CCW and Businesses That Don't Allow Firearms

[keylay31]

From my reading of the Colorado statute, 18-12-214 states in summary
1) You can carry everywhere except:
2) Where prohibited by federal law
3) Onto school property
4) Electronic weapons screening

My concern is part 5):
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

As we all know, there are several places that don't allow firearms: Denver Zoo, Convention Center, my place of employment...

What the law does not seem to address is what the penalty would be for carrying in those places. They don't seem to be laid out specifically in the law. Would it be a illegal? Would you simply be thrown out?

[mcantar18c]

You're legally allowed to carry in "no carry" and "gun free zones."
However, if the head honcho (owner, manager, person in charge) of the property asks you to leave, you have to leave. You could go put your weapon in your car and return to finish your dinner or whatever, or just leave and not go back. If you refuse to leave, however, you can be charged with trespassing, though I'm pretty sure it won't have any bearing on your right to carry (no revocation of permit or anything).

That said, if you're CCing and they ask you to leave because of it... you're doin it wrong.

[Irving]

It's not illegal, just against the private property owner's policy.

[keylay31]

Obviously I wouldn't carry at work because I don't want to be fired, but I did walk through the Colorado Convention Center this week and only noticed the no firearms sign on the door on my way out. Good thing I wasn't carrying I told myself. But it sounds like I would have just been thrown out?

Doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Do you typically ignore these warnings?

[mcantar18c]

Doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Do you typically ignore these warnings?

Most places that have "no guns" signs, I just avoid. They won't get any of my money. But for the places I can't avoid (like BWW... can't bring myself to turn my back to them)... yeah, I just ignore em. Its just liberal bullsh*t that doesn't even hold any legal standing. My current employer has a strict "no weapons" policy, to include firearms, knives, etc. If they only knew...

[kwando]

Ok i have a good one... similar topic

Employee is a LEO on the weekends. Moonlights on the weekday. Not a secret, people know. He is a stand up employee for several years. One day word gets out that he was released for bringing a firearm to work.

He is a LEO, if he was in uniform, would he have been fired/released/let-go/etc?

[Irving]

Doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Do you typically ignore these warnings?

Yes, in Colorado absolutely. SOME states, if the signage is printed in such a manner as specified by law, the signs carry legal weight. Not in Colorado though.

Also, don't ignore a "No open carry" sign. Those are usually put up by the city, in areas that they control (public parks) and are more than just a private property owner's policy.

[Byte Stryke]

if you read most of the signage it is misleading, Zoo as an example, says no open carry.
I CCW into Denver Zoo whenever I go.

http://www.rmgo.org/copy-of-gun-law-faqs/concealed-carry-permits

If I have a concealed carry permit, can I carry at places like the Denver Zoo (which has a sign indicating "No Guns")? Yes.

This is another case of an anti-gun city posting a deceptive sign. But state law (18-12-214, see above) gives them no choice. RMGO Executive Director Dudley Brown confronted the Denver Zoo on this sign, and after viewing their written policy (which is not displayed in public, and which states in very small writing that permit holders are allowed to carry), promptly carried (much to the dismay of security personnel).


This deceptive "No Guns" sign at the Denver Zoo (a publicly owned facility) is yet another attempt to fool gun owners into going defenseless. However, their written policy (which isn't displayed, and is available only upon request) recognizes they have no choice but to allow permit holders.

[keylay31]

Most places that have "no guns" signs, I just avoid. They won't get any of my money. But for the places I can't avoid (like BWW... can't bring myself to turn my back to them)... yeah, I just ignore em. Its just liberal bullsh*t that doesn't even hold any legal standing.

Then why would section 5 even be in the law if its not part of the law?

[keylay31]

BTW, from RMGO's CCW FAQ:

Can I carry at work (a private entity, not a government job), even if my employer/supervisor has banned guns on the property? NO.
18-12-214 Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

[SouthPaw]

if you read most of the signage it is misleading, Zoo as an example, says no open carry.
I CCW into Denver Zoo whenever I go.

http://www.rmgo.org/copy-of-gun-law-faqs/concealed-carry-permits

Last time I was there I carried. The only sign I saw was at the ticket stand which was about a 3x3 sticker that said no firearms. If anybody asked I was planning on just telling them my girlfriend bought the tickets and I never saw it. I looked around and saw no other signs.

Plus if I have to go around looking for a sign I would not consider that "clearly posted."

[TFOGGER]

Ok i have a good one... similar topic

Employee is a LEO on the weekends. Moonlights on the weekday. Not a secret, people know. He is a stand up employee for several years. One day word gets out that he was released for bringing a firearm to work.

He is a LEO, if he was in uniform, would he have been fired/released/let-go/etc?

Yes. The short version is that an employer can fire you for any reason(or no reason), at any time, in Colorado. If he was not an LEO in the performance of his duties at the time, regardless of his uniform, he can be fired for a violation of company policy (which would affect his ability to file for unemployment).

[TFOGGER]

Private property owners can make any policy they want concerning weapons. Failure to abide by those rules will result in you being asked to leave. It does not have to be posted; it does not have to be a manager to ask you to leave; any representative of the establishment can do it. Failure to comply may result in charges of Trespass in the 3rd degree(misdemeanor).

Publicly owned venues can disallow the carriage of weapons, even by CHP holders, provided they follow the letter of the law, to wit:

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:








(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;








(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and








(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

Cities may enact ordinances barring open carry in city facilities (including parks and open space), but the current CCW laws prevent them from restricting concealed carry unless the above requirements are met.

So, as Stuving said, most of the "No Weapons" signs are bullspit.

[mcantar18c]

Then why would section 5 even be in the law if its not part of the law?
Its basically saying what we've all said here. You can carry wherever you want (other than where you can't), but if on private property and asked to leave, you must do so. Their property, their castle, their rules.


BTW, from RMGO's CCW FAQ:

Can I carry at work (a private entity, not a government job), even if my employer/supervisor has banned guns on the property? NO.
18-12-214 Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.
Big boy rules. They could fire me on the spot if they discovered any of the weapons I carry. Fine with me, as the chances they'll find out I'm armed without me showing them are slim to none, and the only way I'd show them is if I'm forced to use a weapon in which case I'd rather lose my job than my life. That said, I know the potential consequences of my actions and am prepared to face them if I need to.
You choose who and what you let rule you. Choose wisely.

[Busta Prima]

Then why would section 5 even be in the law if its not part of the law?

If it wasn't mentioned in the law the way it is, then the private entity would have NO right to set the policy and would essentially be forced to allow CCW. That just sets the stage for a giant legal battle we would be better off avoiding. Grey areas can be good sometimes.

Just go with the majority here and ignore those signs.

[TFOGGER]

If it wasn't mentioned in the law the way it is, then the private entity would have NO right to set the policy and would essentially be forced to allow CCW. That just sets the stage for a giant legal battle we would be better off avoiding. Grey areas can be good sometimes.

Just go with the majority here and ignore those signs.

I'll add that IF you "happen to miss" the signs, and IF you are discovered to be armed, and IF they ask you to leave, do so, with out hesitation or argument, as that can only end badly. The time to dispute their policy is either prior to entering the establishment, or after leaving. Contact the policy makers, not the employees.

[Monky]

Doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Do you typically ignore these warnings?

Unless they have a metal detector they're not going to know I'm carrying... concealed is concealed and the signs hold no weight.


I'll add that IF you "happen to miss" the signs, and IF you are discovered to be armed, and IF they ask you to leave, do so, with out hesitation or argument, as that can only end badly. The time to dispute their policy is either prior to entering the establishment, or after leaving. Contact the policy makers, not the employees.

Always leave when asked, regardless if carrying or not. Not worth the hassle. I've never been asked to leave anywhere. Well not because I was carrying :)

[RMGOdirector]

http://www.rmgo.org/banning-businesses

[HKFan]

My CCW instructor said the same. It's not a violation of gun laws to carry on private property. It would just be a regular civil tort violation to carry on property if the owner disallowed it (e.g. simply trespassing).

[Tweety Bird]

Just found out last night that the new Holy Tony's Hospital doesn't allow carry. Went there to see my brother and there was a "No Guns" sign, a guard and a metal detector. I wasn't carrying but my wife had to unload.

[TFOGGER]

Just found out last night that the new Holy Tony's Hospital doesn't allow carry. Went there to see my brother and there was a "No Guns" sign, a guard and a metal detector. I wasn't carrying but my wife had to unload.

Most hospitals have that security at the ER. The old St. Anthony's did as well, and Denver Health (aka The Denver Knife and Gun Club). When I was visiting at Swedish, they had a metal detector, guards, etc. at the actual door to the ER, but if you turned right and walked down the hall to the hospital proper, there was no such security.

[M2MG]

I don't understand you guys, why do you try so hard to support (ie. spend your hard earned dollars) at businesses that hate your civil rights? I understand the hospital ER's being a place you have to play by someone's rules, but why do you go the restaurants and such that don't want YOU there?

If a business puts up a sign that says " NO BLACKS" or "NO MEXICANS" or NO CHRISTIANS" is this any less offensive to you than "NO GUNS"?

My money spends anyplace, I don't need to (or will I) support any business that I know goes out of their way to say to me, and my beliefs that we aren't welcome.

Some of you guys have gone so far as to write in threads on here about OCing someplace knowing their anti-gun policy, and being told to leave by the manager. Then, you tell off some $8.00 an hour "clock puncher" who can't say "Yes" to anything without getting 12 other people to agree to it about how you have all these civil rights.

If a business takes a position contrary to mine, fine, I can "Vote" at the cash register as well as the ballot box.

But you guys fight to support these people, can someone tell me why?

M2MG

[mcantar18c]

I don't understand you guys, why do you try so hard to support (ie. spend your hard earned dollars) at businesses that hate your civil rights? I understand the hospital ER's being a place you have to play by someone's rules, but why do you go the restaurants and such that don't want YOU there?

If a business puts up a sign that says " NO BLACKS" or "NO MEXICANS" or NO CHRISTIANS" is this any less offensive to you than "NO GUNS"?

My money spends anyplace, I don't need to (or will I) support any business that I know goes out of their way to say to me, and my beliefs that we aren't welcome.

Some of you guys have gone so far as to write in threads on here about OCing someplace knowing their anti-gun policy, and being told to leave by the manager. Then, you tell off some $8.00 an hour "clock puncher" who can't say "Yes" to anything without getting 12 other people to agree to it about how you have all these civil rights.

If a business takes a position contrary to mine, fine, I can "Vote" at the cash register as well as the ballot box.

But you guys fight to support these people, can someone tell me why?

M2MG

Cause I can't find wings as good as BW3's. That's the only place I willingly spend my money at in spite of their rules, and I still carry there anyway.

[KevDen2005]

Because I don't read signs and don't care what they think.

[Irving]

Cause I can't find wings as good as BW3's. That's the only place I willingly spend my money at in spite of their rules, and I still carry there anyway.

There wings aren't that good. Especially since they got rid of the legs.

And what Kevin said.

[mcantar18c]

There wings aren't that good. Especially since they got rid of the legs.

And what Kevin said.

They're pretty damn good. At least they're the best around here anyway... I know there are better places but I don't know of any in the area.

[Dr_Fwd]

I'm with M2MG, I'm trying to avoid such places and there are not getting any of my money!

[Irving]

They're pretty damn good. At least they're the best around here anyway... I know there are better places but I don't know of any in the area.

Well, what kind of sauce do you usually get?

[Chad4000]

Well, what kind of sauce do you usually get?

lol.. honey bbq for sure.. hahaha

but I have go so far as to make a list and keep it.. there are places that will NEVER get my money again..

hacienda colorado has not gotten a single dollar from me in probably 8, maybe 9 years.. and they wont either..

[Irving]

Hacienda was a pretty disappointing Mexican food restaurant. The waitress was telling me that they've been around for like 20 years, and are just now getting sopapillas. What kind of Mexican restaurant doesn't have sopapillas?

I think Wingstop is just as good as BW3's, and Wingstop has the best ranch dressing anywhere.

If I cut every business with anti-gun policies out of my life, I'd just sit on my couch and not spend my money anywhere. Not like I'd have any money, because I also wouldn't have a job.

[Chad4000]

If I cut every business with anti-gun policies out of my life, I'd just sit on my couch and not spend my money anywhere. Not like I'd have any money, because I also wouldn't have a job.


hahha,,, yeahs thats probably true...