Barack Hussein Obama

[Atrain1]

How many people think he will get Elected again? I am just curious.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

I do :( in this world of sheeple

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

i will be voting ron paul i think

[trlcavscout]

As dumb as people are I think he will.

[Drilldov2.0]

I cannot see how a reasonable person could actually consider voting a second term for that useless, inept, inexperienced douchebag.

[roberth]

Since when has an entitled liberal been reasonable.

I think Obama will win, there are just too many people dependent on the government for their livelihood. The producers are outnumbered by the looters.

I'm going to vote for the person that best represents me even if that person is on a third party ticket.

If the GOP wants my vote they'll have to earn it, they won't earn it with some toilet dribble like Romney or Perry.

[JoeT]

I think Obama will win, there are just too many people dependent on the government for their livelihood.

I agree 100%....Our country has 47% of it's residence that pay no taxes and rely on the government to live. Add that to the 11% of the population that actually work FOR the government (think teachers/police/fire) that will only vote for feeding the system. And it's ALMOST a sure thing he'll get a second term





I'm going to vote for the person that best represents me even if that person is on a third party ticket.

If the GOP wants my vote they'll have to earn it, they won't earn it with some toilet dribble like Romney or Perry.

and then factor in this.... there are a lot of people that will vote 3rd party and take away votes from the GOP on that principle alone. As much as I'd like to think that a 3rd party has a chance, a voting 3rd party this year assures Obama get re-elected.



and just wait... when he gets re-elected, we'll be looking back at the recession of 2008-2012 as "the good old days". and "remember how free we were in 2011?"

[roberth]

and then factor in this.... there are a lot of people that will vote 3rd party and take away votes from the GOP on that principle alone. As much as I'd like to think that a 3rd party has a chance, a voting 3rd party this year assures Obama get re-elected.



I'm done playing the 'lesser evil' game with the GOP and so are alot of other folks. The GOP needs to change and they won't change until they lose some more races.

This 'blame the 3rd party voters when the GOP loses' baloney has to stop, it is just more blame-shifting and finger pointing by people who fail to see that the GOP is socialist at least and who refuse to vote for real conservatives. It isn't my fault or the fault of any 3rd party voter that the GOP loses, the loss rests entirely at the feet of the GOP and its membership. I won't vote for Obama so it won't be my fault if Obama wins.

I have been in some heated arguments while discussing the 'blame the 3rd party voters when the GOP loses' and I always win them because I keep repeating the facts and I don't chicken out with some lame excuse like the GOP wants.


and just wait... when he gets re-elected, we'll be looking back at the recession of 2008-2012 as "the good old days". and "remember how free we were in 2011?"

Good, maybe some people will wake up and smell the coffee and start voting with their heads instead of their feelings or loyalty to a party that has abandoned them.

[Drilldov2.0]

I'm done playing the 'lesser evil' game with the GOP and so are alot of other folks. The GOP needs to change and they won't change until they lose some more races.

This 'blame the 3rd party voters when the GOP loses' baloney has to stop, it is just more blame-shifting and finger pointing by people who fail to see that the GOP is socialist at least and who refuse to vote for real conservatives. It isn't my fault or the fault of any 3rd party voter that the GOP loses, the loss rests entirely at the feet of the GOP and its membership. I won't vote for Obama so it won't be my fault if Obama wins.

I have been in some heated arguments while discussing the 'blame the 3rd party voters when the GOP loses' and I always win them because I keep repeating the facts and I don't chicken out with some lame excuse like the GOP wants.

I have been supporting Cain, who right now is the only Conservative choice IMO. He represents exactly what we need in Washington, a change from the status quo, party-line morons. A Washington outsider is just what we need.



Good, maybe some people will wake up and smell the coffee and start voting with their heads instead of their feelings or loyalty to a party that has abandoned them.

I guess you just feel good about yourself for not voting for Obama. Silly notion, when you call the GOP "socialist" and don't actively work against the clear socialist in power. The most important thing we need to do right now is get obama out of office and replace the Senate majority. If you think by not voting for the GOP candidates is a good start, you may as well vote for zero.

What we do need right now is a Washington outsider. Which is why I have been and continue to support Cain. The other candidates are all Washington as usual candidates.

[William]

Incumbents rarely win in a bad economy.

[roberth]

I guess you just feel good about yourself for not voting for Obama. Silly notion, when you call the GOP "socialist" and don't actively work against the clear socialist in power. The most important thing we need to do right now is get obama out of office and replace the Senate majority. If you think by not voting for the GOP candidates is a good start, you may as well vote for zero.

Blah blah blah

You're so full of crap on this topic your eyes are brown.

[DD977GM2]

Unfortunatly he will be re-elected.
Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.
I understand theier beliefs for a 3rd party candidate and what it could do
for out country.
But in the end when this is truely a 2 party election, their 3rd party vote will
be null and void towards getting a non democrat in office. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

[roberth]

Unfortunatly he will be re-elected.
Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.
I understand theier beliefs for a 3rd party candidate and what it could do
for out country.
But in the end when this is truely a 2 party election, their 3rd party vote will
be null and void towards getting a non democrat in office. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

Wrong again.

I don't go to the GOP, the GOP comes to me.

On this topic you're full of crap too.

Nobody tells me how to vote or blames me when their POS candiate loses, you'll lose that argument EVERY time.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Unfortunatly he will be re-elected.
Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.
I understand theier beliefs for a 3rd party candidate and what it could do
for out country.
But in the end when this is truely a 2 party election, their 3rd party vote will
be null and void towards getting a non democrat in office. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

This!

[Drilldov2.0]

Blah blah blah

You're so full of crap on this topic your eyes are brown.

Nice reply. I see now that you know jack **** about politics nor have a means (brain) to actually discuss the topic. People like you are the reason we are in the mess we are in now. BTW, my eyes are green, you are the one full of ****.

[roberth]

Nice reply. I see now that you know jack **** about politics nor have a means (brain) to actually discuss the topic. People like you are the reason we are in the mess we are in now. BTW, my eyes are green, you are the one full of ****.

Then don't tell me how to vote for the person who best represents me.

If Herman Cain is the GOP guy, I'm voting GOP.

[DD977GM2]

I agree 100%....Our country has 47% of it's residence that pay no taxes and rely on the government to live. Add that to the 11% of the population that actually work FOR the government (think teachers/police/fire) that will only vote for feeding the system. And it's ALMOST a sure thing he'll get a second term





and then factor in this.... there are a lot of people that will vote 3rd party and take away votes from the GOP on that principle alone. As much as I'd like to think that a 3rd party has a chance, a voting 3rd party this year assures Obama get re-elected.



and just wait... when he gets re-elected, we'll be looking back at the recession of 2008-2012 as "the good old days". and "remember how free we were in 2011?"

That will be a major factor in getting noblamo re-elected and folks how
vote 3rd party will defend their ****ty decision on the GOP needing to earn their vote,
the GOP has abandoned us, the 3rd party candidate represents my beliefs nad
blah blah blah blah. Might as well just ****ing vote for noblamo.
Irritates me to no end that people dont realize that it is almost impossible to
elect a 3rd party candidate.[Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

[sniper7]

I don't think he will get re-elected as long as there is a strong candidate that comes forward.

If Mitt Romney is supposed to be that guy....obama will in.

[Drilldov2.0]

Then don't tell me how to vote for the person who best represents me.

If Herman Cain is the GOP guy, I'm voting GOP.

When did I tell you how to vote? I made a statement about nobama and how we need to get him out.

[roberth]

I apologize for getting pissed, you guys aren't full of crap, you just don't understand my position and I don't think you don't want to.

Do not equate my vote for a 3rd party with a vote for Obama, it is a vote for a 3rd party. I didn't vote for Obama and I never will.

I've played those political games and all I've gotten is more socialism so now I'm going to vote for real conservatives.

[Drilldov2.0]

I don't think he will get re-elected as long as there is a strong candidate that comes forward.

If Mitt Romney is supposed to be that guy....obama will in.

Sniper, do you think Romney will get the nod in the primary? He is a Rino and all hope will be lost if he does get the nod, IMO.

[sniper7]

Unfortunatly he will be re-elected.
Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.
I understand theier beliefs for a 3rd party candidate and what it could do
for out country.
But in the end when this is truely a 2 party election, their 3rd party vote will
be null and void towards getting a non democrat in office. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]


I believe the same thing. anyone who votes 3rd party...just take a look at how it affected our own colorado governors election. unless you want obama again for 4 additional years, suck it up and vote for the GOP candidate that is against obama. In the end, do you want more obama or do you want anyone else.

[DD977GM2]

Wrong again.

I don't go to the GOP, the GOP comes to me.

On this topic you're full of crap too.

Nobody tells me how to vote or blames me when their POS candiate loses, you'll lose that argument EVERY time.

Robert I dont give a damn who is on the 3rd party ballot. You dont vote against the dumnocrats
with a 3rd party vote.
I will most certainly put part of the blame on you for throwing your vote to the dumnocrats.
Im not fond of any of the GOP candidates today or in 2008. I knew and also know now that
no 3rd party voter will even come close to poll numbers the the GOP could do.

[BPTactical]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?




Look at the crap that is happening around us. I would not be the least surprised to see a "red herring" or "false flag" event occur shortly before Nov '12 that would cause martial law to be declared, Constitution null and void and election cancelled.

Cloward and Piven in action.


Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.


As far as a 3rd party- does anybody remember what happened during our last Governors race? We are seeing the same thing happen on a national level.

[Drilldov2.0]

I apologize for getting pissed, you guys aren't full of crap, you just don't understand my position and I don't think you don't want to.

Do not equate my vote for a 3rd party with a vote for Obama, it is a vote for a 3rd party. I didn't vote for Obama and I never will.

I've played those political games and all I've gotten is more socialism so now I'm going to vote for real conservatives.

We come to this site because we are like-minded, I am all ears about your position. This is why our Country is great, we can debate and have discourse about our beliefs. Let us know yours, please.

[DD977GM2]

Then don't tell me how to vote for the person who best represents me.

If Herman Cain is the GOP guy, I'm voting GOP.

Unfortunatly this isnt realistic with out 2 party system regardless of how many 3rd party candidates on the ballot,
about voting for a person with my beliefs.
If that was true I wouldnt vote for any of them because they believe
in a form of organized religion.

Voting GOP gives a solid chance not to lose any more of our Rights, especially the 2nd ammendment.

[DD977GM2]

I don't think he will get re-elected as long as there is a strong candidate that comes forward.

If Mitt Romney is supposed to be that guy....obama will in.

This scares the **** out of me. [Rant1]

[JoeT]

At what cost do I want to "teach the GOP a lesson"?

while you're repeating the facts (facts that, for the record, I actually agree with). What is the acceptable level of collateral damage our country should take while the GOP sits in their corner for a time out?

There is a time to teach a lesson, I don't think that the 2012 Presidential election is that time. Our country has too much to lose this election. Another term will cause irreversible damage.

So next year when BO is re-elected, feel good about your vote, because "it wont be your fault".





**again, I'll state that I agree with your statement that the GOP has abandoned it's party and needs to wake up and get back to it's roots.

I saw it last year in the Governer's race in Massachusetts. The 3rd party changed the outcome of the race. Tim Cahill's decision to stay in the race got Duval Patrick re-elected. Sadly we'll see this on a national scale next year.

[DD977GM2]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?




Look at the crap that is happening around us. I would not be the least surprised to see a "red herring" or "false flag" event occur shortly before Nov '12 that would cause martial law to be declared, Constitution null and void and election cancelled.

Cloward and Piven in action.


Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.


As far as a 3rd party- does anybody remember what happened during our last Governors race? We are seeing the same thing happen on a national level.

Bite your tongue sir, I ****ing hope this does not happen

[Drilldov2.0]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?




Look at the crap that is happening around us. I would not be the least surprised to see a "red herring" or "false flag" event occur shortly before Nov '12 that would cause martial law to be declared, Constitution null and void and election cancelled.

Cloward and Piven in action.


Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.

While I can see your view, (and have pondered it myself) I don't think that even this administration would attempt such a thing, YET. They do not have mechanisms in place, just now, which would facilitate such an arrogant move and there would be too many armed, objectors at this time.

[DD977GM2]

At what cost do I want to "teach the GOP a lesson"?

while you're repeating the facts (facts that, for the record, I actually agree with). What is the acceptable level of collateral damage our country should take while the GOP sits in their corner for a time out?

There is a time to teach a lesson, I don't think that the 2012 Presidential election is that time. Our country has too much to lose this election. Another term will cause irreversible damage.

So next year when BO is re-elected, feel good about your vote, because "it wont be your fault".





**again, I'll state that I agree with your statement that the GOP has abandoned it's party and needs to wake up and get back to it's roots.

I saw it last year in the Governer's race in Massachusetts. The 3rd party changed the outcome of the race. Tim Cahill's decision to stay in the race got Duval Patrick re-elected. Sadly we'll see this on a national scale next year.


I couldnt have put this statement together any better and is exactly what I was trying to get across.

[sniper7]

Sniper, do you think Romney will get the nod in the primary? He is a Rino and all hope will be lost if he does get the nod, IMO.

I can't say what will happen, I honestly have no idea. I am not a fan of him. I agree he is a Rino and not the best choice out of the group.

I like what ron paul has to say, but I fear he is too far out there for most people. His ideas are good but not realistic.

I like a decent amount of what Rick Perry is saying. I just don't think his stances on issues or the way he displays them are going to sit well with the majority of voters.

I really like Michele Bachmann. She is pretty straight forward, not much background which a lot of times is not a bad thing...look at Palin (I would vote for Palin in an instant if she ran).

Hermain Cain has some pretty good ideas as well. He has a great background, He would draw a lot of the black vote over obama. He is a great speaker as is obama, so they could have some pretty good debates IMO.

Newt Gingrich has too much history so I don't think he will get the nod.

If I had to vote for a beard as the only topic for the president, I really think jimmy McMillan would win! awesome beard!

[sniper7]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?




Look at the crap that is happening around us. I would not be the least surprised to see a "red herring" or "false flag" event occur shortly before Nov '12 that would cause martial law to be declared, Constitution null and void and election cancelled.

Cloward and Piven in action.


Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.


As far as a 3rd party- does anybody remember what happened during our last Governors race? We are seeing the same thing happen on a national level.


thanks...now I need to go order more ammo!

[sniper7]

At what cost do I want to "teach the GOP a lesson"?



nobody is going to teach the GOP a lesson. The public as a whole will be pissed off for a while, vote in somebody who gives them hope and tells them promises. The GOP followers are looking for that person right now. A lot of independents are kicking themselves right now for their dreams of Obama being the savior to all their hopes and dreams.
I honestly think that is why you are seeing a rising right now with the "occupy" people. these morons don't even know what they want...because obama told them he would give them lots of things but never said what they were. He never told them details and now they are upset their lives haven't improved dramatically and all their problems still exist or are even worse.

[stevelkinevil]

If not Ron Paul, it will be Oblowme. Unfortunately the GOP isnt smart enough to give him the nod, it'll get ugly.

[Mazin]

thanks...now I need to go order more ammo!


Uh you know we are basicly neighbors....Can I swing by when the SHTF...[Coffee]

[tmckay2]

he will without a doubt be reelected. too many guaranteed votes. even the christian right isn't a guaranteed GOP vote, but dems have several large people groups always eating out of their hand. plus, they continue to support giving free things to people who don't earn them, so those votes are obviously going to the dems. whats frightening is that group includes more people every year

[sniper7]

Uh you know we are basicly neighbors....Can I swing by when the SHTF...[Coffee]

yeah buddy!

I'll try to get some pictures of the M44...just re-finished the stock! looks great!

[sniper7]

he will without a doubt be reelected. too many guaranteed votes. even the christian right isn't a guaranteed GOP vote, but dems have several large people groups always eating out of their hand. plus, they continue to support giving free things to people who don't earn them, so those votes are obviously going to the dems. whats frightening is that group includes more people every year

yeah but read my big post. the "occupy" people need to get their pissed off energy focused at obama.

the dems always say it...never let a good crisis go to waste. it is time to take a lesson, get the fingers pointed at obama not giving them what they were promised by him and make sure they sign up to vote

[KevDen2005]

Didn't read everyone's posts but he is an incumbent. My thought is that he will flood the oil market with US oil to lower the price right before election, therefore making lots of people happy and slightly boosting the economy. He is also going to play the "I got Bin Laden" card

[Atrain1]

Unfortunatly he will be re-elected.
Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.
I understand theier beliefs for a 3rd party candidate and what it could do
for out country.
But in the end when this is truely a 2 party election, their 3rd party vote will
be null and void towards getting a non democrat in office. [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]I understand what DD977GM2 is saying. If you vote 3rd party like my brother did last election, the 3rd party is most likely not going to win, and your vote could have been used against Barack Osama.

[Drilldov2.0]

he will without a doubt be reelected. too many guaranteed votes. even the christian right isn't a guaranteed GOP vote, but dems have several large people groups always eating out of their hand. plus, they continue to support giving free things to people who don't earn them, so those votes are obviously going to the dems. whats frightening is that group includes more people every year

I'll take that bet. Nobama will not be reelected.

[Drilldov2.0]

If not Ron Paul, it will be Oblowme. Unfortunately the GOP isnt smart enough to give him the nod, it'll get ugly.

Paul, while he has a few decent ideas, would be a disaster to our country. Paulbots will help elect nobama again.

[sniper7]

Didn't read everyone's posts but he is an incumbent. My thought is that he will flood the oil market with US oil to lower the price right before election, therefore making lots of people happy and slightly boosting the economy. He is also going to play the "I got Bin Laden" card

that happens every election

[Bailey Guns]

Paul, while he has a few decent ideas, would be a disaster to our country. Paulbots will help elect nobama again.

It must be tough being a Ron Paul fanboi. Always a fantasy unfulfilled.

Let me say it again: Ron Paul WILL NOT be the GOP nominee. There are too many rational people in the country for that to happen. All you Ron Paul fanatics might as well start considering a second choice.

For cryin' out loud. I hope he's too old in 2016 to consider running again. I don't think I could take another election cycle listening to all the whining about why he's not getting the attention he deserves.

[Drilldov2.0]

It must be tough being a Ron Paul fanboi. Always a fantasy unfulfilled.

Let me say it again: Ron Paul WILL NOT be the GOP nominee. There are too many rational people in the country for that to happen. All you Ron Paul fanatics might as well start considering a second choice.

For cryin' out loud. I hope he's too old in 2016 to consider running again. I don't think I could take another election cycle listening to all the whining about why he's not getting the attention he deserves.

I seriously hope you do not think I am a Paulbot, Bailey. If you do, you didn't read the thread.

It is is pretty obvious that I am supporting Cain.

[stevelkinevil]

Paul, while he has a few decent ideas, would be a disaster to our country. Paulbots will help elect nobama again.

In all reality the establishment neo-conservatives will be at fault for that one.

[stevelkinevil]

Funny how alot of you rag "paulbots" and "paul fanbois", all the while your beloved crooked status quo replublicans are just as interested in govt. control, just in different arenas. Obviously democrats are a bunch of tards but both of em are all about more legislation and govt. control, the neo-conservatives just prefer the label everyone who doesn't go along "terrorists" angle. God forbid folks should be strict constitutionalists, both parties wipe thier arses with it when it suits them.

[Robert217]

Funny how alot of you rag "paulbots" and "paul fanbois", all the while your beloved crooked status quo replublicans are just as interested in govt. control, just in different arenas. Obviously democrats are a bunch of tards but both of em are all about more legislation and govt. control, the neo-conservatives just prefer the label everyone who doesn't go along "terrorists" angle. God forbid folks should be strict constitutionalists, both parties wipe thier arses with it when it suits them.

+1

[sniper7]

I seriously hope you do not think I am a Paulbot, Bailey. If you do, you didn't read the thread.

It is is pretty obvious that I am supporting Cain.

I think he was just continuing on your idea, not implying you are a ronbot

[Aloha_Shooter]

Fact: Without Theodore Roosevelt draining GOP votes in 1912, Woodrow Wilson would have lost to Taft.

Fact: Without Ross Perot draining GOP votes in 1992, William Jefferson Clinton would have lost to George H.W. Bush. We wouldn't have had Don't Ask Don't Tell, the Clinton Gun Ban, etc.

Fact: If Perot had run in 2000, he would have drained GOP votes resulting in the election of Albert Gore.

Fact: If Ralph Nader had been able to drain Perot-level votes from the Democrats, we wouldn't have had to deal with Obama the past three years.

In a close election, votes for a third party are effectively votes for the opposition regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on.

[tmckay2]

Funny how alot of you rag "paulbots" and "paul fanbois", all the while your beloved crooked status quo replublicans are just as interested in govt. control, just in different arenas. Obviously democrats are a bunch of tards but both of em are all about more legislation and govt. control, the neo-conservatives just prefer the label everyone who doesn't go along "terrorists" angle. God forbid folks should be strict constitutionalists, both parties wipe thier arses with it when it suits them.

the only problem i have with ron paul is he doesn't live in reality. his philosophy would work in the 1800's, maybe even early 1900's, but not today. this is a global world. communication and travel is so easy, all countries are tied in in some way economically and socially. listen to what he says. listen to what he believes about isolationism. its a nice thought but if you think about it for five seconds it would never in a million years work. to some degree, its similar to a liberal philosophy. if we leave everyone alone, they will leave us alone. unfortunately american society and culture will still flood foreign lands due to global markets. this will still piss off foreigners, foreigners will still hate us and try to destroy us, and we will have to choose between sending troops to protect ourselves and our interests, or sitting on our hands and waiting for the inevitable. his foreign policy is completely bonkers. i don't disagree with many of his basic philosophies if they could exist in reality, but unfortunately they can't.

i completely agree most republicans running are just slightly better than obama because a career politician is a career politician. thats why i like cain the most. hes not perfect, but hes realistic and not as sucked in by politics. i wish there was someone better but i don't think there is.

[Sharpienads]

I'm going with Roberth on this one. I refuse to settle for a candidate. No more political games, I'm voting for the guy I think is best for the country whether he or she is GOP or third party.

The way I see it, all you guys who are so against voting third party are the problem (unless you are actually voting for the guy or gal you want to be elected). You refuse to vote against the establishment simply because the other guy is third party.

Will things get worse before they get better? Maybe. But they will if an establishment guy on either side gets elected. Both sides take us down the same road, one party just gets us there faster.

Here's a questions for all you Ron Paul fans: If he ran on the Libertarian ticket, would you still vote for him?

I've said it before on this forum, if you really want change, it has to start at the local and state level. The restoration of America is not going to happen from the top down, it's going to happen from the bottom up, starting with you and me, our families, our neighborhoods, our schools, our communities, our cities, counties, and States. Until the American Person (not the people, the Person, the individual) demands that their State stands up against federal tyranny, nothing is going to change.

[Bailey Guns]

I think he was just continuing on your idea, not implying you are a ronbot

Exactly. "They" know who "they" are.

[roberth]

I stepped away for the evening to chill out and compose myself. Once again I apologize for my poor behavior.

This is the deal, the GOP has been presenting candidates that are less than conservative for a while now. The way I see it is that if we keep affirming these candidates and sending the GOP our votes the GOP will continue to move to the left.

The only way I can see to get the GOP to move to the right is to let the GOP lose a few races, maybe they'll see the light and start representing true conservatives again. This may also bring forth a 3rd party that will replace the GOP as the alternative to the communist Democrats, then the GOP will be the 3rd party.

I am a registered (R) so that I can vote for the conservative candidate in the primary. I don't go to the GOP, the GOP must come to me and if the GOP doesn't come to me I won't vote GOP.

Herman Cain is my guy at this point, I think the due date to announce candidacy is October 31, 2011 so we're probably looking at the entire field now.

Romney is maybe a nanometer to the right of Obama, they are essentially the same thing in my eyes. Romney is anti-2nd and he is a committed socialist, witness Romneycare. I'll never vote for Romney.

Perry is just another GOP hack who doesn't represent the best interests of the country. I'll never vote for Perry.

I like Newt and he is definitely the smartest in the bunch but he has all this baggage similar to John Edwards. I'll vote for Newt if he can win the nomination.

Bachmann is probably out and so is Santorum, now things could change but I think it is unlikely.

[roberth]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?

Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.

I agree wholeheartedly. Obama is so utterly full of himself and being encouraged all the time that I could see him declaring himself king or czar or whatever.

The Democrats are successfully splitting the country into opposing factions and their agitators will start the next round of violence and then they'll blame the Tea Party.


2. Liberals are the most evil creatures on the planet. They will never admit they were wrong so they will vote for him again to spite us all. They would vote for Stalin if they thought it would help their cause...at the cost of 40 million lives. Chump change to a liberal. One life a tragedy....

You couldn't get closer to the truth if you tried Tor.

We are truly in a battle for the United States of America and I'm not so sure it won't come down to run and gun.

[Bailey Guns]

I've stated over and over in very concrete terms why:
Ron Paul will not get the nomination on the GOP side
Why I think Ron Paul is not "all that and a bag o chips"The RPFs (Ron Paul Fanbois) won't listen to reason and they refuse to look at the facts concerning Paul. I'm done with the rational arguments against Paul because they fall on deaf ears. Much like a rational argument against Obama falls on deaf ears of a hard-core liberal.

Facts vs Emotion: The emotional argument will drown out the logical argument every time. It's no longer worth the effort.

Regarding voting for a 3rd party candidate.


At what cost do I want to "teach the GOP a lesson"?

while you're repeating the facts (facts that, for the record, I actually agree with). What is the acceptable level of collateral damage our country should take while the GOP sits in their corner for a time out?

There is a time to teach a lesson, I don't think that the 2012 Presidential election is that time. Our country has too much to lose this election. Another term will cause irreversible damage.

So next year when BO is re-elected, feel good about your vote, because "it wont be your fault".

Pretty much how I feel. Without a doubt any of the republican candidates would be a better choice than Obama. And if Ron Paul, by some miracle, does get the republican nomination you can bet your ass I'll vote for him. It doesn't appear at this time that there will be a real 3rd party candidate to worry about (aside from the usual Green Party, Constitutional Party and other fringe party types, etc...) throwing a real fly into the electoral ointment this time around like Ross Perot did several years ago. But, it's still early in the game and things can change.

Our best hope for a 3rd party candidate will be an ultra liberal who will siphon off Obama votes. There are many extreme left wackos that are unhappy with Obama's progress on a lot of issues.

Let's assume for a moment that we have the following choices when voting for a presidential candidate in the general election (I'm simply using Ron Paul as the 3rd party candidate to illustrate a point):
Obama/Democrat
Cain/Republican
Paul/3rd PartySo, let's assume that as a member of this forum Paul, the 3rd party candidate, is far and away your first choice, Cain would be your second choice and Obama wouldn't even rate as a choice...so we'll list him as an extremely distant 3rd choice simply because he's on the list.

The basic question comes down to this:
Is it acceptable to you to stand on principle, vote for Paul because you're "sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils" and thus hand the country over to Obama and his socialist cronies for another 4 disastrous years?
Because that's what will happen. So would you rather stand your ground and vote for your 1st choice on principle and feel good about yourself and what you're doing to "change the system", knowing that's the easiest way to get Obama elected? Or would you rather vote for a pretty close 2nd choice who mostly believes the way you do and because you know that's the only conceivable way to defeat Obama?

This is a no-brainer to me. I'm not going to tell you that voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away. I will tell you that voting for a fairly serious 3rd party candidate (in this instance Ron Paul) that you are all but assuring an Obama victory. That's a plain and simple truth. It's happened several times before...both to democrats and republicans.

Obama is assured of somewhere in the neighborhood of 46% to 48% of the vote without even working hard. So do the math and let me know how you come to the conclusion it's possible for either the 3rd party candidate or the republican candidate to win in this scenario.

And remember that Obama has made two appointments to the Supreme Court...both fairly radical leftists. Fortunately, they replaced solid left-leaning justices so the makeup of the court really didn't change. Are we going to be that lucky in the next 4 years?

Believing in your principles and standing firm is one thing...and most of the time it's a pretty admirable trait. But not on this. Not this time. The outcome is far too critical to the literal survival of our country as we know it.

Make no mistake about it: If Obama wins a second term because a 3rd party candidate (such as Ron Paul) draws votes away from the republican it will most certainly to some degree be the fault of voters for the 3rd party candidate.

If it comes down to something similar to this scenario voting 3rd party will not be throwing your vote away. It'll basically be a vote for Obama.

[Byte Stryke]

The basic question comes down to this:
Is it acceptable to you to stand on principle, vote for Paul because you're "sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils" and thus hand the country over to Obama and his socialist cronies for another 4 disastrous years?
Because that's what will happen. So would you rather stand your ground and vote for your 1st choice on principle and feel good about yourself and what you're doing to "change the system", knowing that's the easiest way to get Obama elected? Or would you rather vote for a pretty close 2nd choice who mostly believes the way you do and because you know that's the only conceivable way to defeat Obama?

This is a no-brainer to me. I'm not going to tell you that voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away. I will tell you that voting for a fairly serious 3rd party candidate (in this instance Ron Paul) that you are all but assuring an Obama victory. That's a plain and simple truth. It's happened several times before...both to democrats and republicans.

Obama is assured of somewhere in the neighborhood of 46% to 48% of the vote without even working hard. So do the math and let me know how you come to the conclusion it's possible for either the 3rd party candidate or the republican candidate to win in this scenario.

And remember that Obama has made two appointments to the Supreme Court...both fairly radical leftists. Fortunately, they replaced solid left-leaning justices so the makeup of the court really didn't change. Are we going to be that lucky in the next 4 years?

Believing in your principles and standing firm is one thing...and most of the time it's a pretty admirable trait. But not on this. Not this time. The outcome is far too critical to the literal survival of our country as we know it.

Make no mistake about it: If Obama wins a second term because a 3rd party candidate (such as Ron Paul) draws votes away from the republican it will most certainly to some degree be the fault of voters for the 3rd party candidate.

If it comes down to something similar to this scenario voting 3rd party will not be throwing your vote away. It'll basically be a vote for Obama.


so then it is acceptable for you to vote for someone you do not want... just so someone you do not want more will lose, because you do not think your actual candidate will win...

please let me know if I have the basic premise of this correct.

[Sharpienads]

Of course most of this wouldn't even matter if the federal government was as inconsequential to our daily lives as it was designed to be per the constitution.

Just sayin'.

[Bailey Guns]

so then it is acceptable for you to vote for someone you do not want... just so someone you do not want more will lose, because you do not think your actual candidate will win...

please let me know if I have the basic premise of this correct.

In this case? You're damn right it is. And if you can't see why then I can't help you any further. Now if all you want to do is TRY to be a smartass that's your prerogative. Or maybe you can tell me why I'm wrong? Or not.

[Bailey Guns]

Of course most of this wouldn't even matter if the federal government was as inconsequential to our daily lives as it was designed to be per the constitution.

Just sayin'.

Kyle...KYLE! Wake up...you're dreamin' again.

[roberth]

Hey Atrain1, where art thou?

[BPTactical]

Generally I have been a fierce Independent and have always gone with whom I felt represented my ideals and goals best.

But that was then, this is now.
We need to set aside our personal ideologies and concentrate our efforts on what is truly the most important goal:

Saving our Nation.

I honestly feel if BO gets a second term this nation will be irrevocably damaged.

Get it together people and set aside what you WANT and focus on what is NEEDED as a nation.
A President that has the best interest of the nation and people in mind.
And BO aint it.

Now if the GOP would just get their act together................

Sharpie- I agree that the real change begins at the lowest level but without an upper tier that will be supportive of those small changes we are just spinning our wheels.

[roberth]

Now if the GOP would just get their act together................

Exactly, please GOP don't present me with another McCain.

[TFOGGER]

What is the consensus on a ticket with Cain/Paul running together? Does anyone think that this might lure both the centrists ans the conservatives to the GOP? Or has Mr. Bread and Circuses duped enough short sighted idiots to be reelected regardless?

[Mobat555]

I am with roberth and his stance.


Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world - "No, you move."

[Bailey Guns]

Then stand firmly in place on your principles. Because principles may be all you have left after another 4 years of Obama.

[Bailey Guns]

This whole argument reminds of news stories I occasionally read regarding a person who belongs to a particular religious sect who, on religious principles or beliefs, won't allow medical treatment be given to a dying child.

The child dies. But by God they still have their principles intact. And that's what's important.

My overall belief is that I will do what is best for my country, according to my principles and my beliefs.

If that means I don't get exactly the person I want elected to the white house, but I can get the next best thing, I'll take it. Because that person is going to be far more in step with my beliefs than the other guy (Obama) and, in my opinion, the country will be far better off than having another 4 years of Obama.

In that sense, if it means Obama is out, then I firmly believe I've upheld my principles and political beliefs.

[TFOGGER]

I think there's a substantial chance that if Oblowme is reelected, he may end up being in power for a lot longer than 4 years. If the current level of discontent is fueled by continued economic problems(a virtual certainty, given his policies), civil unrest is sure to follow. Soon after, martial law and suspension of all civil rights(including elections) are inevitable. Assuming we make it to the coming election cycle without that happening, 2012 may be the last election under the current constitution. :(

[roberth]

So if I'm reading this correctly there are people here who will vote for Romney if he gets the nod?

Why would any conservative vote for Romney? The difference between Romney and Obama is barely perceptible.

[Bailey Guns]

So if I'm reading this correctly there are people here who will vote for Romney if he gets the nod?

Why would any conservative vote for Romney? The difference between Romney and Obama is barely perceptible.

That is clearly an extreme exaggeration.

I'm no fan of Mitt Romney but if you think he's Obama II, you haven't been listening:



Our next president must repeal Obamacare and replace it with market-based reforms that empower states and individuals and reduce health care costs. States and private markets, not the federal government, hold the key to improving our health care system.
The mission to restore America begins with getting our fiscal house in order. President Obama has put our nation on an unsustainable course. Spending is out of control. Yearly deficits are massive. And unless we curb Washington’s appetite for spending, the national debt will grow to the size of our entire economy this year.

As President, Mitt Romney will cut federal spending and bring much-needed reforms to entitlement programs. Mitt will work toward balancing the budget, reducing the size and reach of the federal government, and returning power to states and the people.
You'll get no argument from me that Romney is not a true conservative. But if the choice comes down to Romney, Obama and an obscure 3rd party candidate then absolutely "Yes" I will vote for Romney over anyone else.

So explain to me why that shocks you so much.

FYI: Out of the list of potential GOP candidates right now Romney would be my next to last choice...just above Ron Paul.

[Jer]

Thanks to the sheeple and the 3rd party voters who are throwing away their votes.

You're welcome.

I'm done 'throwing away my vote' on a candidate that I don't feel would be best for this country because he's slightly better than the next worst option. From now on I will sleep soundly at night knowing that I didn't waste my vote knowing that I used one of my cherished rights to vote for the individual who best represents my country. Ask yourself, isn't voting for someone you KNOW is not the right candidate -when there's a better candidate- throwing away your vote? That's a rhetorical question because I know what your answer is going to be but if you truly think of that question with an open mind you might stop berating people for following their convictions.

Ron Paul 2012!

[ghettodub]

You can thank the republican party as a whole for having such crappy candidates for 2012. Only person there I would consider voting for is Ron Paul, and he won't make it to the dance, at least I don't think he will.

Otherwise, I'm voting libertarian. I'd rather vote for what I believe than throw my vote at some clown I don't agree with. And Ron Paul isn't a libertarian IMO

[roberth]

That is clearly an extreme exaggeration.

I'm no fan of Mitt Romney but if you think he's Obama II, you haven't been listening:


You'll get no argument from me that Romney is not a true conservative. But if the choice comes down to Romney, Obama and an obscure 3rd party candidate then absolutely "Yes" I will vote for Romney over anyone else.

So explain to me why that shocks you so much.

FYI: Out of the list of potential GOP candidates right now Romney would be my next to last choice...just above Ron Paul.

I'm basing my statement on what Romney has done, not what he said he'll do.

It doesn't really shock me, I'm just kinda amazed that a person would compromise so much for so little.

[OneGuy67]

I guess I'm simplistic in this argument. I'm a registered independent, but I will be voting republican this election, whoever that candidate is. I do so solely to try to keep Obama from having another four years to damage the country with socialist ideas.

[roberth]

I'd like to see more folks register (R) and make their voice known in the primary. It doesn't mean you have to vote (R) in the main event, just go to the primary and tell the GOP what you want.

[Sharpienads]

I've stated over and over in very concrete terms Ron Paul will get the nomination on the GOP side.

I think Ron Paul is "all that and a bag o chips"

The RPFs (Ron Paul Fanbois) listen to reason and the rational arguments.

Fact: It's worth the effort.

Pretty much how I feel. You can bet your ass I'll vote for him. But, it's still early in the game and things can change.

Our best hope will be Ron Paul.

It comes down to this:
Vote for Paul because you're socialist cronies

Because you feel good about knowing Obama.

This is a no-brainer to me. I'm voting for a fairly serious Ron Paul. That's a plain and simple truth. It's happened several times before.

Man, you think you know somebody and then they drop a bombshell on you like this... Geez...















BTW, that took me waaaaayyyyyy too long to edit. [ROFL1]

[Ronin13]

I believe the same thing. anyone who votes 3rd party...just take a look at how it affected our own colorado governors election. unless you want obama again for 4 additional years, suck it up and vote for the GOP candidate that is against obama. In the end, do you want more obama or do you want anyone else.

This was the problem with the 2008 election- people wanted "Anything but a republican." I say we're going to have to vote GOP in this time just to get Owebama out of office (because we might not survive another 4 years of him, and that's a big gamble I'm not willing to take). Then, after a few months we start voicing our anger and frustration that the GOP has lost touch with it's people and needs to revert back to the better years (Reagan anyone?).

I really doubt that Obeyme will get re-elected, considering he's lost more followers in the last year and that number just gets bigger and bigger. Plus, add on that the NY Times did a poll and the majority of the Occupy f*cknuckles oppose him and his terrible policies. So maybe they're not all 100% squishy faced retards, but they're still pretty dumb and will probably vote for the Green party or something like that. What we really need, but it won't happen this time around, and it's still unlikely next time either, is a good, solid, charismatic and smart Libertarian to shake things up and get elected. Then we can see a strengthening of the 2nd, 4th and maybe a little enforcement of the 10th Amendments. Perhaps an end to the drug war, and maybe the decriminalization of MMJ (please don't start this argument, stick to the topic at hand, I'm just pointing out benefits here).

Now, if the GOP gets elected, and I hope they do, we can put an end to this BO reign of terror. I've already told several liberals (probably people who voted because he was "black"- to which I do the Aflac impression and scream out "HALF BLACK!") that it wasn't Obama that got Bin Laden, it was the US Military and Intelligence communities that did it, and they should give credit where it's due. I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor that he actually approved it, you know, him being a pu$$y liberal and all.

Do I think that 3rd party votes will benefit Obama? Probably not. Do I think he stands a better chance of re-election if a lot of people vote 3rd party, perhaps, but blame the fools who vote for him, not those who vote for anyone but him.

[Jer]

So, let's all just examine this from an outside stance for a moment:

We can all agree that BOTH parties are slowly running this country into the ground while most here agree that one party has the gas peddle pushed a little further than the other, right? So if you all love this great country so much why would you continue voting for what is WRONG to save something that is slightly more wrong?

I live in a great nation that is slowly having it's freedoms stripped away in the forms of overbearing laws and I think most here would agree... we are slowly trading freedoms for security and will soon have neither. To me this is the rabbit in the pot scenario where the rabbit was placed in the pot of room temperature water and the heat is slowly being brought up until that rabbit is dead. He will remain because it's happening slowly enough that it's not something that is even noticeable. Make no mistake gentleman, the heat is still rising and that rabbit will indeed boil.

My vote is to take that rabbit out of the pot. Now, I may be in the minority because the majority wants to cast their vote as to how quickly the heat should be raised but I can't in good conscious continue to vote for the slower heat increase like I have for the last 4 elections. I will rest at night knowing that I voted to do the right thing for the rabbit regardless of if I win or not. With each election there are more and more people voting to take the rabbit out of the pot and people are beginning to take notice. I think this election will shed even more light on this because I think that the Democratic voters who were fickle last election will be REALLY disenfranchised this go 'round and will also vote to take the rabbit out of the pot. For me, the absolute worst case scenario is that the vote gets split because of people like me and the party that wants to floor that gas peddle gets into office and the increase in heat is noticeable enough and rapid enough that the rabbit can no longer ignore the heat and stands up for itself to fight back. Now, while this isn't a guarantee that he can/will fight back it's a lot more likely if he's taken from that simmering pot and thrown immediately into a boiling pot.

You can keep voting for the party that is pushing the gas peddle a little less but I won't be responsible for this rewarding of bad behavior any longer. You can continue bitching about the rabbit in the pot or you can do something about it. One way or another, I'm doing something about it. I urge those who agree to use their vote to do the same.

Somehow I doubt that when this country was founded they expected we would use our vote to vote for 'the lesser of two evils'...

[68Charger]

All this infighting (and rightfully so) about the GOP having crap for choices, and a 3rd party independent drawing votes gave me an idea...

we need a charismatic, liberal independent candidate that promises all that Obama does and more- to draw enough votes away from him that he has no chance.

A celeb would be ideal, and one that promises all the talking points- open borders, free gov't cheese, forgive student loans- basically what the OWS movement is asking for... they won't have a chance of winning, but will ruin the chance for 4 more years of rule by obummer.

[rockhound]

What makes ya'll think there will even be an election?




Look at the crap that is happening around us. I would not be the least surprised to see a "red herring" or "false flag" event occur shortly before Nov '12 that would cause martial law to be declared, Constitution null and void and election cancelled.

Cloward and Piven in action.


Conspiracy nut?
No, but I believe this administration is fully capable of pure evil.


As far as a 3rd party- does anybody remember what happened during our last Governors race? We are seeing the same thing happen on a national level.


crap, i am going to go buy more ammo.

[BPTactical]

I guess I'm simplistic in this argument. I'm a registered independent, but I will be voting republican this election, whoever that candidate is. I do so solely to try to keep Obama from having another four years to damage the country with socialist ideas.


My point exactly- we have to set aside our ideals and do what is best for the whole.
Once we have a relatively stable and sane POTUS we can then address our individual ideals.


2012 is all about "Damage Control".
Do you want to brace the bulkheads and kick the bilge pumps into gear and stand a chance to save the ship?
Vote GOP.
Do you want to bitch and moan while the band plays on and the ship continues to sink?
Vote 3rd party and wonder why your feet are getting wetter.

The first step is ensuring that Oblameme doesn't get a second term.

Then we can deal with the rest.

[TFOGGER]

If we actually voted for the President, then our votes might actually count. With the current system, a few key states, combined with the "winner take all" rules in place in most states, decide who gets elected. The Electoral College made perfect sense in the infancy of our Republic, but for at least the last 50 years it has been made redundant by the availability of rapid communication. Perhaps it is time to rethink this process.

I have many other thoughts concerning election reform, but perhaps that should be in another thread.

[Bailey Guns]

A lot of you guys seem to want to cut off your nose to spite your face. That's your call, though.

[Ronin13]

If we actually voted for the President, then our votes might actually count. With the current system, a few key states, combined with the "winner take all" rules in place in most states, decide who gets elected. The Electoral College made perfect sense in the infancy of our Republic, but for at least the last 50 years it has been made redundant by the availability of rapid communication. Perhaps it is time to rethink this process.

I have many other thoughts concerning election reform, but perhaps that should be in another thread.

I agree here.

I do hate how it's turned into a two-party system, I hate to compare us to the Brits, but there they have 4 different parties, and in most places all four have an equal chance of winning (instead of here where it's 2 main parties, and the 4 or 5 smaller parties just rob one or the other of votes).

[Mtn.man]

I will not vote for BHO
I will not vote no no no.
I cannot take 4 more years
of looking at his big f'n ears.
I may have to go for brother cain
but never never
barack hussien.

[Bailey Guns]

I'm basing my statement on what Romney has done, not what he said he'll do.


OK. Let's base it what Obama and Romney have done:
Attend a church for 20 years where the reverend preaches "God Damn America"? Romney - NO. Obama - YES.
Attend meetings with and befriend domestic terrorists? Romney - NO. Obama - YES.
Have a substantial amount of executive experience in government? Romney - YES. Obama - NO.
Have a substantial amount of private sector business experience? Romney - YES. Obama - NO.
Have a history of associating with known communists/socialists/anti-American types of all flavors? Romney - NO. Obama - YES.Yeah...I still don't see the similarities. I'm assuming you're basing your statement on "Romney-care"?

Again...Romney isn't the most conservative guy around. But to say that he and Obama are the same is a wild, unfounded and completely inaccurate statement.

Unless you know something I don't.

[clublights]

I will not vote for BHO
I will not vote no no no.
I cannot take 4 more years
of looking at his big f'n ears.
I may have to go for brother cain
but never never
barack hussien.

Someone just earned the title "The Dr Seuss of CO-AR15"

[Bailey Guns]

I've stated over and over in very concrete terms Ron Paul will get the nomination on the GOP side.

I think Ron Paul is "all that and a bag o chips"

The RPFs (Ron Paul Fanbois) listen to reason and the rational arguments.

Fact: It's worth the effort.

Pretty much how I feel. You can bet your ass I'll vote for him. But, it's still early in the game and things can change.

Our best hope will be Ron Paul.

It comes down to this:
Vote for Paul because you're socialist croniesBecause you feel good about knowing Obama.

This is a no-brainer to me. I'm voting for a fairly serious Ron Paul. That's a plain and simple truth. It's happened several times before.Man, you think you know somebody and then they drop a bombshell on you like this... Geez...

I've been hacked!

[Mtn.man]

Thank ya- thank ya very much.

[ghettodub]

I've been hacked!

[LOL]

[rondog]

The way I see it is, there's just too many people in this country that are getting something, if not EVERYTHING, for free off of some government-provided tit. They're never going to vote for someone that might affect that tit in some way, ain't gonna happen. They're going to vote for the party that provided that tit, keeps it full, and promises more tits. That's the Democrats.

I don't care how many other "parties" there are, and how many saints and heroes they can come up with that could actually save this country. The Democrats have all the titsuckers on their side that ain't giving up what they're "entitled to", and therefore this will always be an uphill battle.

The Democrats have so many fools and parasites on their side that there's only so many sane folks left on the other side to vote against them. And I don't even need math to figure out that if you take the limited # of sane voters, and split them up between candidates, then the bad guys win by default. There's just too damn many of them and their numbers are growing. We're not all "Americans" anymore, we're the "traditional Americans" who work hard & pay taxes, etc., and the "handout Americans".

Yes, the economy sucks and is in a terrible shape. People are hurting. But as the Dems hand out more tits to those hurting, they're raking in more voters. People by and large are sheep, they don't want to hear the "right" thing, they want to hear how they can get their own tit collection. It wouldn't matter how many jobs there were available, there will always be millions who won't take them because they'd have to give up their .gov tits, and <gasp> pay taxes!

This is just how I see things in my simple mind, I ain't no politician or student of politics. Only makes sense to me that if you give 'em everything for free that you possibly can, then hell yeah they're gonna vote for YOUR side!

[stevelkinevil]

I've stated over and over in very concrete terms why:
Ron Paul will not get the nomination on the GOP side
Why I think Ron Paul is not "all that and a bag o chips"The RPFs (Ron Paul Fanbois) won't listen to reason and they refuse to look at the facts concerning Paul. I'm done with the rational arguments against Paul because they fall on deaf ears. Much like a rational argument against Obama falls on deaf ears of a hard-core liberal.

Facts vs Emotion: The emotional argument will drown out the logical argument every time. It's no longer worth the effort.

Regarding voting for a 3rd party candidate.



Pretty much how I feel. Without a doubt any of the republican candidates would be a better choice than Obama. And if Ron Paul, by some miracle, does get the republican nomination you can bet your ass I'll vote for him. It doesn't appear at this time that there will be a real 3rd party candidate to worry about (aside from the usual Green Party, Constitutional Party and other fringe party types, etc...) throwing a real fly into the electoral ointment this time around like Ross Perot did several years ago. But, it's still early in the game and things can change.

Our best hope for a 3rd party candidate will be an ultra liberal who will siphon off Obama votes. There are many extreme left wackos that are unhappy with Obama's progress on a lot of issues.

Let's assume for a moment that we have the following choices when voting for a presidential candidate in the general election (I'm simply using Ron Paul as the 3rd party candidate to illustrate a point):
Obama/Democrat
Cain/Republican
Paul/3rd PartySo, let's assume that as a member of this forum Paul, the 3rd party candidate, is far and away your first choice, Cain would be your second choice and Obama wouldn't even rate as a choice...so we'll list him as an extremely distant 3rd choice simply because he's on the list.

The basic question comes down to this:
Is it acceptable to you to stand on principle, vote for Paul because you're "sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils" and thus hand the country over to Obama and his socialist cronies for another 4 disastrous years?
Because that's what will happen. So would you rather stand your ground and vote for your 1st choice on principle and feel good about yourself and what you're doing to "change the system", knowing that's the easiest way to get Obama elected? Or would you rather vote for a pretty close 2nd choice who mostly believes the way you do and because you know that's the only conceivable way to defeat Obama?

This is a no-brainer to me. I'm not going to tell you that voting 3rd party is throwing your vote away. I will tell you that voting for a fairly serious 3rd party candidate (in this instance Ron Paul) that you are all but assuring an Obama victory. That's a plain and simple truth. It's happened several times before...both to democrats and republicans.

Obama is assured of somewhere in the neighborhood of 46% to 48% of the vote without even working hard. So do the math and let me know how you come to the conclusion it's possible for either the 3rd party candidate or the republican candidate to win in this scenario.

And remember that Obama has made two appointments to the Supreme Court...both fairly radical leftists. Fortunately, they replaced solid left-leaning justices so the makeup of the court really didn't change. Are we going to be that lucky in the next 4 years?

Believing in your principles and standing firm is one thing...and most of the time it's a pretty admirable trait. But not on this. Not this time. The outcome is far too critical to the literal survival of our country as we know it.

Make no mistake about it: If Obama wins a second term because a 3rd party candidate (such as Ron Paul) draws votes away from the republican it will most certainly to some degree be the fault of voters for the 3rd party candidate.

If it comes down to something similar to this scenario voting 3rd party will not be throwing your vote away. It'll basically be a vote for Obama.

This is the same crap both parties have been feeding us for years and exactly how this crooked 2 party system gets perpetuated. But by all means if it pleases you keep bahhh bahhhhh bahhing all the way to the polls, I will not allow myself to be headed like a good sheeple to keep these jackasses in both parties in control. The biggest problem in this country is not near enough people have the balls to vote their conscience because of the very reasons stated above. However to be fair I have considered what could happen if it allows Obama to serve another term, its a catch 22 and in the end another mechanism of control.

[JoeT]

I'd like to see more folks register (R) and make their voice known in the primary. It doesn't mean you have to vote (R) in the main event, just go to the primary and tell the GOP what you want.


As an independent I can vote in either one of the primaries.....some years I vote in the "R" others in the "D"



Now, if the Dems were smart, they would convince obama to not run for re-election and have Hillary be their ticket. She'd beat any of the GOP's offerings (for the record, I think she'd just continue on bho's tack of friggen up the country, but she'd win in a landslide)

[Bailey Guns]

This is the same crap both parties have been feeding us for years...

You're dead wrong in your description. It's not "crap", it's reality. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong. It just is.

And for the record, I voted for Perot for a lot of the same reasons you're talking about now. I've regretted that decision ever since and I think a lot of the other Perot voters do, too. Just like the Nader voters allowed Bush to beat Gore.

It feels good until reality sets in.

ETA: I also voted for Alan Keyes and Duncan Hunter in the primaries in 2000 and 2008 respectively.

[roberth]

As an independent I can vote in either one of the primaries.....some years I vote in the "R" others in the "D"



Now, if the Dems were smart, they would convince obama to not run for re-election and have Hillary be their ticket. She'd beat any of the GOP's offerings (for the record, I think she'd just continue on bho's tack of friggen up the country, but she'd win in a landslide)

Oh so you get to pick? I didn't know that, I'm not going to change but that is good to know. Thank you.

[Jer]

Oh so you get to pick? I didn't know that, I'm not going to change but that is good to know. Thank you.

Yes, Colorado is one of the states that allows Independents to vote in Primaries. I actually just learned something today as well because I was raised in Nebraska where this is NOT the case. For those of you who are interested, here is a list of states that do NOT allow those registered as an independent to vote in primaries:

- Arizona
- California
- Connecticut
- Delaware
- District of Columbia
- Florida
- Kentucky
- Maryland
- Massachusetts
- Nebraska
- New Jersey
- New Mexico
- New York
- North Carolina
- Oklahoma
- Oregon
- Pennsylvania
- Rhode Island
- South Dakota
- Utah
- West Virginia

So, as of today, I renounce my Republican affiliation. From now until they can see fit to address their internal problems I will register as an Independent and vote for the individual candidate whom I feel best represents my ideas and also best fits what it is I feel this country needs.

Edit: Being as you need to change your affiliation at least 30 days prior to an election I will be postponing this change until it is advisable.

[Ronin13]

I think Owebama is going to use stuff like this to win:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/education/26debt.html?_r=1&smid=fb-nytimes&WT.mc_id=ED-SM-E-FB-SM-LIN-PES-102611-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click


...the president would use his executive authority to expand the existing income-based repayment program with a “Pay as You Earn” option that would allow graduates to pay 10 percent of their discretionary income for 20 years and have the rest of their federal student loan debt forgiven. That plan would start next year.

Don't pay back loans 100%, great idea! Especially those federal loans, you know, because that money isn't NEEDED.

[sniper7]

I think we should all change our declared party to democrats to throw off their numbers

[Jer]

I think we should all change our declared party to democrats to throw off their numbers

Now yer thinkin'! [Pepsi]