My Thoughts

[Danimal]

Deleted

[Ronin13]

I agree with you, but it seems the real problem- and it was very clear in the '08 election- is not so much lazyness or even stupidity, but the media and its bias. Look at how little bashing on Obama the media did (actually I think it was just about nothing), but oh no, here comes that loony governor from Alaska with her funny talk and crazy ideals! See the difference? If the media begins this election season (I'm thinking right after the primaries) like last time around, I'm going to have a shitfit and call them on everything! How come you won't talk about what Obama has done wrong? How come republicans are so bad in your eyes? What happened to reporting the facts, not swaying them? And the like. Millions of Americans watch the news and media outlets and if they won't report truthfully, accurately, or fairly then I'm going to have to say that we should just do away with the two party system if they really want no more arguing in congress, only shed bad light on one side, and put the dems up on some holy pedestal.

[Milt]

The productive class (people gainfully employed in the PRIVATE sector) is outnumbered by the parasitic class (government contractors of all types and sizes, the banking and Wall street establishments, 'welfare' recipients, other transfer payment recipients and government employees at all levels). Attempting to convince the parasites to back off through non-Clausewitzian political methods cannot possibly succeed - they are now the majority of the electorate.

Insanity is doing the same thing as before while expecting different results. To have any hope of regaining our birthright of Liberty, we need to focus on potentially more efficacious methods than the current rigged game (the mainstream political process)...

"If voting could change things, it would be illegal." - L. Niel Smith

[Danimal]

Deleted

[hatidua]

The pendulum swings both directions as past elections has proven. When Clinton got a second term, many shook their heads in disbelief, -except those who voted for him. When W got a second term, many shook their heads in disbelief, -except those who voted for him.

Each side thinks the other has their collective heads buried in the sand come election day. What is unfortunate is when a person, having voted for someone, becomes indefinitely blind to that elected official's faults, and those individuals exist on both sides of the fence.

[roberth]

The pendulum swings both directions as past elections has proven. When Clinton got a second term, many shook their heads in disbelief, -except those who voted for him. When W got a second term, many shook their heads in disbelief, -except those who voted for him.

Each side thinks the other has their collective heads buried in the sand come election day. What is unfortunate is when a person, having voted for someone, becomes indefinitely blind to that elected official's faults, and those individuals exist on both sides of the fence.

This happens on both sides of the fence.

This is the reason the GOP went with McLame the last time and the reason the GOP will probably pick Perry or Romney this time. They refuse to make the break for real change.

[Busta Prima]

and government employees at all levels

WTF? That's pretty offensive and stupid. You shouldn't even be allowed to vote.

[Milt]

"WTF? That's pretty offensive..."

You find it offensive - why is that? Are you a tax eater?


"...and stupid."

Since you think I'm stupid, please enlighten me as to why government employees do not fit in with the rest of the tax consumers in my original list.

Consider that, in the private sector, people VOLUNTARILY pay for goods and services; in the 'public' sector, people are FORCED through taxation to pay for things they do not want. Government employees are paid through taxation; they proved no services for which people would voluntarily pay. Thus they fit into the general category of net tax consumers with all the rest in my original list. Taxation is morally indistinguishable from robbery, so that makes them either parasites or thieves.


"You shouldn't even be allowed to vote."

Don't worry, I do not vote since I refuse to provide the sanction of the victim nor play rigged games. As to the utility of voting, L. Niel Smith said it best: "If voting could change things, it would be illegal."

[roberth]

Go get 'em Milt.[Beer]

Some government employees are necessary, Supreme Court, military, legislators, I probably missed a couple.

Unnecessary government employees ie parasites would include anyone working for the IRS, EPA, FAA, FCC, Dept. of Ed, Dept. of Interior, Dept. of Energy, and I'm going to miss more than a few here. All this work should be privatized, eliminated or handled at the state or county level depending on the job.

[rmarmory]

unless you work for the irs then its great! J/K

[jerrymrc]

"WTF? That's pretty offensive..."

You find it offensive - why is that? Are you a tax eater?


"...and stupid."

Since you think I'm stupid, please enlighten me as to why government employees do not fit in with the rest of the tax consumers in my original list.

Consider that, in the private sector, people VOLUNTARILY pay for goods and services; in the 'public' sector, people are FORCED through taxation to pay for things they do not want. Government employees are paid through taxation; they proved no services for which people would voluntarily pay. Thus they fit into the general category of net tax consumers with all the rest in my original list. Taxation is morally indistinguishable from robbery, so that makes them either parasites or thieves.


"You shouldn't even be allowed to vote."

Don't worry, I do not vote since I refuse to provide the sanction of the victim nor play rigged games. As to the utility of voting, L. Niel Smith said it best: "If voting could change things, it would be illegal."

I have done this many times before. Not going to do it this time. PM me and I will explain some of the Govt side. I am tired of everyone thinking that all the Govt employees are nothing but the lowlife scum sucking POS crap.

Most of us in the DOD are Ex-Military and do our best to conserve your tax dollars. You have 24 hours.

[Milt]

jerrymrc,

Your character is NOT the subject of my comments/observations. I daresay that many government employees are sincerely trying to give good value for their pay and are otherwise quite honorable people. In many cases, the source of their income has simply received little or no consideration. After all, just about everyone is indoctrinated (in government schools) from a very early age with the idea that taxes are somehow acceptable.

This does not change the fact that taxation is morally equivalent to robbery, in that, in both cases, wealth is extracted from the victim under threat of death or serious bodily injury. This equivalence might be uncomfortable for a government employee to contemplate, since the only honorable thing to do after this realization is to quit government service. Faced with such an uncomfortable choice, denial or rationalizations and attempts to 'justify' the continuation of the institution of taxation are the usual and natural (if intellectually dishonest) response.

Earlier, I asked anyone who feels that there is a substantial difference (other than the size of the criminal organization responsible) between taxation and robbery to offer proof of that difference. So far, no one has come forward with a rational argument and specified the number of participants required to convert what most would define as robbery (if done by a few, as in my previous example) into 'legitimate' taxation. If you care to offer proof that I am in error on this matter, I will give it careful consideration.

I am posting the above on the forum, but will, if you desire, keep all future PMs confidential.

[Milt]

The Ginsue,

"they proved [don't you mean provide?]"

You got me on that typo...


"[You wouldn't voluntarily pay for fire protection, for a strong military to keep other nations/groups from subjugating you, for roads & bridges which you surely enjoy the use of daily, for maintained parks and lakes which you can enjoy, essential infrastructure for living? None of this - LIAR!]"

Actually, there are better ways to accomplish all these things and those solutions do NOT require that we institute criminal behavior.



"[No, FAIR taxation is the membe(r)ship cost of belonging to a city, county, state, or nation. It's only when taxation exceeds the FAIR standard that it becomes morally unjust.]"

Please prove the above assertion and define 'FAIR'.


"You may or may not be stupid, but you are certainly a fool."

Nice to meet such open minded and considerate folks...

But, seriously, even the novice debater knows that ad-hominem attacks are the tactics of one who has no logical rebuttal to his opponent's argument.

[theGinsue]

You've apparently got it all worked out. Just let me know when you get that nomination for public office so I can vote for you if I'm to be one of your constituents.


Nice to meet such open minded and considerate folks...

But, seriously, even the novice debater knows that ad-hominem attacks are the tactics of one who has no logical rebuttal to his opponent's argument.

You include individuals who epitimize the idea of "public servant" as "parasitic class" and you fail to see that such comments are "ad-hominem attacks". As far as "open minded", naw, that's not me. "Open minded" is just another catch phrase of the liberal community - I don't dance to that music. "Considerate folks"? Considerate? After the nastiness and hateful drivel you choose to spit out? You've received far too much consideration from me. It's clear to me that you truly have no idea how things work if you believe that eliminating government to be replaced with so entirely with the "public sector" would be better for citizens. You couldn't afford the necessities if this were the case. I wish to modify my previous comment. You are both naive AND a fool.

You seem to thrive on offending individuals here and doing so to the mod/admin staff is just another act of foolishness.

I've read enough of your filth.

Since your initial comments have so offended me I advise that you self-censor or I'll happily do so for you. Starting now.

[NitroxBoss]

Government employees are paid through taxation; they proved no services for which people would voluntarily pay. Thus they fit into the general category of net tax consumers with all the rest in my original list.


This is just insane, you wouldn't pay for the service of having your shit taken away from your dwelling? You wouldn't pay someone to make a road on your property? NO ONE has ever paid for private security? Is there waste? of course there is but this is just flawed logic.




Don't worry, I do not vote

Thank you!

All taxes are voluntary, you don't want to pay them get the fuck out. You are free to leave and thus not be robbed, there is what makes the difference.

To all on this board that have served, Police - Fire - Armed Forces thank you for your service and you have my respect and appreciation.

[Milt]

"Just what do YOU do for a living?"

Sorry, I overlooked that one. I do whatever others value sufficiently to VOLUNTARILY pay me to do. At this time, I create marketing materials for private businesses and when that activity is slow, I build things and repair things.


"What sort of contribution have YOU provided to this nation which (I assume, else you'd have moved to another country a long time ago) you profess to love?"

I try to promote and preserve our legacy of Liberty in any way that I can. Unfortunately, the government has strayed so far from the 'Chains of the Constitution' (by which it was supposed to be bound) that it has lost any claim to legitimacy. I do love my country, because it is the ONLY one in man's history that was founded to protect the Liberty of its sovereign citizens.

To answer the implied (by the capitalization of "YOU") claim, "I did more than you did" - IF you honored your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States by obeying only strictly Constitutional orders and disobeying all that were not strictly Constitutional, you have my thanks. If that was not the case, then you have contributed, either by action or omission, to the erosion of that Liberty the protection of which is the sole reason (read the Declaration of Independence) for the existence of any legitimate post-revolutionary American government.

[Milt]

"All taxes are voluntary, you don't want to pay them get the fuck out. You are free to leave and thus not be robbed, there is what makes the difference."

I would really like to see you tuck your house under your arm and "get the fuck out", while not paying the taxes on it; let me know how far you get...

[theGinsue]

"What sort of contribution have YOU provided to this nation which (I assume, else you'd have moved to another country a long time ago) you profess to love?"

I try to promote and preserve our legacy of Liberty in any way that I can. Unfortunately, the government has strayed so far from the 'Chains of the Constitution' (by which it was supposed to be bound) that it has lost any claim to legitimacy. I do love my country, because it is the ONLY one in man's history that was founded to protect the Liberty of its sovereign citizens.

So, in other words you've done NOTHING other than run your mouth? I thought as much. Actions, not mere words, won the Liberty you feel is completely lost. You're not going to win it back by flapping your gums either.

[jerrymrc]

I am going to close this for now. After my appointment in a few hours I will revisit this.

As someone that deals with S&P issues I have seen many fight the system about paying taxes. It is never a good outcome. [Bang]