View Full Version : A question on education...
Long story short- I suck at math and MSCD is trying to make me take 4 math classes that give 0 credits then 2 more classes to gain my degree. I hate the subject, always have, always will, and these 4 classes will just make me feel dumb. I'm sorry, I lack the capacity to fully understand math, maybe my brain doesn't work well...
So question, spend time I absolutely do not have on a tutor to get my placement test math area up, or just say eff it to going to college (at the risk of angering my dad who is my boss and refuses to hand over the family business to me without a 4 year degree)? Should I just use plan B and use my GI Bill to pay for flight school and become a helicopter pilot? Letting my brother then be the one solely responsible for taking our family business over and carrying it on so we don't have to close our doors after 61+ years? What to do? I need help bad here as I'm set to start school in January and need to have at least one math class done by Jan 2013 to graduate in time with the GI Bill's limits of # of Semesters.
DocMedic
10-17-2011, 12:31
Just deal with it. I didn't take math for 10 years, Failed college algebra back in 2000 because I hated math (fake numbers are stupid), but I needed it to finish my degree so I took it, still hate it, but pass it with a B.
Fentonite
10-17-2011, 12:31
Find a way to get it done. Most of the time when I hated math, it was a mostly just not meshing with the teacher. Find someone who can help you understand it. You are clearly smart enough to get through it, and you'll be glad you did. My 2 cents.
No easy routes... I do think a lot of places make you take "remedial" courses just to squeeze more money out of you. However, there usually isn't a lot you can do about it.
Options:
1. Find a tutor and spend time and money you probably don't have on someone you probably don't know if they can teach or not.
2. Suck it up and take the classes and spend time and money on something you'll probably never use again...
hehehe.
Point #1: No one is incapable of learning a subject. Perhaps you had bad teachers before, or the material was presented in a way that just doesn't work for you... some people are far more visual, and being able to visualize math helps them immensely
Point #2: Meet your new best friend: http://www.khanacademy.org Go here, I suggest setting up a (free) account, but first just go through the list of videos. Your first goal is going to be finding where you are competent in math now in the video series. It goes all the way down to 1+1, so you can certainly find a point at which you're comfortable. For example, I'm sure you can do basic addition/substraction, can do multiplication in your head for numbers up to 9x9, and at least know how to operate a calculator to accomplish division and more complex multiplication, right? So find a video that you're like, "Yeah, I got all this" and then move up to the next more difficult one.
See if this method works for you. Many people find this much better than reading out of a textbook.
Good luck!
H.
My wife is struggling with the math requirement at MSCD. She didn’t do well on the accuplacer test and is stuck taking four classes when all of her course work is done. I feel for you; I think the proficiency this school requires to pass the accuplacer is stupid for BA majors. I think the school is discussing changes to the requirements but that won’t help you in the short term.
If you don’t get math, you are not dumb…you just don’t get math. Everybody has their gifts; my wife works with people; I work with computers.
Are you almost done or are you just beginning or are you somewhere in between? What is your major?
I would advise finishing your degree regardless of the family business or no family business. My brother never finished his degree and when his business died he went to real estate to see that die too. He has no degree or marketable skills so he is working at Target at the age of 46. As a side note, my graduate degree gave me a substantial pay increase. I am working on a doctorate right now and I expect another huge pay increase so I am a proponent of education. Regardless of what happens out there, nobody can take away your skills, experience, and education. The more you have to keep your resume out of the circular file, the better.
One more thing:
My wife did the tutor thing to pass the accuplacer; it didn't work. She lost time and money by not taking the classes.
Math is not a difficult subject it is just time-consuming. It sounds to me like you are not willing to deal with the subject because you don't find it "entertaining". By the same token Aeronautics and Flight School in general requires a great deal of math skills.
Stop making up excuses and finish your college education!
Cysoto has it right. To "become a helicopter pilot" you will need A LOT of math! It may be "different" math but it's still math.
Each and every one of use math each and every day. It's a learned skill just like English and learning the difference between "then" and "than". Not that I'm suggesting we all get it right every time but it sure does make life, and your choices, easier.
My recommendation is to do what it takes to get your 4-year degree - it is worth it.
OneGuy67
10-17-2011, 13:56
I had to do the same thing for my degree from Metro. Two remedial classes before taking college algebra. Passed it though!
You can do what my wife did: get a tutor for several months and go over the college algebra textbook, then take the CLEP test on algebra and be done with it.
SA Friday
10-17-2011, 14:29
A tutor for placement will NOT save you. It will get you placed inm math classes you won't be ready for and you will fail the class or have to drop it at a financial loss. Take the classes. Live in the math tutor room and get their help while taking the classes.
Math is in everything. If you are going to fly or run a business, you just flat out have to understand the math. Hell, the trig in avaition alone it well above the basic business math level. Math is also very accumulative. It builds on itself. No solid foundation and you will never get the higher algebra and calculus.
Take the classes.
I had to do the same thing for my degree from Metro. Two remedial classes before taking college algebra. Passed it though!
You can do what my wife did: get a tutor for several months and go over the college algebra textbook, then take the CLEP test on algebra and be done with it.
Oh damn! I totally forgot about CLEP! They pressed us pretty hard in Afghanistan to use downtime not to catch up on sleep but to get on board with DANTES and CLEP so we could get some credits out of the way... then the dreaded "LT Relieved of Duty" set in and we had no downtime.
Cysoto has it right. To "become a helicopter pilot" you will need A LOT of math! It may be "different" math but it's still math.
I was talking more about "non-practical-never-use-in-daily-life-no-matter-what" Math... I understand aviation takes math, but not the kind where they were testing me on stuff I don't even remember learning to be placed.
My wife is struggling with the math requirement at MSCD. She didn’t do well on the accuplacer test and is stuck taking four classes when all of her course work is done. I feel for you; I think the proficiency this school requires to pass the accuplacer is stupid for BA majors. I think the school is discussing changes to the requirements but that won’t help you in the short term.
Are you almost done or are you just beginning or are you somewhere in between? What is your major?
The more you have to keep your resume out of the circular file, the better.
My friend's dad is one of the deans at Metro and he says the math is unfair and doesn't cover "requirements to graduate high school" math, it's more intricate and advanced math that what is required by the state to graduate HS. I have 3 semesters of credits under my belt and going for a BA in History. A subject that has approximately .0003% involvement with math (if you don't include years and the whole BC/AD thing).
newracer
10-17-2011, 15:05
+1 for do what ever it takes to get it done. There are a lot of resources out there to help.
jackthewall81
10-17-2011, 15:24
Just keep working at it. You can do it!
...Should I just use plan B and use my GI Bill to pay for flight school and become a helicopter pilot?
So you plan on being a 99%er and join the folks in Occupy Wall Street. (He said sarcastically) You're going to spend big bucks learning a skill with few positions.
You need to check the job market / employment opportunities for low time helicopter (or fixed wing) pilots. Look back over the history of the last 20 or 30 years. Ther aren't that many job opportunties in aviation.
Get a degree and a pilots license. That way they have 2 reasons to hire you.
Hang in there. Maybe you can convince your Dad he needs an aviation division in the family business.
I took more than enough math to graduate , and it isn't fun nor easy. [Bang]
Aloha_Shooter
10-17-2011, 16:13
"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house."
- Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Just had to get that one out of the way due to the subject. ;)
Note that Heinlein also said in the same book,
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
His point is that you need SOME math skills in life -- well, you can forget about balancing accounts if you want to run for Congress but you'll darn well want to know how to do that if you're going to run the family business and keep it going.
The real question is, what kind of math do you need to pass to get your degree and function in your family business and what's holding you up in that? As with anything else, a lot depends on the instructor -- I can certainly understand the frustration if you have someone just tossing you a textbook and expecting you to pick it up via osmosis. You probably just need someone who can show you the techniques and relevance (like Schoolhouse Rock did with basic multiplication, history and science for kids 30-40 years ago).
Basic algebra is definitely applicable to running a business. How many units of items A, B and C do you need? Would it be more efficient to get them in pallets of size X or Y? Even basic trig is very useful in daily life. On the other hand, you probably don't need an introduction to calculus for a history degree (although it might be helpful when trying to understand radiocarbon dating).
So ...
1. Determine your goal. If running the family business rather than shuttering it is important to you then do what you need to do to make that happen.
2. Figure out what you need to make that happen. Specifically which math classes do you need to get your degree? Can you place out of any of them based on real world practical experience?
3. What is preventing you from making that happen? Instruction in the relevance of various topics? Time or the right practice problem sets?
4. Find out specific options to assist with the specific remaining problems. A tutor MAY help but figuring out what you want from the tutor will greatly increase the chances of success.
sniper_tim
10-17-2011, 16:14
I agree with the other posters that the best thing you can do for yourself is finish your education. Don't give up because you have issues in one subject, recognize you excel in other subjects and allocate your study time appropriately. You don't need to be smart to get an education, only apply yourself and spend the time (I tell my kids to "play the game"), however the smartest thing you will ever do is finishing your education. Finally, math is very time intensive, and each lesson compounds the previous lesson. If you apply yourself EVERYDAY, you will succeed! Math is not a subject you can "catchup" on. I had similar situation and a difficult time with college English classes, primarily because I clashed with most of the teachers. After failing several classes, finding a proper teacher, adjusting my attitude, and committing to apply myself in that subject allowed me to complete the requirements.
Cheers,
Tim
Sharpienads
10-17-2011, 17:26
Dude, I bet there's a mathematical equation or model you could plug all these variables into and get the correct answer.
Or find a Zoltar machine.
Or just suck it up and learn math. Sure, some math is ridiculous, but most is necessary and will help you in the long run.
KevDen2005
10-17-2011, 17:35
Long story short- I suck at math and MSCD is trying to make me take 4 math classes that give 0 credits then 2 more classes to gain my degree. I hate the subject, always have, always will, and these 4 classes will just make me feel dumb. I'm sorry, I lack the capacity to fully understand math, maybe my brain doesn't work well...
So question, spend time I absolutely do not have on a tutor to get my placement test math area up, or just say eff it to going to college (at the risk of angering my dad who is my boss and refuses to hand over the family business to me without a 4 year degree)? Should I just use plan B and use my GI Bill to pay for flight school and become a helicopter pilot? Letting my brother then be the one solely responsible for taking our family business over and carrying it on so we don't have to close our doors after 61+ years? What to do? I need help bad here as I'm set to start school in January and need to have at least one math class done by Jan 2013 to graduate in time with the GI Bill's limits of # of Semesters.
The four classes that give you no credit are to help you succeed later and be good at math. Take advantage of it. Or get a tutor and retake the college test so you don't have to take those math classes. Either way it will make you good at math or at least better.
mevshooter
10-17-2011, 18:31
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but if its an issue of cost or having inattentive teachers/large classes, go take them at a community college. I had truly great math teachers at CCA. The first time I've ever truly succeeded with algebra classes.
I'm taking no credit math right now. the math professors I've had at community college have been really great.
EDIT: you can do math. if you can write your name, drive a car or shoot a gun, you can do math. anyone can do math. It's all about practice. I'm in the same boat, always hated math, never good at it. I'm studying and practicing and I'm gettin' it. If I can, I guarantee you can. oh, and the pilot thing? yeah, math bigtime. so hit them books.
ShooterJM
10-17-2011, 19:03
1) You can do it. Period.
2) It's been a long time, but I used to to tutor math up through calculus. If you need help shoot me a PM and I'll do what I can. Free. Most of the time if you don't understand math, you just need it explained in a different way.
So, with unemployment at almost 10%, you are crying over having to take a few more college classes to have a business handed down to you? And since it might get a bit hard, you want to quit? Sorry bro, no pity for you here...
Eggysrun
10-17-2011, 22:00
I suck at math and here I am using my GI Bill to major in accounting. I guess it just takes a lot of motivation and a good teacher. My current math teacher is awesome, I hate this stuff so much but I'll make the extra effort. The last time I did a math class was in 2000 in high school, it's hard but just stick with it!
Scanker19
10-17-2011, 22:17
Veterans Upward Bound. Free program if you qualify. Has a class to bring you up to speed and tutor while taking the actual class. I'm in the same boat 10+ years with no math set me back big time. Check here:
http://www.navub.org/navubprojects/project-information.php?state=6
KevDen2005
10-17-2011, 22:59
I took all of my math at Front Rance CC. I really think the Community College system is great and have had a great bunch of instructors. A lot better in many areas than I had at Metro
DD977GM2
10-17-2011, 23:00
Math is not a difficult subject it is just time-consuming. It sounds to me like you are not willing to deal with the subject because you don't find it "entertaining". By the same token Aeronautics and Flight School in general requires a great deal of math skills.
Stop making up excuses and finish your college education!
QFT
You will use all kinds of math for becoming a helo pilot. I dated a chick for awhile that went through aeronatics whatever at Metro and I had to tutor her for all the math that was involved etc.
Math isnt hard, you just have to get to that point in your thinking that its natural to think in numbers in that particular class. Kinda like a signalman in the Navy or morse code operator.....just have to allow your mind to think in terms you havnt had ot think in.
I had a difficult time with the required math class for a business degree at CU @ Denver. I didn't think I could pass the class (I think it was calculus II), and I only had that ONE class to pass.
I just changed majors. I actually changed to Economics, which is ALL math, but it was something that I could handle better than the Calc II class. I'm really glad I changed my major, as I think it gave me a much better understanding of how the world works.
Do you have to take all those math classes to get ANY major, or just the one you're currently after? Also, since you're already at Metro, how difficult would it be to try and transfer to UCD or that other school that is down there?
That Khan website is good advice as well.
A tutor for placement will NOT save you. It will get you placed inm math classes you won't be ready for and you will fail the class or have to drop it at a financial loss. Take the classes. Live in the math tutor room and get their help while taking the classes.
Math is in everything. If you are going to fly or run a business, you just flat out have to understand the math. Hell, the trig in avaition alone it well above the basic business math level. Math is also very accumulative. It builds on itself. No solid foundation and you will never get the higher algebra and calculus.
Take the classes.
I'll jump on the band-wagon and advise taking the classes, As a side not, the most difficult part of the calculus is the algebra and trig involved. Calculus is simple.
We went to different school but same/similar Colorado system.
Yeah, ECON requires way more MATH/APPM than FNCE or ACCT for sure.
Econometrics itself is a math class, but most of grad ECONs are econometrics.
I agree with your statement on CALC2 (semester). imho, I think CALC2 is hardest over calculus 1,2,3.
I had a difficult time with the required math class for a business degree at CU @ Denver. I didn't think I could pass the class (I think it was calculus II), and I only had that ONE class to pass.
I just changed majors. I actually changed to Economics, which is ALL math, but it was something that I could handle better than the Calc II class. I'm really glad I changed my major, as I think it gave me a much better understanding of how the world works.
Do you have to take all those math classes to get ANY major, or just the one you're currently after? Also, since you're already at Metro, how difficult would it be to try and transfer to UCD or that other school that is down there?
That Khan website is good advice as well.
So, with unemployment at almost 10%, you are crying over having to take a few more college classes to have a business handed down to you? And since it might get a bit hard, you want to quit? Sorry bro, no pity for you here...
Since I really don't like to disclose my family business I'll make an exception... I don't actually get it handed to me, I have to buy it from him for what it's worth when I started working here. That's how he did it with his father.
And back to the topic- I have to ask the Vet people if the GI Bill will pay for these "non-credit" math classes, if not, guess someone won't be graduating free of student loans (which is a big crock of s^&*)... I'd love to just get some tutoring, take the ACCUPLACER over, and only have to do the 2 math classes and be done with r-tard complex math for life! Honestly, who needs some of that crap except for physics and engineering? Whatever happened to teaching practical math like "How to balance your checkbook" and "Math used in REAL daily life" ? Oh wait, they never offered that. /rant
I was in the same exact boat as you Ronin, go to the Khanacademy site Hoosier suggested. It seems lake a waste of time as you work through the tree but it will get you going. The videos are top notch at explaining WHY things are done a certain way which was and continues to be one of my major problems with math. I did the tree over the summer and took the accuplacer down at Metro with no problem.
Hate math too. But I know it was my fault I never tried or paid attention in school. I'm still going to school but I am now done with math and passed my last semester of it with a B. Just glad to be done.
Did your dad say your degree had to be in a certain area? If not find something that requires less math..... I don't know its up too you. But you should finish school a bacholoers degree nowadays is like a high school diploma 10 years ago you almost need a masters now
I'd love to just get some tutoring, take the ACCUPLACER over, and only have to do the 2 math classes and be done with r-tard complex math for life!
Sounds like a plan, now execute it.
SA Friday
10-18-2011, 16:37
GI bill should cover them. Call Janet in the Vet Office. She knows that stuff off the top of her head.
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