Battle Comp

[Mick-Boy]

I first saw the Battle Comp at an EAG Tactical class in SC about two years ago. I'm generally not a fan of compensators on work guns because I don't see that the benefits equal or outweigh the costs. I'm primarily running SBRs and working indoors or out of vehicles so concussion is an issue, if not for me then for my teammates.

After reading several AARs and reviews I decided to give the Battle Comp a try. The Battle Comp was intriguing to me because there were several mentions in AARs about the Battle Comp having little or no increased flash and little increased concussion when compared to an A2 birdcage. I went with a Battle Comp 2.0 because our issue cans are the Gemtech HALO.

I ran the 2.0 for about 6 months. Primarily shooting X135 but some M855 and Mk262 Mod1 was used as well.

The first trip to the range proved that the reviewers were WAY off when comparing the flash hiding properties of the battle comp to the A2. I was Shooting next to men with rifles that were the same length and there was a noticeable difference in flash between my rifle and theirs. There was also enough concussion that the shooters to my left and right commented on it. I fired the weapon from a vehicle ONE time and decided that was a bad plan. Even with foamies and peltors it sucked. The only high point was running a magazine through the gun on full auto. There was definitely less muzzle rise then with an A2. For me this isn't really a selling point because I've NEVER flipped my gun to auto in a fight. Not one time. So I don't care much how the gun is affected on auto.

One thing I did notice is that the battle comp changes the recoil impulse of the gun enough that someone who isn't used to it may well end up pulling follow on shots low. While normal recoil on an AR is a slight push with muzzle rise to about the 1:30, the recoil impulse with a battle comp is very little push but a sharp barrel movement to the 3 o'clock. It's something to pay attention to if you're trying to control the muzzle on fast follow up shots.

Overall I was unimpressed and have since switched back to an A2. I think there are better choices out there if you're looking for a comp.

[kilovictor]

Nice write-up! Interesting to read your comments... I imagine the results would be pretty similar with the shorter BCs?

Sounds like a fun job [AR15]

[Mick-Boy]

You don't get something for nothing so ANY compensator is going to have less muzzle rise at the cost of more flash and muzzle blast. You just have to decide what's important to you. I generally don't have a use for comps on 5.56 guns because they are just NOT that hard to run aggressively without them. Honestly this was a case of me wanting to have my cake and eat it too.

I think the issue might be more one of barrel length than length of the comp. It could be a whole different animal on a 14.5 or 16 inch gun. I don't have one of those at work so I'm going to try it on one of our MK46s. If nothing else it should be fun.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

I love my BC.

It does its job good. And its not as bad as other brakes. I usually HATE brakes. Mostly because Im a HUGE A2 guy.

In all fairness...you cant really compare the BC to an A2, they are two different designs made for two entirley separate jobs.

Ill make a video for it and throw it up.

This is the only downside if you run a light forward
Even my front sight has scarring lol.

Im gonna leave it till you cant read it. Which I imagine will be another hundred rounds
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/BCScar.jpg


http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/A-Team.jpg

[kilovictor]

Dang, is that the new 8 lumen Surefire??? :) Bummer on the corrosion. I had a 1.5 BC on a 16" for a while and loved it. Never shot in CQB with it on though... Ever try the PIG for cqb?

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Dang, is that the new 8 lumen Surefire??? :) Bummer on the corrosion. I had a 1.5 BC on a 16" for a while and loved it. Never shot in CQB with it on though... Ever try the PIG for cqb?

No. Its the Mini-Scout.

Its not corrosion, it comes right off the lens and the body.

Even if it was corrosion you can replace the heads.

I wouldnt put the KX3 on, this is my carry rifle.

Not sure if you seen my video with the Troy Claymore, I have NO use for a flamethrower.
I cant have a 4' fireball at any time let alone night time.

Its just not practical.

The KX3 was designed for helping SBRs with backpressure and cycling issues

[kilovictor]

8 Lumen Surefire was a joke. Not much light going through that dust :)

I've changed the heads on my surefires. Got a link to your flamethrower vid?

Why don't you run a can?

[DANGERTASTIC!]

8 Lumen Surefire was a joke. Not much light going through that dust :)

I've changed the heads on my surefires. Got a link to your flamethrower vid?

Why don't you run a can?

Hahaha I was thinking that. I got ya.

Heres the flamethrower. I didnt want to hi-jack Micks thread.

http://youtu.be/SjYGHVuhWPU

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Heres some pics for sizing

A2, BC, Troy Claymore

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DSC01773.jpg

http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DSC01774.jpg

[Cylinder Head]

Huge fan of my BC. I've been running it for a year now and I will be putting one on my next rifle.

[AR_ART]

Gotta say I absolutely love my Battlecomp on my SCAR16. Excellent control without deafening people shooting next next to me.

So when I got my Sig716 and saw it had standard flash suppressor I promptly went out and bought a .308 version for my Sig716 since I was so happy with it on my SCAR.

Well big disappointment. It doesn't do as good a job on the 308 as it does on the .223. Where on my SCAR16 I can easily stay on target even standing and shooting at a human-sized steel target at 300 meters, I have to re-acquire the sight picture on my Sig.

Just for grins I put my PWS from my SCAR17 on it and it actually shot better.

Just my experience, its great on the .223 but is not so good on the .308

[DANGERTASTIC!]

The people next to you dont mind?

My friends HATE when I shoot next to them haha.

I gotta admit, I stand next to them when they shoot my rifle....its teeth RATTLING.

[asmo]

Somebody else running one of my SBRs sporting a BC2. I was standing next to it on the right for this picture -- I felt bad for everyone else that had been next to me all day. But it sure made my follow-up shots so much better.


https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/292343_373394222716310_478812096_n.jpg

[DANGERTASTIC!]

Ya those things are terrible to be next to, the concussion AND sound


http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DisT-iLLeD.jpg

[275RLTW]

Ya those things are terrible to be next to, the concussion AND sound



Much better than a Miculek or JP brake...Remember, It's designed to be a good compromise between a brake, comp, & FH.

[cofi]

mine leaded up like crazy when i ran my .22lr conversion.....im not a big fan and will just stick to an a2 next build

[Mick-Boy]

I'm pretty well convinced that the BC is best on a 14.5in or longer barrel. Does it work on a shorter barrel? Sure, but not well enough to make the trade off of flash and concussion worth it to me.

I would absolutely discourage people from using them on operational/defensive guns. Shooting that muzzle device indoors and out of cars SUCKS.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

I'm pretty well convinced that the BC is best on a 14.5in or longer barrel. Does it work on a shorter barrel? Sure, but not well enough to make the trade off of flash and concussion worth it to me.

I would absolutely discourage people from using them on operational/defensive guns. Shooting that muzzle device indoors and out of cars SUCKS.

I use it on my primary defensive carbine.

It sucks in vehicles but its not too bad.

I wouldnt agree with 14.5" or longer, the B.C SHINES when its on an SBR or F.A weapon.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

I love the Battlecomp, gonna throw one on the Kino soon.


Vid: http://youtu.be/0_E-Pa34hcs






http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/Danger131/DarKRoaD.jpg

[Mick-Boy]

I use it on my primary defensive carbine.

It sucks in vehicles but its not too bad.

I wouldnt agree with 14.5" or longer, the B.C SHINES when its on an SBR or F.A weapon.

If it works for your purposes then drive on. The flash and concussion wasn't worth the 5 or 10 hundredths of a second I was gaining on split times. I didn't/don't even want to imagine having to deal with it during a protracted engagement in hallways and rooms. I want to be able to hear when I get old.

I completely agree it works well on a full auto gun. But since I believe in being accountable for every round that leaves my muzzle I have never put a carbine on auto in a fight. I completely disagree that it shines on an SBR but again, if it's working for your purposes...

[DANGERTASTIC!]

If it works for your purposes then drive on. The flash and concussion wasn't worth the 5 or 10 hundredths of a second I was gaining on split times. I didn't/don't even want to imagine having to deal with it during a protracted engagement in hallways and rooms. I want to be able to hear when I get old.

I completely agree it works well on a full auto gun. But since I believe in being accountable for every round that leaves my muzzle I have never put a carbine on auto in a fight. I completely disagree that it shines on an SBR but again, if it's working for your purposes...


I can agree with a lot you're saying, but it comes down again to preference.

I don't own F.A, nor do I desire to own one, if I did then a B.C woul be on it.

I knew about the B.C WAY before I ever decided to put one on, I always wanted good shooting fundamentals so I could notice it. I think a lot of guys think that it makes them a better shooter which is completely false for obvious reasons, I also watch a lot of guys slapping the trigger and losing good fundamentals thinking its gonna compensate for it.

As far as shooting in a hallway goes, that's the last place I would want to be in an engagement an I'm pretty sure I would move, that of course, comes SECOND to the fact that if I WAS in a gunfight, my hearing would be the last thing I was thinking of. I'll just rely on our little friend "Auditory exclusion".

We don't know how one another shoots or what works best, it's preference, all I'm satin is I don't think we can discourage people from using different things simply because we're "uncomfortable" with it ourselves, we don't know the intended application.

[Mick-Boy]

We are all victims of our frame of reference.

I would caution people from counting on auditory exclusion to occur. For some it may. For me it does not.

I work in a team environment with a large part of our job occurring in cities and using civilian vehicles to move. Fighting in and from houses, cars and alleys is a fact of life. Having a muzzle device deafening the man to my left or right (or myself) is not going to make my job easier, no matter how effectively it works as a comp. It's not about being "uncomfortable" with the gear. It's about gear that makes me and mine less effective in our mission.

I live and work in a land of big boy rules. Clearly understanding your mission priorities and selecting equipment to stack the deck in your favor is an individual responsibility. As I said, if it works for you, drive on. For my use the Battlecomp had a lot of costs for very little payout. Therefore I do discourage people with similar parameters (most rifle work is interior/in vehicles) from using the Battlecomp. But again, big boy rules. Find what works for you and charlie mike.

[cofi]

mick-boy what are you running....a2 flashhider?

[Mick-Boy]

A2s and Surefire flash hiders.

[DANGERTASTIC!]

We are all victims of our frame of reference.

I would caution people from counting on auditory exclusion to occur. For some it may. For me it does not.

I work in a team environment with a large part of our job occurring in cities and using civilian vehicles to move. Fighting in and from houses, cars and alleys is a fact of life. Having a muzzle device deafening the man to my left or right (or myself) is not going to make my job easier, no matter how effectively it works as a comp. It's not about being "uncomfortable" with the gear. It's about gear that makes me and mine less effective in our mission.

I live and work in a land of big boy rules. Clearly understanding your mission priorities and selecting equipment to stack the deck in your favor is an individual responsibility. As I said, if it works for you, drive on. For my use the Battlecomp had a lot of costs for very little payout. Therefore I do discourage people with similar parameters (most rifle work is interior/in vehicles) from using the Battlecomp. But again, big boy rules. Find what works for you and charlie mike.

This is why I mostly agree with you, I however, dont stack up, I dont have anyone to my right or left and I dont work inside like you.

Its just me.

I was half joking with the Auditory Exclusion thing. Just somethin I say messin around.

The A2 is my favorite hands down, especially for a fighting carbine. THtas what I run on the Kino, a rifle I BUILT around a combat rifle.

The concusion on that thing is no joke too, its a teeth rattler.

Have you ever used a LeVang comp or tried the Claymore?

[Mick-Boy]

I've got a levang on a 10.5in upper. It seems to work to direct the muzzle blast but I want to have the ability to mount a can.

I think you and I mostly agree, were just talking past each other.

I don't think the BC is a bad product. I just know that for my uses it has more cost than benefit.

For people that do anything remotely similar to what I do, my belief is that the BC is not a good choice.

At the end of the day I just want to see good guys use everything they can to stack the desk in their favor so that when things go sideways good guys go home and bad guys bleed out.

[Beer]

[cstone]

"When things go sideways good guys go home and bad guys bleed out."

Now that there is a signature line if I ever read one. [Beer]

[275RLTW]

Run BCs on teaching guns, not on the work guns...although tempted to throw one on a SAW.

[Mick-Boy]

What's your thought process on using different setups for work and training?

[275RLTW]

1) DoS regs...just can't run a BC or anything not approved yet on their guns. The SAW may be exempted since we don't run Sims through it.

2) When teaching, I like to tailor my set up to what the student's will most likely be using, ie... never taught a CCW/civilian course in a drop rig, won't run a SWAT school in jeans & concealment gear. As the BC is designed by and for entry teams, I have it available for them to run & test to determine for themselves if it is a viable option.

I do keep some commonality between my training guns & work guns. Teaching gun is more of a T&E platform.

[Mick-Boy]

1) DoS regs...just can't run a BC or anything not approved yet on their guns. The SAW may be exempted since we don't run Sims through it.

I figured that played a part in it. You need to jump ship on the DOS nonsense. There are better clients out there. [NoEvil]



2) When teaching, I like to tailor my set up to what the student's will most likely be using, ie... never taught a CCW/civilian course in a drop rig, won't run a SWAT school in jeans & concealment gear. As the BC is designed by and for entry teams, I have it available for them to run & test to determine for themselves if it is a viable option.

I do keep some commonality between my training guns & work guns. Teaching gun is more of a T&E platform.

What length rifle do you have the BC on? What's your experience been using it for entries and CQB?

[275RLTW]

I figured that played a part in it. You need to jump ship on the DOS nonsense. There are better clients out there. [NoEvil]

I know, I know.....

What length rifle do you have the BC on? What's your experience been using it for entries and CQB?

I'm running one on my 10" gun. Since 2/3 of the agencies I've taught and talked with are using or switching to shorties for dedicated entry teams, I left it on that upper. The 14.5"+ guns don't need a comp in my opinion. I haven't been able to run it in a true, closed up house yet but even in open top dedtcated shoothouses, it will blow small picture frames off the walls when running them. When you have several of them running together, you definately pay more attention to your relative position a bit better, esuring you are on line/arch or nor sticking your face too close to a muzzle. Concussion is more noticable than an A2 of course, however with guys trying out PWS & other more agressive brakes, it is MUCH better than any other brake I've seen run. Noise is about the same as normal with 4-5 guys shooting in a shoothouse and with your comms gear and plugs in. In low light, flash is intermittent; some barely noticable, some fireballs. Depends on ammo & burn rates like any other. I definately recommend gloves if running your hand close to the end, or some sort of stop to remind you...I've seen a few burnt fingers (builds character!). The main benefit I've seen for LE is their confidence with multiple shots. They get more comfortable with 4,5,6+ rounds on target and out of the 2 shot habit. Since they don't get to spend as time and ammo as we do shooting and comfortable with a stock gun, this is where the BC shines for them. I think for those that need it, it is worth the investment & the extra concussion. Of course, there are some depts that are still using FA guns for entries & same thing...not enough time spend behind the gun & they forget their fundamentals at times & the BC helps them stay on target.

For experienced and comfortable shooters, the BC is not a lifesaver. It has some advantages and disadvantages...treat it like any other part & find out if it works for you or not. For those who don't or can't put the time in needed, it still has it's advantages and disadvantages and that shooter needs to find out for themself if it is worth it (and if their team is willing to put up with it). As for me...I see a little difference in my splits on the range. Wouldn't want to shoot it out the door of a sub though....