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mcantar18c
10-15-2011, 23:36
More awesomeness from RangerUp. Even if you don't like the design of the shirt.

http://www.rangerup.com/the45.html

I remember the day I found out I got into West Point.

My mom actually showed up in the hallway of my high school and waited for me to get out of class. She was bawling her eyes out and apologizing that she had opened up my admission letter. She wasn’t crying because it had been her dream for me to go there. She was crying because she knew how hard I’d worked to get in, how much I wanted to attend, and how much I wanted to be an infantry officer. I was going to get that opportunity.

That same day two of my teachers took me aside and essentially told me the following: “Nick, you’re a smart guy. You don’t have to join the military. You should go to college, instead.”

I could easily write a tome defending West Pont and the military as I did that day, explaining that USMA is an elite institution, that separate from that it is actually statistically much harder to enlist in the military than it is to get admitted to college, that serving the nation is a challenge that all able-bodied men should at least consider for a host of reasons, but I won’t.

What I will say is that when a 16 year-old kid is being told that attending West Point is going to be bad for his future then there is a dangerous disconnect in America, and entirely too many Americans have no idea what kind of burdens our military is bearing.

In World War II, 11.2% of the nation served in four years. In Vietnam, 4.3% served in 12 years. Since 2001, only 0.45% of our population has served in the Global War on Terror. These are unbelievable statistics.

Over time, fewer and fewer people have shouldered more and more of the burden and it is only getting worse. Our troops were sent to war in Iraq by a Congress consisting of 10% veterans with only one person having a child in the military. Taxes did not increase to pay for the war. War bonds were not sold. Gas was not regulated. In fact, the average citizen was asked to sacrifice nothing, and has sacrificed nothing unless they have chosen to out of the goodness of their hearts.

The only people who have sacrificed are the veterans and their families. The volunteers. The people who swore an oath to defend this nation. You.

You stand there, deployment after deployment and fight on. You’ve lost relationships, spent years of your lives in extreme conditions, years apart from kids you’ll never get back, and beaten your body in a way that even professional athletes don’t understand. And you come home to a nation that doesn’t understand. They don’t understand suffering. They don’t understand sacrifice. They don’t understand that bad people exist. They look at you like you’re a machine – like something is wrong with you. You are the misguided one – not them. When you get out, you sit in the college classrooms with political science teachers that discount your opinions on Iraq and Afghanistan because YOU WERE THERE and can’t understand the “macro” issues they gathered from books with your bias. You watch TV shows where every vet has PTSD and the violent strain at that. Your Congress is debating your benefits, your retirement, and your pay, while they ask you to do more.

But the amazing thing about you is that you all know this. You know your country will never pay back what you’ve given up. You know that the populace at large will never truly understand or appreciate what you have done for them. Hell, you know that in some circles, you will be thought as less than normal for having worn the uniform. But you do it anyway. You do what the greatest men and women of this country have done since 1775 – YOU SERVED. Just that decision alone makes you part of an elite group.

Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few.

You are the 0.45%.

Byte Stryke
10-15-2011, 23:45
So the Vets from 1976-2000 don't matter...

Korean War Maybe?

Guylee
10-15-2011, 23:55
Finally a percentage I understand. Thanks for the read man.

mcantar18c
10-16-2011, 00:11
So the Vets from 1976-2000 don't matter...

Korean War Maybe?

I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he was trying to discount those who served between Vietnam and the War on Terror.

Irving
10-16-2011, 01:13
Wonder what the difference was in population between WWII and today. Not trying to discount the article or anything, just curious.

ChunkyMonkey
10-16-2011, 01:20
Wonder what the difference was in population between WWII and today. Not trying to discount the article or anything, just curious.

130 millions back then.. 300 millions + 12 millions illegals today.

Byte Stryke
10-16-2011, 07:41
I don't see anything that would lead me to believe he was trying to discount those who served between Vietnam and the War on Terror.

Just noticed that those Eras aren't counted is all

Sharpienads
10-16-2011, 07:58
Wonder what the difference was in population between WWII and today. Not trying to discount the article or anything, just curious.

It shouldn't matter since the article is about the percent of the population of people that serverd/are serving in the military. It would be interesting to see total numbers in addition to the percentages, though.

The author does bring up an interesting point about how disconnected a large portion of the population is from the current wars.

Byte Stryke
10-16-2011, 08:01
It shouldn't matter since the article is about the percent of the population of people that serverd/are serving in the military. It would be interesting to see total numbers in addition to the percentages, though.

The author does bring up an interesting point about how disconnected a large portion of the population is from the current wars.

That is a given in consideration of the recent protests...

[Bang]

Scanker19
10-16-2011, 08:14
It shouldn't matter since the article is about the percent of the population of people that serverd/are serving in the military. It would be interesting to see total numbers in addition to the percentages, though.

The author does bring up an interesting point about how disconnected a large portion of the population is from the current wars.

The percentages change. If you and I were in a room you like vanilla I like chocolate. 50% likes vanilla. If I am with 100 people I like vanilla 99 like chocolate, then 1% likes vanilla.

Sharpienads
10-16-2011, 09:43
The percentages change. If you and I were in a room you like vanilla I like chocolate. 50% likes vanilla. If I am with 100 people I like vanilla 99 like chocolate, then 1% likes vanilla.

Unless I like vanilla AND chocolate. Then 100% likes chocolate and only 50% like vanilla. So we (you and I) outnumber me (just me) by 50%. Suddenly I find myself in a mathematical and statistical minority. But I digress.

If you take the percentage of the total number of people who served in the military out of the total population, it doesn't matter what the hard numbers are. It's still a percentage that represents those who served out of the total population. But as you point out, statistics can be misleading, and that's why it's important to get real numbers along with percentages. That's why i said I would be interested in the numbers as well. I guess I could google it, but I'd rather think about ice cream, which is what I assume you were referring to with your chocolate/vanilla example.

BigBear
10-16-2011, 10:01
Regardless, once again: thank you to all who have served! You are constantly in my thoughts and prayers. My freedoms, liberties, and even my life is due to your service and protection, and sacrifices. So thank you to all whom have served (whether I agree with you or not, Ha!)

Irving
10-16-2011, 12:14
11.2% of 130 million is 1.4 million.
.45% of 357 million is 1.6 million.

11.2% of 357 million is 39.9 million. We probably couldn't have afforded that many troops anyway.

jonnyd49
10-16-2011, 15:48
Not only did 1.4 million serve during WWII, but (according to a quick wikipedia search) 416,000 American service members were killed. In Vietnam, 58,000 service members were killed. In the current War on Terror, right around 7,000 service members have been killed.

Despite the extremely small percentage of troops killed in the current war, current generations have no idea what sacrifice means. Most have no idea what kind of sacrifice was made in generations past.

I'm only 31 years old, but I firmly believe that our Greatest Generation was the one which fought and won in World War II. I don't mean just the soldiers, but also all those in the US who made sacrifices, bought war bonds, went to work in America's industries, and provided what our service members needed. Reading about and talking to WWII veterans amazes me at how tough those guys were.

Sharpienads
10-16-2011, 15:51
11.2% of 130 million is 1.4 million.
.45% of 357 million is 1.6 million.

11.2% of 357 million is 39.9 million. We probably couldn't have afforded that many troops anyway.

You're right about that, no way we could afford 40M troops. I don't think we need that many anyways.

Aloha_Shooter
10-16-2011, 17:48
Just noticed that those Eras aren't counted is all

Wow, way to intentionally take things out of context. He outlined two endpoints of a timeline to support his thesis of a declining portion of the population directly involved in the defense of the country but from that you try to imply he was ignoring the middle periods. Who'd you learn math and logic from, Obama?

KevDen2005
10-16-2011, 18:32
The percentages change. If you and I were in a room you like vanilla I like chocolate. 50% likes vanilla. If I am with 100 people I like vanilla 99 like chocolate, then 1% likes vanilla.


Great, now all I can think about is Ice Cream

KevDen2005
10-16-2011, 18:33
Not only did 1.4 million serve during WWII, but (according to a quick wikipedia search) 416,000 American service members were killed. In Vietnam, 58,000 service members were killed. In the current War on Terror, right around 7,000 service members have been killed.

Despite the extremely small percentage of troops killed in the current war, current generations have no idea what sacrifice means. Most have no idea what kind of sacrifice was made in generations past.

I'm only 31 years old, but I firmly believe that our Greatest Generation was the one which fought and won in World War II. I don't mean just the soldiers, but also all those in the US who made sacrifices, bought war bonds, went to work in America's industries, and provided what our service members needed. Reading about and talking to WWII veterans amazes me at how tough those guys were.


The statistic that I have always heard is that during WWII (at the height) there were as many as 16 Million people on active duty. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have a source handy.

Byte Stryke
10-16-2011, 20:07
Wow, way to intentionally take things out of context. He outlined two endpoints of a timeline to support his thesis of a declining portion of the population directly involved in the defense of the country but from that you try to imply he was ignoring the middle periods. Who'd you learn math and logic from, Obama?

He also included a single point somewhere in-between. I only brought it up more as a query/observation not as accusation.

and what the hell does this have to do with Obama?

Did you run out out valid argument points already?


nevermind

/ignore

Sharpienads
10-16-2011, 22:19
He also included a single point somewhere in-between. I only brought it up more as a query/observation not as accusation.

and what the hell does this have to do with Obama?

Did you run out out valid argument points already?


nevermind

/ignore

Why /ignore? This is just starting to get /interesting!

Aloha_Shooter
10-17-2011, 01:58
So the Vets from 1976-2000 don't matter...

Korean War Maybe?

So this isn't an accusation? It sure read like one.

Ronin13
10-17-2011, 10:08
How about we stop with the semantics and BS about numbers, logic, and Obeyme and all agree that people need to shut up and realize what kind of sacrifice our nations Armed Forces and their families make all the time that everyone else has no freaking clue about, not much of a care (except the few who do shed a tear when a soldier is killed or wounded in combat), and really neither war really affects them. My family made that first sacrifice on Sept. 30, 2006 when their first born son shipped out for Basic. Then made an even bigger sacrifice on Dec 23, 2008 when said son left the warm and comfortable US of A to go fight along side his brothers and sisters in Afghanistan against those who wish us all dead. Luckily, on Sept. 1, 2010 their son came home from Military Service for good- bearing scars, both visible and not, and became one of the many suffering veterans that to be honest, aside from a few proud Americans and the different Veterans organizations, I've seen most Americans don't give two hoots about. Expect a little more patience at the store because my shoulder is messed up? go eff yourself. Need a little more patience because of the extreme mental trauma and get frustrated easily? go eff yourself. Need you to repeat what you just said because my hearing is damaged? go eff yourself. Don't want people to look weird at me or poke fun because I always get teary eyed during the national anthem or when I see Armed Forces members at sporting events doing something cool? go eff yourself. What do I say to those people who are a part of the people I always get the go eff yourself attitude from? "You're Welcome."
/rant

BUC303
10-18-2011, 17:43
11.2% of 130 million is 1.4 million.
.45% of 357 million is 1.6 million.

11.2% of 357 million is 39.9 million. We probably couldn't have afforded that many troops anyway.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but that math is wrong, 1.4 million is 11.2% of 13 million. 11.2 % of 130 million is 14,560,000 so the numbers are vastly different.

Irving
10-18-2011, 21:00
Thanks for the correction. Looks like I totally missed a zero. 14 million troops is a whole lot.