View Full Version : Ever get worried about too many 4473's?
Do any of you ever get worried about doing to many 4473's in a short period of time? I did 3 in 7 weeks on long arms? I just get a little worried/paranoid about raising a red flag.
Any of you ever raise a red flag with the state/federal government about this subject? Or have you done even more with no worries-Hakuna matata?
Bailey Guns
09-20-2011, 19:00
No.
redneck122
09-20-2011, 19:03
3 in 7 weeks is nothing. I've done 5 in the last 30 days
3 in 7 weeks is nothing. I've done 5 in the last 30 days
Damn. Were they short and long arms? The guy at Green Mountain Guns said too many handgun purchases can raise a red flag but said nothing about long arms.
No.
IIRC if you buy 2 or more handguns at the same time the FFL has to do a little extra stuff on the 4473.
You may buy as many long guns as you can afford w/o the FFL doing the little extra.
Hopefully BaileyGuns will chime in here and tell us all the real scoop.
ghettodub
09-20-2011, 19:19
Nope. I don't, and as long as you're not doing anything illegal or have something to hide, then why worry
JohnTRourke
09-20-2011, 19:31
I've done 3 in a week a couple times (handguns and longguns)
i'm still here.
sneakerd
09-20-2011, 19:35
Most of my guns are bought "off the books" these days.
Bailey Guns
09-20-2011, 19:40
Dealers are required to complete a Report Of Multiple Sale Or Other Disposition Of Handguns And Revolvers whenever someone buys 2 or more handguns within 5 consecutive business days.
The form has to be submitted to BATFE by close of business on the day the multiple handgun purchase occurs. There's a copy to go to BATFE (I always faxed mine), there's a copy for the dealer's records and there's a copy that's supposed to be sent to the official (state or local LE) that's responsible for maintaining these records on a state level. Colorado has no such requirement for a copy to be sent to anyone.
I've had people buy a lot of guns on a single 4473 and never seen it questioned. The only time the BATFE ever contacted me about a multiple sale form was when I made a mistake on it (like forgot to put in a date or something like that).
I've faxed 4 multiple handgun sale reports in a week on the same person and never even got so much as a phone call from the BATFE.
I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest.
BPTactical
09-20-2011, 19:52
If two or more handguns are purchased by the same party in a 5 day period the FFL must fill out "Report of Multiple Handgun Sales" form and submit it to Virginia.
Multiple long guns are exempt from this process at this time unless you are on the 4 border states.
Dealer retains the 4473 forms for the life of the business. Upon business closing the forms have 30 days to get to Virginia.
NCIC and CBI only know if it is a long gun, handgun or other. They do not get specific information of the actual firearm to the best of my knowledge.
Great-Kazoo
09-20-2011, 20:28
No. Are you?
"After the first one the rest are free." I've filled out enough 4473's I the past I don't worry about it anymore.
Except...
A couple months ago I bought 3 handguns at the same time from the same dealer. A couple days latter I came across a screaming deal on something I've lusted after for years. My background check took overnight on the last one. I did get a little nervous when the check didn't get approved right away.
Singlestack
09-20-2011, 21:32
Even though it sounds like the BATFE doesn't care about multiple purchases, behavior of our government makes me suspicious of them even being aware of that. Comments on homeland security emails about returning veterans being on terrorist watch lists and fast and furious make me think it isn't just paranoia to believe they might have an "extra" interest in "multiple purchasers" in a SHTF or other situation. I'd prefer to stay off the ol radar screen as much as possible.
Singlestack
Great-Kazoo
09-20-2011, 22:37
Even though it sounds like the BATFE doesn't care about multiple purchases, behavior of our government makes me suspicious of them even being aware of that. Comments on homeland security emails about returning veterans being on terrorist watch lists and fast and furious make me think it isn't just paranoia to believe they might have an "extra" interest in "multiple purchasers" in a SHTF or other situation. I'd prefer to stay off the ol radar screen as much as possible.
Singlestack
I have heard the "off radar" comments many times, it's pathetic.
If you own a gun that was ever purchased at a dealer, have a hunter safety card, or ccw, YOU are on someones radar.
can i remove my tinfoil hat now:)
Bailey Guns
09-21-2011, 05:20
After closing my store and sending in all 4473s (several thousand forms) and associated records (bound books, etc...) I occasionally received calls from ATF for over a year later requesting a trace on a particular gun. A freakin' year after sending them the records.
I told one lady who called me that it had been several months since I sent in my records. She said, "You've already sent them in to the out of business section?" I tod her that was correct. She said, "Well, I guess I can close this trace. I'll never find that form now."
Frankly, your gun purchase info is probably pretty safe if the .gov has it.
I know the day the ATF comes to knock on my door I have nothing to fear... I don't live anywhere like Ruby Ridge or something so I should be fine. If you don't have a reason to fear the gov coming after then you should be fine. That is until Obeyme tries to make it illegal to own more than 4 guns.
I know the day the ATF comes to knock on my door I have nothing to fear... I don't live anywhere like Ruby Ridge or something so I should be fine. If you don't have a reason to fear the gov coming after then you should be fine. That is until Obeyme tries to make it illegal to own more than 4 guns.
Ever notice that a ranch becomes a "compound" just about the time the FBI surrounds it and the news helicopters start circling?
Ever notice that a ranch becomes a "compound" just about the time the FBI surrounds it and the news helicopters start circling?
I have noticed that... Good watch on a supreme example of a botch is Arlington Road with Tim Robbins and Jeff Bridges. Makes you think though, how many of us are on a list at either BATFE or FBI??
Donning tin foil hat now!
No. Are you?
Just a ? I had. Something that was going thru my mind. It is like one of those things where a cop pulls you over and wants to search your car. Just because I don't have nothing to hide don't mean I want or will give him consent to search.
Just a ? I had. Something that was going thru my mind. It is like one of those things where a cop pulls you over and wants to search your car. Just because I don't have nothing to hide don't mean I want or will give him consent to search.
Just remember these words and you can't go wrong: "I refuse to consent to any illegal searches. If you have a warrant I will fully cooperate."
Bailey Guns
09-21-2011, 17:32
Most people don't know what constitutes a legal search. And, no, you don't need a warrant for many types of searches...especially of cars.
Most people don't know what constitutes a legal search. And, no, you don't need a warrant for many types of searches...especially of cars.
I would go as far as to say in today's America you really don't need warrants for any searches unless you have money and/or power for high end lawyers. The average working joe can't afford the O.J.'s Dream Team to defend from government intrusion whether legal or not.
Bailey Guns
09-21-2011, 18:32
I would go as far as to say in today's America you really don't need warrants for any searches unless you have money and/or power for high end lawyers. The average working joe can't afford the O.J.'s Dream Team to defend from government intrusion whether legal or not.
I disagree. All types of cases are thrown out every day due to illegal searches. Doesn't have to be "Dream Team" lawyers. A bad search is a bad search and, despite what you may think, courts really do frown upon them.
It's been my experience that courts give lots of leeway to err on the side of the defendant when an illegal search is charged.
Of course, sometimes the search is legal and legitimate. Courts obviously recognize that, too.
Knowing search and seizure laws inside and out can really make an officer's job a lot easier.
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