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electronman1729
11-02-2011, 09:31
Was driving home last night and I came across a "Drug Checkpoint" on US 36 going west. Anyone else go through this checkpoint? Even if you get stopped at a "Checkpoint" and refuse to answer any questions given by an officer can law enforcement use that as probable cause to search your vehicle? If you were carrying a loaded handgun in your car do you have to state that to an officer?

roberth
11-02-2011, 09:44
Volunteer nothing.

They don't have the right to stop you in the first place.

AR_ART
11-02-2011, 10:06
Are you sure about that? Is there something you can quote regarding that?

Not being a jerk, just wondering if you can actually "not" stop at a checkpoint. Just that people do it cause they think they "must"...



Volunteer nothing.

They don't have the right to stop you in the first place.

roberth
11-02-2011, 10:26
Are you sure about that? Is there something you can quote regarding that?

Not being a jerk, just wondering if you can actually "not" stop at a checkpoint. Just that people do it cause they think they "must"...

You're not being a jerk. The police don't have probable cause to stop you, that is why.

A DUI checkpoint assumes everyone using that particular bit of road at that particular time is drunk. The government doesn't have probable cause to think everyone is drunk.

The checkpoint violates the 4th amendment because the government illegally seizes your vehicle for a short period of time.

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/DrivingIssues/1103163004.html

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 10:42
Your link doesn't assist in your argument. According to it, the Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court and allowed DUI checkpoints.

I've never seen a Drug Checkpoint operate in my nearly 20 years of law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing which agency conducted it.

roberth
11-02-2011, 10:50
Your link doesn't assist in your argument. According to it, the Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court and allowed DUI checkpoints.

I've never seen a Drug Checkpoint operate in my nearly 20 years of law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing which agency conducted it.

Here is another one, shorter.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/09/921.asp (http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/09/921.asp)


The case was sent back to the Michigan Supreme Court to change its decision accordingly. But the Michigan Supreme Court sidestepped Rehnquist by holding that DUI checkpoints, though now permissible under the U.S. Constitution, were not permissible under the Michigan State Constitution, and ruled again in favor of the defendant -- in effect saying to Rehnquist, "If you won't protect our citizens, we will." A small number of states have since followed Michigan's example.

Did you read why Rehnquist said that checkpoints were permissable?


However, he continued, it's only a little one, and something has to be done about the "carnage" on the highways caused by drunk drivers.

Only a little one huh. What will be the governments next excuse to impeded the freedom of movement of the public and confiscate their vehicle for a short while?

Big government is the enemy of liberty, justice and freedom. The end.

alxone
11-02-2011, 10:51
I've never seen a Drug Checkpoint operate in my nearly 20 years of law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing which agency conducted it.
i have seen postings for them on 70 in kansas but not actual check point .

streetglideok
11-02-2011, 10:52
Ive seen the Border Patrol with checkpoints in border states, spot checking people, but never a full fledged drug checkpoint.
As for stopping or not stopping, law enforcement still have the right to conduct a safety inspection, road side, of your vehicle, correct? They did this routinely in Oklahoma on the backroads, to find drugs, or help bust chop shops.

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 10:55
That is why I'm interested in knowing the agency. I've been a part of DUI checkpoints and they are legal here in Colorado, but I would be interested in seeing how they ran the Drug checkpoint and see if there are any differences in how they are run. Are they looking for signs of drug intoxication, like in a DUI checkpoint, or is there other indicators? In Colorado, a K9 cannot be used like in other states without some reasonable suspicion (state court case), so stopping a vehicle and running a dog isn't going to work.

ChunkyMonkey
11-02-2011, 10:57
It's probably DUI check point.. it's odd timing though.

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 10:57
Ive seen the Border Patrol with checkpoints in border states, spot checking people, but never a full fledged drug checkpoint.
As for stopping or not stopping, law enforcement still have the right to conduct a safety inspection, road side, of your vehicle, correct? They did this routinely in Oklahoma on the backroads, to find drugs, or help bust chop shops.

Border Patrol can stop any vehicle without PC relating to the border and crossing. I forget what the term was regarding it, but it dealt with the crossing of the border.

roberth
11-02-2011, 10:59
This is the first part of the statement by Justice Rehnqust.


Chief Justice Rehnquist began his majority opinion by admitting that DUI sobriety checkpoints do, in fact, constitute a "seizure" within the language of the Fourth Amendment.

Rehnquist admits it right there that checkpoints are a violation of the 4th amendment.

One of these days someone or a group is going to stand up for their constitutional rights, then you're all going to have to pick a side.

I've made my choice.

Hoosier
11-02-2011, 11:01
I've heard of state troopers setting up a DOT temporary electronic roadside sign that said, "DUI Checkpoint 2 miles ahead", before an exit off the highway. Then they pulled over everyone who got off at that exit, and there was no DUI checkpoint.

H.

BPTactical
11-02-2011, 11:05
Drug checkpoint on the way to Boulder?
Should set one up FROM Boulder.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!

BPTactical
11-02-2011, 11:07
I've heard of state troopers setting up a DOT temporary electronic roadside sign that said, "DUI Checkpoint 2 miles ahead", before an exit off the highway. Then they pulled over everyone who got off at that exit, and there was no DUI checkpoint.

H.

Illegal as Fox Uniform Charlie Kilo if could be proven true.

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 11:07
Drug checkpoint on the way to Boulder?
Should set one up FROM Boulder.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!


No kidding![Beer]

electronman1729
11-02-2011, 11:21
I tried looking at which PD it was but it was raining a I didnt want to take my eyes off the road. BTW i live in broom field and was not heading to boulder. The check point was at the exit for the Dave and Busters/Butter Fly Pavilon. I get off at the exit for the Jeffco Airport.

Clint45
11-02-2011, 11:23
I recall DWI checkpoints in NY 20 years ago where the state police would direct drivers into a parking lot set up with a literal obstacle course constructed of orange cones, then "a representative from an insurance company" dressed up as an RN would ask every driver to submit to a breathalyzer test. If you refused she'd yell, "this guy doesn't want to take the test" and a half dozen state troopers would run up to your car and start shining lights on you and interrogating you. I hadn't been drinking so I finally agreed to take the breathalyzer and they backed off. It was nuts.

Ronin13
11-02-2011, 11:28
I'm not sure about the legality of any checkpoints- as it's a blanket of suspicion- I try to avoid them if possible. It doesn't seem like they have cause to administer a breathalyzer without probably cause, not the excuse "you drove into our checkpoint." As for a drug checkpoint, I'd be honest, tell them I do not have any illegal substances in my car. If they press the matter I ask for their specified search warrant to include my name, address, car and plate # and any drugs they are searching for. They'll say they don't have it and thus they have no legal grounds to search my vehicle.

Graves
11-02-2011, 12:08
Damn JBT's lol

Monky
11-02-2011, 12:09
Wow for as many people as here claim to be up on laws.. you should probably check out the 'Express Consent Law CRS 42-4-1301'

Go ahead and refuse to stop or be tested at a checkpoint.

It's in the booklet for the drivers lic..

Available here (http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/1212657832969).

So for everyone operating a vehicle in colorado you do have a right of refusal, but know you lose your right to drive immediately.

[Beer]

Those who have participated in DUI checkpoints should be well versed in this..

SuperiorDG
11-02-2011, 12:19
This is a ploy used by the cops. They post a sign saying DRUG CHECK POINT and wait to observe someone stashing their drugs, bam probable cause. I had an instructor in one of my CJ courses tell us about doing this very thing.

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 12:36
Without getting into a very long and drawn out discussion/explanation of the DUI laws, DUI stops and how a checkpoint (ones I've been a part of) have operated, the Expressed Consent Law isn't as simple as stated, Monky.

By and large, the Expressed Consent is you giving consent to the Chemical test of breath or blood after probable cause was established of impaired driving by the very act of driving in this state. You can refuse to provide a sample and there are administrative (non-criminal) penalties for the refusal.

In other states, if you refuse to cooperate with chemical testing, they will fax a preformatted search warrant to a judge, who will sign and order the forced taking of blood. We do not do that here in Colorado. We simply revoke your license for a year through administrative action and you still get a ticket and have a criminal court date.

So, at a checkpoint, the officer is looking for the usual signs of intoxication, alcohol on breath, bloodshot and watery eyes, slurred speech, etc. to ask the person out of a vehicle and to consent to roadside maneuvers that may further show proof of intoxication. Upon probably cause, the person would be arrested and then asked to submit to a chemical test where the Expressed consent law would then apply.

Drilldov2.0
11-02-2011, 12:44
I recall DWI checkpoints in NY 20 years ago where the state police would direct drivers into a parking lot set up with a literal obstacle course constructed of orange cones, then "a representative from an insurance company" dressed up as an RN would ask every driver to submit to a breathalyzer test. If you refused she'd yell, "this guy doesn't want to take the test" and a half dozen state troopers would run up to your car and start shining lights on you and interrogating you. I hadn't been drinking so I finally agreed to take the breathalyzer and they backed off. It was nuts.

You should have run over all of the cones turned back and parked at the entryway blocking all incoming cars.

Did NY have an implied consent law back then?

PSS
11-02-2011, 13:13
This happened in Telluride. 10 years ago.

http://archive.cortezjournal.com/archives/1news1411.htm
http://archive.cortezjournal.com/archives/1news1955.htm

PSS
11-02-2011, 13:15
Then there are fake drug checkpoints where they have concealed spotters looking for people who throw it out the window. Then they get to stop them for littering or illegal u turn setting up a potential search opportunity depending on what they threw out the window.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/300/check1.shtml

Ah Pook
11-02-2011, 14:14
This happened in Telluride. 10 years ago.

http://archive.cortezjournal.com/archives/1news1411.htm
http://archive.cortezjournal.com/archives/1news1955.htm

Telluride’s own San Miguel County Sheriff, Bill Masters, has been outspoken against the tactic and has chosen not to participate, believing such intervention violate civil liberties.
I always liked Sheriff Masters.


Thirty-one people were charged as a result of the overall operation — eight for drug-related felonies, 13 for misdemeanors, and 10 for traffic violations.

For those results, that sounds like a huge waste of resources.

ShooterJM
11-02-2011, 14:35
DUI's have stopped being about public safety and are more about revenue at this point.

glockedandloaded
11-02-2011, 14:57
Was driving home last night and I came across a "Drug Checkpoint" on US 36 going west. Anyone else go through this checkpoint? Even if you get stopped at a "Checkpoint" and refuse to answer any questions given by an officer can law enforcement use that as probable cause to search your vehicle? If you were carrying a loaded handgun in your car do you have to state that to an officer?

where exactly is this? i know this has been going on but only in border states. this is effed up and needs to be reported to the media [PoPo]

Rotterdarn
11-02-2011, 16:38
Mostly I was just pissed about the fact that they're pulling this **** during rush hour and adding 15 mins to my commute when I've already been sitting in plenty of traffic.

Byte Stryke
11-02-2011, 16:54
Mostly I was just pissed about the fact that they're pulling this **** during rush hour and adding 15 mins to my commute when I've already been sitting in plenty of traffic.

We apologize for your inconvenience Citizen. Please do not resist, Please do not Complain, we know what is best for you... we are here to protect you.

KevDen2005
11-02-2011, 17:58
Your link doesn't assist in your argument. According to it, the Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court and allowed DUI checkpoints.

I've never seen a Drug Checkpoint operate in my nearly 20 years of law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing which agency conducted it.

As always beat me to it.

And haven't been in Law Enforcement as long but have never heard of one. Also curious

CapLock
11-02-2011, 18:30
About six months ago I was driving on Moss Street in Golden and a single cop had his SUV blocking traffic. No signs or anything just him and his truck in the road. Stopped me with hand gestures and didn't ask if I had been drinking. He asked where I was going. WTF is that? I just looked at my passenger then back at the cop before I replied, "STORE". Sent me on my way. Wonder what kind of checkpoint that was?

OneGuy67
11-02-2011, 18:35
About six months ago I was driving on Moss Street in Golden and a single cop had his SUV blocking traffic. No signs or anything just him and his truck in the road. Stopped me with hand gestures and didn't ask if I had been drinking. He asked where I was going. WTF is that? I just looked at my passenger then back at the cop before I replied, "STORE". Sent me on my way. Wonder what kind of checkpoint that was?

Sounds like he wasn't doing a DUI checkpoint, but was looking for something specific.

BPTactical
11-02-2011, 19:58
Sounds like he wasn't doing a DUI checkpoint, but was looking for something specific.

Yup, that bad bad man going to the STORE!
With a passenger[Muaha]

bryjcom
11-02-2011, 21:42
Your link doesn't assist in your argument. According to it, the Supreme Court reversed the Michigan court and allowed DUI checkpoints.

I've never seen a Drug Checkpoint operate in my nearly 20 years of law enforcement. I would be interested in knowing which agency conducted it.


There was a drug check point on US287 just south of the Wyoming border which was being conducted by the Larimer County Sheriffs Office(I believe) about 4 years ago. They waved me through and didn't stop me...(I was in a work van)

glockedandloaded
11-02-2011, 21:44
welcome to nazi Germany. papers please. this is tyranny we need to recognize this and NOT stand for it.
is like to know what exactly that area was and call the PD to find out who was running it.

Rotterdarn
11-03-2011, 21:19
welcome to nazi Germany. papers please. this is tyranny we need to recognize this and NOT stand for it.
is like to know what exactly that area was and call the PD to find out who was running it.

Westbound 36 right before (after?) the off ramp for 104th/church ranch so I'd assume Westminster. I was busy watching the car they had pulled over with all the doors/trunk open and looking in the window of the cruiser to see if there was somebody in the back so I didn't catch the city name on the side.

two shoes
11-03-2011, 22:39
Sounds like he wasn't doing a DUI checkpoint, but was looking for something specific.

@ OneGuy67 - I do not want to infer something that may not be true, so I will ask you directly.

Do you support these abuses to our 4th amendment rights. If not, how do you resolve or justify your participation in them? Just curious.

two shoes
11-03-2011, 22:40
We apologize for your inconvenience Citizen. Please do not resist, Please do not Complain, we know what is best for you... we are here to protect you.

"... The Greater Good"

mcantar18c
11-03-2011, 22:48
With the amount of cartel activity here in CO, I'm not really surprised.

BPTactical
11-04-2011, 05:08
With the amount of cartel activity here in CO, I'm not really surprised.

Not to mention the Feds renewed stance on MMJ.

hollohas
11-04-2011, 08:59
DUI's have stopped being about public safety and are more about revenue at this point.

Here we go again...law enforcement is only about money...

Without getting into the constitutional legalities of DUI/drug check points, probable cause, etc... alcohol related fatalities have been cut by about 50% in Colorado in the last 25 years or so largely due to new enforcement methods. Colorado still runs an average of around 200 alcohol related traffic fatalities per year, Jefferson County and Denver County having the most.

They are without a doubt about reducing drunk and impaired driving, not about money. I will leave the argument regarding whether they are a violation of our rights to someone else...

roberth
11-04-2011, 10:46
Here we go again...law enforcement is only about money...



He didn't say that, he said DUI enforcement is all about money. Comprehension and clarity are your friends.

I agree that there are many groups cashing in on DUI arrests, lawyers, rehab, probation, and all the rest but I don't think it is all about money.

Speeding tickets, now that is all about money and absolutely nothing else.

hollohas
11-04-2011, 11:45
He didn't say that, he said DUI enforcement is all about money. Comprehension and clarity are your friends.

I agree that there are many groups cashing in on DUI arrests, lawyers, rehab, probation, and all the rest but I don't think it is all about money.

Speeding tickets, now that is all about money and absolutely nothing else.

The first part of my comment was not directed solely at whom I quoted and that is clear in the words I wrote. It is a fairly constant theme on here from some members that police only do their job because they want revenue. There were threads only a couple days ago, among countless others, about speed traps and dog leash laws that blamed it on LE revenue grabbing. Which again you give an example of in your last sentence here.

When you read my entire post you see I then specifically focused on DUI/drug check points and not LE in general, Mr. Comprehension.

OneGuy67
11-04-2011, 12:09
@ OneGuy67 - I do not want to infer something that may not be true, so I will ask you directly.

Do you support these abuses to our 4th amendment rights. If not, how do you resolve or justify your participation in them? Just curious.


I don't consider it an abuse of the 4th Amendment within proper, outlined and specific parameters. A "Hi, how are you? I'm Officer So and So with the X Police Department. Here is a brochure on alcohol and driving. Hve a good night." to a person through a window and looking for signs of intoxication are not outrageous, in my opinion. Your opinion may differ; my opinion is at least set with case law regarding it.

hatidua
11-04-2011, 12:37
With the amount of cartel activity here in CO, I'm not really surprised.

I'm not surprised, but find it well short of effective. If the drug smuggling types weren't somewhat intelligent, they wouldn't manage to get many tons of the stuff into customers hands in this country annually.

I've been stopped countless times by the Federales (Mexican Federal Police, not the mordida-seeking guy on the corner in Nogales or Playa) while driving on lonely desolate roads in Mexico and while they have always been polite, professional, and courteous, their location is likely well known to anyone who is seriously considering smuggling things. Likewise, if an actual drug interdiction roadblock is set up in the U.S., you can be sure that word of it has spread to those who smuggle drugs before the first recreational user is nabbed. But, politics are always involved and if such checkpoints exist, I'd be curious to know how long they existed before local elections ;)

glockedandloaded
11-04-2011, 12:52
I don't consider it an abuse of the 4th Amendment within proper, outlined and specific parameters. A "Hi, how are you? I'm Officer So and So with the X Police Department. Here is a brochure on alcohol and driving. Hve a good night." to a person through a window and looking for signs of intoxication are not outrageous, in my opinion. Your opinion may differ; my opinion is at least set with case law regarding it.

Then youll love their FEMA camps.
its just to keep u safe. realx

OneGuy67
11-04-2011, 14:38
Then youll love their FEMA camps.
its just to keep u safe. realx

We've had a thread on the alleged FEMA camps here. Re-read it. I hear King Soopers is having a sale on tin foil. Go stock up.