How to get your Class III

[JDBEJDBE]

Hey all - just wondering what the process is for getting your class III? I know it's probably easier than it sounds from all of the BS on the government sites, but someone who can give me some hints/tips on exactly what I need (doc wise) and the process would be a great help.

Thanks for any info you have...

[USMC88-93]

Find a suppressor, Short barreled rifle, machine gun that you want to purchase. Purchase the item and submit the paperwork you receive (2 copies of BATFE Form 4, 2 copies of finger print cards, etc...) to your local Chief law enforcement officer for his signature. Get those forms back then mail them to the BATF for approval. The place you purchased the item from will receive one copy of the form 4 back with the tax stamp attached. At that point you can take possession of the item you purchased.

My suggestion is you find a local seller of NFA items and seek their advice. Examples of which are Machine Gun Tours in Lakewood of Jensen Arms in Loveland.

There is also the Trust route.

[DeusExMachina]

I think he means Class III dealer license.

[USMC88-93]

I think he means Class III dealer license.

I highly doubt that.

[Circuits]

There's no such thing as a class 3 license.

Individual firearm owners pay a one time tax of $200 per item, in most cases.

FFL dealers who also deal in machineguns pay a yearly special occupational tax (SOT) - which for a dealer is a Class 3 SOT. A manufacturer is usually a Class 2 SOT, while an importer would be a Class 1 SOT.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

1) Call BATFE and ask fora FORM 1 package.

The number is 1-304-616-4500.

2) You will get 2 sets of Form 1's, complete ALL sections, take your FBI fingerprint cards to your local Sheriffs office so you can be fingerprinted.

3) Get your lower reciever BEFORE you fill out the forms so you know what the serial number is and so you can write it on the Form 1's.

4) Youre also going to need TWO passport photos attached to the Form 1's. They take them at walgreens for around $10.00


5) Drop the paperwork off at the sheriffs office for approval. You may have to set up an appointment for your CLEO signoff. It takes anywhere from a few days up to a week.

Or you can go the TRUST route.
Send off the packet after CLEO signoff and wait up to 5 months from PENDING date

[JohnnyEgo]

I created a Trust a couple years back. Where I came from, the local sherriff would not sign off for individual class III ownership. The trust route allowed me to work around this obstacle, and also made it faster for me to fill out the paperwork.

I purchase the items, assign them to the trust, submit my trust, two copies of the form, and a copy of the Citizenship form, along with a $200 check to BATFE. Then you wait. Current approval time is approximately 4 months.

It's a little paperwork and a lot of patience. Not hard to do at all.

http://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/ars/morears2/ubrgna6a.jpg

[DANGERTASTIC!]

[quote=JohnnyEgo;431530] Then you wait. Current approval time is approximately 4 months.



When did YOU send your stamp off?

Last I checked, it was almost 5 from pending date.

As of June 1st, they changed examiners, the examiners are assigned specific states instead of alphabetic names. I think they are behind from the change


I wouldnt go the trust route if your CLEO will sign off. Call the local Sheriffs office and ask if he signs off on tax stamps

[JohnnyEgo]

My last stamp came back about two months ago for a short barreled shotgun. Your times may vary, I suppose.

[Rooskibar03]

My last stamp came back about two months ago for a short barreled shotgun. Your times may vary, I suppose.

Since this is somewhat on topic I've got a queation. So what if you already have a weapon and what to convert to an SBR. What is is the process for getting a tax stamp on someone you already own?

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Since this is somewhat on topic I've got a queation. So what if you already have a weapon and what to convert to an SBR. What is is the process for getting a tax stamp on someone you already own?

Its the same thing, except you already posses the lower you intend to SBR.

You simply write the serial number on your Form 1's

[DANGERTASTIC!]

My last stamp came back about two months ago for a short barreled shotgun. Your times may vary, I suppose.


2 months ago???

And what does that mean? When did you send it? When was the check cashed? When did it go pending???

2 months ago means nothing when we dont know when it was sent.

Its usually from sent, to pending, pending to approval or arrival.

But since you say 2 months, Im guessing you sent it around march

[Rooskibar03]

Its the same thing, except you already posses the lower you intend to SBR.

You simply write the serial number on your Form 1's

Follow up question I should have asked first. So does one have the barrel shortened first and then submit or vice versa? Will a gunsmith even shorten the barrel without a stamp?

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Follow up question I should have asked first. So does one have the barrel shortened first and then submit or vice versa? Will a gunsmith even shorten the barrel without a stamp?


You complete paperwork and the CLEO sign off FIRST.

The other way around is intent to manufacture and its 10 years in Fed prison and up to $250,000 fine.

While a gunsmith can shorten the barrel, I wouldnt recommend it. You can run into all kinds of problems shortening barrels.

FTF's/ FTE's, last round lockback, Short stroking.

I have seen it a few times.

I would recommend just buying an upper

[Rooskibar03]

FTF's/ FTE's, last round lockback, Short stroking.

I have seen it a few times.

I would recommend just buying an upper


Actually I'm thinking of a shorter barrel for the Saiga 12. But I think I'll work on other things before I think about cutting down the barrel.

[JohnnyEgo]

2 months ago???

And what does that mean? When did you send it? When was the check cashed? When did it go pending???

2 months ago means nothing when we dont know when it was sent.

Its usually from sent, to pending, pending to approval or arrival.

But since you say 2 months, Im guessing you sent it around march

I am new here, and don't know you, but you seem kind of combative.
I sent my paperwork in at the end of April. I got my stamp in back in early August, around the 2nd as I recall. My examiner was Ms. Santamaria.

I will submit that you may well be correct. The wait these days may be five months instead of four. Congratulations on your internet victory over me. If your hostility was unintended or misinterpreted, then I apologize.

--
Moving on. You don't get to assemble your short barrelled rifle until you have your approved form back. There are a lot of folks with a lot of theories on what constitutes 'constructive intent', but it is not a legal battle I'd wish to involve myself in. So the simplest solution is to wait until the form is approved to take a saw to anything.

With short barrelled ARs, it's a little different. You can legally possess a pistol AR built on a virgin receiver, and that is the route many people go through. There are other tactics as well, but again, I wish to avoid any constructive intent issues.

NFA is expensive and requires patience, but is totally worth it.

http://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/ars/morears2/spr01.jpg

[DANGERTASTIC!]

I am new here, and don't know you, but you seem kind of combative.
I sent my paperwork in at the end of April. I got my stamp in back in early August, around the 2nd as I recall. My examiner was Ms. Santamaria.

I will submit that you may well be correct. The wait these days may be five months instead of four. Congratulations on your internet victory over me. If your hostility was unintended or misinterpreted, then I apologize.

http://www.johnnyego.com/firearms/ars/morears2/spr01.jpg


This isnt a contest buddy. Im not combative. Youre reading my text wrong and youre taking it to heart.

You came in giving advice and corrected me on how long a tax stamp return takes, then you expect us to be mind readers on when you sent it off?

A victory over you? Im not 15 man. If you want to talk like that then fine, think what you want. These guys know me, thats not my style. I get along just fine.

It seems like youre trying to discredit everything Im saying but youre replies are exactly the same give or take something added, so I apologize if I offended YOU.

Anyways youre right, lets move along.

Water under the bridge man

[DeusExMachina]

It took 4 months for my suppressor. And I submitted it in the middle of Gem Tax season.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Actually I'm thinking of a shorter barrel for the Saiga 12. But I think I'll work on other things before I think about cutting down the barrel.

I have a friend thats planning on shortening his saiga. I think 14".

I would love to have a 14" Rem 870.

My plans are a couple supressors, then maybe a shotty.

You should do it man.

[Great-Kazoo]

Since this is somewhat on topic I've got a queation. So what if you already have a weapon and what to convert to an SBR. What is is the process for getting a tax stamp on someone you already own?

See post #6 for form 1

[Great-Kazoo]

Follow up question I should have asked first. So does one have the barrel shortened first and then submit or vice versa? Will a gunsmith even shorten the barrel without a stamp?

Yes. Providing you are not bringing the firearm in to them for shortening. The burden of responsibility is on you. Anyone can get a bbl turned down, rethreaded and install on a firearm. PROVIDING you stay with in the LEGAL overall size for your gun.
Example, you can turn a pistol in to a long gun, then return it to pistol config, BUT NO rifle in to pistol that is a SBR. The expenses incurred to illegally assemble a SBR or other NFA item is not worth the hassle or fed vs wait time for your tax stamp.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

[Great-Kazoo]

Then you wait. Current approval time is approximately 4 months.

I wouldnt go the trust route if your CLEO will sign off. Call the local Sheriffs office and ask if he signs off on tax stamps


Yes and No. IF you are the sole person/not married etc a LEO sign off works. However if you are like me having a spouse and offspring, the trust way frees up the NFA item allowing it to be possessed by someone listed on the trust (correct me if i am wrong on the exact wording). This way if you pass on before them, they do not have to pay another $200 tax per item or deal with wait time.
Contact bear arms (www.beararmscolorado.com) they are NFA dealers. Or contact the ATF website , MGT, jensens for assistence.
FWIW. if buying another NFA item bear arms and MGT do not charge you a transfer tax on NEW NFA items. Denver bullet? is also a GTG guy and NFA dealer.

[JohnnyEgo]

Think you might have mangled that quote a little, Jim. The second line is not mine. I am a big fan of the trust, as that is what all my NFA items are under. I think it gives you a lot of advantages, amongst them the ones you mentioned.

[DeusExMachina]

Trust is the way to go.

[TriggerHappy]

[quote=JohnnyEgo;431530] Then you wait. Current approval time is approximately 4 months.



When did YOU send your stamp off?

Last I checked, it was almost 5 from pending date.

As of June 1st, they changed examiners, the examiners are assigned specific states instead of alphabetic names. I think they are behind from the change


I wouldnt go the trust route if your CLEO will sign off. Call the local Sheriffs office and ask if he signs off on tax stamps

I disagree, go trust or LLC, my opinion the local LEO doesnt need to know what is in my safe. If you still have my number give me a call and I can give you some ideas. I went LLC, its easy and good standing cost $10 per year. NO fingerprints, NO LEO signoff garbage. Just your toys.

BTW, I recieved my last FORM 4 on August 21st, exactly 4 months since the BATFE received it, and began to process.

[islandermyk]

[QUOTE=DANGERTASTIC!;431532]

I disagree, go trust or LLC, my opinion the local LEO doesnt need to know what is in my safe. If you still have my number give me a call and I can give you some ideas. I went LLC, its easy and good standing cost $10 per year. NO fingerprints, NO LEO signoff garbage. Just your toys.

BTW, I recieved my last FORM 4 on August 21st, exactly 4 months since the BATFE received it, and began to process.

+1 Thanks Trigger!

this would be the route I go to SBR my HK94 clone[Beer]

[spyder]

[quote=DANGERTASTIC!;431532]

I disagree, go trust or LLC, my opinion the local LEO doesnt need to know what is in my safe. If you still have my number give me a call and I can give you some ideas. I went LLC, its easy and good standing cost $10 per year. NO fingerprints, NO LEO signoff garbage. Just your toys.

BTW, I recieved my last FORM 4 on August 21st, exactly 4 months since the BATFE received it, and began to process.
Wait, what all does the trust cut out of the normal bs?

[Great-Kazoo]

Think you might have mangled that quote a little, Jim. The second line is not mine. I am a big fan of the trust, as that is what all my NFA items are under. I think it gives you a lot of advantages, amongst them the ones you mentioned.

yeah i seem to be "misquoting" , looks like my next job is for the media. Anyway here is a link to NFA lawyers, something Zak steered me to in another post, somewhere on line

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

[SAnd]

[quote=TriggerHappy;432247]
Wait, what all does the trust cut out of the normal bs?
You don't need the Law Enforcement Certification or fingerprint cards. The law enforcement sign off is difficult or impossible to get in some jurisdictions.

All you send in is 2 copies of the Form (1 or 4), Certificate of Complience, a copy of your Trust, and your check.

You don't need the photographs, fingerprint cards, or the law enforcment signiture.

[Seamonkey]

+1 for the trust

As mentioned, others can be named on the trust and can legally be in possession or have access to the items.

[aloharover]

Regarding NFA Branch response times, it all depends on who your inspector is.
I know they recently changed them around, but it is still based on your name. The inspectors are assigned a range of letters. last name begins with A-C then Inspector Doe reviews, D-F Inspector Smith, etc.
edit: Someone sent me the list, the new distribution is by state. However my recent forms have been signed by Shipman.
NFA Examiner Assignment Distribution (effective July 2011)

Nicole Dudash — IL, IN, OH, PA
Chris Farris — AK, CT, MA, ME, MI, NH, RI, VT
Ann Feltner — AZ, CA, NM, NV
Jason Frushour — CO, MT, ND, SD, UT, WI, WY
Sara Jones — LA, TX
Albert Lamberger — AL, FL, TN
Dana Pickles — DE, KY, MD, NC, NJ, NY, VA, WV
Suzanne Santamaria — GA, SC
William Shipman — AR, HI, IA, KS, MN, MO, MS, NE, OK
Sandra Snook —ID, OR, WA.

I saw the chart recently but can not seem to find it now.
Prior to the shuffle my last inspector took 120-150 days per form 4. The current guy is taking right around 90 days. But for what ever reason, the form 4s sent in in March and April we got back in 60 days.

Anyway each inspector seems to have their own timing. A blanket statement "NFAs take 4 months" is generalized. Best way to track it is by inspector name.
I am sorry if Snook is your inspector ;)

[dogtired]

Just to clarify if you die and leave your NFA stuff to people or your heir can transfer it to themselves via form 5, NO fee.

[SAnd]

Just to clarify if you die and leave your NFA stuff to people or your heir can transfer it to themselves via form 5, NO fee.

Short answer is yes.

To be picky it's a tax not a fee.

Here are the details from the ATF

A 1 page press release about it-
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/1999/09/090599-openletter-nfa-estate-transfers.html

The National Firearms Act Handbook has a section about it -9.5.3-
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/
If you download the pdf handbook it is pdf file page 72, or handbook page 60.

I generally recommend downloading the NFA Handbook to anyone interested in NFA stuff. It is the official ATF position on NFA laws, regulations, and procedures. It isn't the internet version of laws. It covers a lot of stuff and has copies of the actual laws and regulations.

There are a couple threads on the Subguns NFA board about this now-
when owner dies-
http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=765671

Before you die-
http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=765713

[hatidua]

One substantial problem with these NFA items that nobody seems to have brought up so far is their similarity to peanuts: once you have one, it's tough to stop at just one.

[dogtired]

To be picky it's a tax not a fee.


[/URL]

Crap, my old English teacher is posting here! [Beer]

[Great-Kazoo]

One substantial problem with these NFA items that nobody seems to have brought up so far is their similarity to peanuts: once you have one, it's tough to stop at just one.

Potato (e) [for the quayle fans]. They are like Potato Chips

[SAnd]

Potato (e) [for the quayle fans]. They are like Potato Chips

I've tried keeping them seperated so they wouldn't breed. That didn't work either.

[KevDen2005]

1) Call BATFE and ask fora FORM 1 package.

The number is 1-304-616-4500.

2) You will get 2 sets of Form 1's, complete ALL sections, take your FBI fingerprint cards to your local Sheriffs office so you can be fingerprinted.

3) Get your lower reciever BEFORE you fill out the forms so you know what the serial number is and so you can write it on the Form 1's.

4) Youre also going to need TWO passport photos attached to the Form 1's. They take them at walgreens for around $10.00


5) Drop the paperwork off at the sheriffs office for approval. You may have to set up an appointment for your CLEO signoff. It takes anywhere from a few days up to a week.

Or you can go the TRUST route.
Send off the packet after CLEO signoff and wait up to 5 months from PENDING date

Thank you for the easy instructions.

I am starting the process to do an SBR. I'm in the process of starting a trust. I want to make sure of something first. Do I/Should I purchase the lower I plan on using for my SBR first and I can have that lower in my possession while waiting for approval (as long as I don't actually attach a short barrel to it)? And what does my lower have to be marked with?

[Great-Kazoo]

Thank you for the easy instructions.

I am starting the process to do an SBR. I'm in the process of starting a trust. I want to make sure of something first. Do I/Should I purchase the lower I plan on using for my SBR first and I can have that lower in my possession while waiting for approval (as long as I don't actually attach a short barrel to it)? And what does my lower have to be marked with?


Name of trust. You need a lower or what ever it is you're F1 for the serial number. It's not a NFA item till you attach the less then 16" barrel, or 18 for a shot gun.

[brutal]

Thank you for the easy instructions.

I am starting the process to do an SBR. I'm in the process of starting a trust. I want to make sure of something first. Do I/Should I purchase the lower I plan on using for my SBR first and I can have that lower in my possession while waiting for approval (as long as I don't actually attach a short barrel to it)? And what does my lower have to be marked with?

If you're doing a trust, you don't need CLEO signoff.

After you've established trust, sign up for e-forms and file online. If you haven't purchased the lower, buy it in the name of the trust and do the BGC as trustee. If you already possess the lower, you will have to transfer it to the trust and run a BGC on yourself as trustee. Yea, really.

Trust isn't going to do much for you after July 16. You'll then need to follow the fingerprint and photo route, but still no CLEO signoff. BATF will NOTIFY your local CLEO.

[Great-Kazoo]

If you're doing a trust, you don't need CLEO signoff.

After you've established trust, sign up for e-forms and file online. If you haven't purchased the lower, buy it in the name of the trust and do the BGC as trustee. If you already possess the lower, you will have to transfer it to the trust and run a BGC on yourself as trustee. Yea, really.

Trust isn't going to do much for you after July 16. You'll then need to follow the fingerprint and photo route, but still no CLEO signoff. BATF will NOTIFY your local CLEO.


If you haven't read my thread here. You need to do so. When 41P went to F it changed a lot of things. Like responsible Person, etc.
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/154777-NFA-41-F-%28FINAL%29-UPDATES-amp-INFO

Not true, in the current 41F it's your job to notify the CLEO
Each applicant is to provide notification of the proposed making and possession of the firearm described on this Form 1 by providing a copy of the completed form to the chief law enforcement officer in the agency identified below



https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/application-make-and-register-firearm/download

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-omb-11404/download

(https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-omb-11404/download)

[brutal]

Thanks for the info, I guess I have some light reading to do.