Parkerizing

[CrufflerSteve]

I haven't been around lately but I thought 'd show my first attempts at parkerizing.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/OldGeezerStuff/AK%20Kits/Parkerizing/park04_1024.jpg
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/OldGeezerStuff/AK%20Kits/Parkerizing/park05_1024.jpg

I used Shooter's Solution Manganese Park. First I degreased them and blasted them with 120 Aluminum Oxide. The parts were soaked in warm distilled water then Shooter's Solution Mang Prep. In between all these steps I rinsed them off with distilled water. Then it was into the park solution at about 185 degrees for about 20 minutes. Then into Caswell Black Oxide for 5 minutes then Caswell Penetrating Sealer to finish. I used some silicon corks to seal the barrels but these were chrome anyways.

I did two one weekend and two the next weekend. The first two, including the Zombie Ax weren't adequately degreased so I ended up with a few bad spots. The ax came out uneven since it wouldn't fit into the Black Oxide well. The next two came out much better. One is now in Seattle with my son. He built it.

The next weekend I cleaned better. I'm not so sure about Caswell Sealer. Might try Shooter's Solution stuff next time.

Here's the setup. I had a 2000 Watt heater in the Park tank and a propane stove underneath. The propane provided most of the heat. I used some scrap steel under the tank to diffuse it.

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k629/OldGeezerStuff/AK%20Kits/Parkerizing/park02_1024.jpg

I do need to get a top for the park tank. It was really steaming off. The other pieces were made of rain gutter.

I can loan the tanks and propane stove to any local builders. I do have some extra mang prep and black oxide. The mang park solution has a limited life so I'm hanging onto it.

Steve

[jreifsch80]

oh my gosh steve you're still alive!!!! lol good to see you around, looks like you have a pretty decent phosphate coating setup, i might have to come visit you sometime haha

[zteknik]

Nice to see your still around Steve!!
Came out good!!
I thought the black oxide was suppose to make it a tad darker?
I hear of differnt ways to do it-some say black ox first-then park,then others do it the other way around.I have some casewells I should play arround with on some scrap.

So how do you like akamanators stock?I've been meaning to get one but got too busy bs'ing with Keith and forgot to get one :(

[Parf]

Looks good!

[BPTactical]

Long time no see Steve!
What you are seeing as bubbles is actually "off gassing" of hydrogen.
The darkening agents really aren't needed nor are the special sealers and such.
Soaking in used motor oil for a few days or smearing with dark grease will do the same.

[CrufflerSteve]

These did come out of the Park with different pieces like barrel, receiver, rivets close but mildly different shades. It came out of the black oxide very uniform and black.

I took the pictures with a flash which lightened them a bit but they are a gray/black leaning to black. They have a light gloss.

BP, I'd read about the gunky oil method but this is cleaner and less smelly.

The Caswell Penetrating sealer had to be removed completely and didn't want to leave. I found scrubbing in hot water with Purple Zep and a soft brush got it off if it had dried on. It really caked hard. Thought I was going to remove the park. That's why I'll probably us something different, maybe even used motoroil.

I'd read about people using Black Oxide before and after but I wanted to see what the park did to bare metal.

I do like akamanator's stock.

Steve

[jreifsch80]

So what are the chances I could someday lure you and your park tanks up to Jim's or my warehouse for a refinishing party? Lol

[CrufflerSteve]

So what are the chances I could someday lure you and your park tanks up to Jim's or my warehouse for a refinishing party? Lol

I'd be open to that. The prep work would ideally be done before. Degreasing and blasting is a lot of work. I found it hard to get all grease out. I use lots of cutting oil and the gas tubes have cosmoline worked into it. One way I found some of it was by letting it sit dusty after blasting. It drew the oil out. I removed the oily dust, degreased and did a quick blast. This could be done ahead of time but you'd have to keep it dry and untouched by bare hands. I have a cabinet and so-so compressor. I'm sure there are others out there.

I know the Park solution can only do so much since the Manganese goes. I'm not sure how much.

I just don't like paint for finishing. Park & bluing have depth. I also really need a cover for the park tank. A sheet of stainless or aluminum would work. It was really steaming off.

I'm open to suggestions.

Steve

[jreifsch80]

for manganese or zinc could we use manganese oxide or zinc oxide? i can get those at my work by the oz,lb or 50lb bag ;) for a cover we could figure something out. and yes the prep work would be best to be done before hand, jim and i both have blasting cabinets and 60 gallon compressors. sounds do-able but would take careful planning. i would maybe pop a bunch of barrels and just park some receivers with trunnions on models i want to paint (my 74, amd) and i need to refinish my draco carbine. or maybe we could finally make some park tanks and have the supplies ready and if you're able to come up you could help us set up a setup up here.

[CrufflerSteve]

Justin,

You could mix up your own solution. I believe you could find some recipes on the gunboards. I believe it is oxalic acid, or phosphoric? and the manganese oxide (or whatever is used). There is also zinc parkerizing which is way lighter.

You could do some experiments since it wouldn't just require much, just a stainless steel pot and scrap steel. I thought about this but decided to pay the money for something already optimal. People say good stuff about Shooter's Solution and I like it. AK parts have gone so crazy expensive it seemed worth it.

I think you might even be able to park an assembled piece with some parts painted. I learned the hard way it wants bare metal only. My blasting cabinet has red paint and the first two I did a scraped a little paint off on the triggerguard and other edges. That red made it through the park and was quite a shock. Fortunately it was little scrapes and I've tried to hide it. I would ask the experts before trying it.

The only tank that costs anything is the park and you can borrow it whenever. I plan to do another few in late summer. The other three are from one 10 foot piece of Home Depot rain gutter and edges. I cut it up and crimped the edges with caulk and they work.

One area to experiment is the blasting. I used 120 grit aluminum oxide. I've seen some people use heavier grit and other stuff like beads. I've been thinking about a lighter blast on some pistols that could use a finish. It certainly isn't a blue but it might look good.

Steve

[jreifsch80]

ah very good info steve, for a lighter blast jim has good luck with walnut shell media.

[CrufflerSteve]

ah very good info steve, for a lighter blast jim has good luck with walnut shell media.

I wonder if that might be too light. Here's someone doing a Norinco 1911A1. http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/parkerizing/ Looks pretty good with bead blasting. I had one of them and wish I still had it. It was your basic 1911 and worked great.

This guy has some interesting thought about parkerizing. http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/parkerizing-truth-vs-tales.html

I am not at all saying that parkerizing should replace bluing. If I ever suggest doing this a Colt revolver come over and kick the crap out of me. Military type handguns could benefit from this when holster wear is bad.

Steve

[zteknik]

Interesting links Steve-thanks
I allways thought bead blasting wasn't agressive enough and didn't give the metal the tooth for the park to adhere to.
I guess though if it were abrasive enough it would work.

I agree, theres just some weapons yhat you just keep blued and others that you park.
Be odd to see a Garand blued now wouldn't it? Or a parked Peacemaker?

I cant wait untill I'm finaly out there-I'd like to improve my techniques on bluing and parking as well-plus you have to show me how to do the pine tar majic :)

[jreifsch80]

no no no no bluing is much better ;) parking is just not as caustic lol and somewhat easier

i sooooo wish i had a norinco 1911. yeah bead blasting looks like it might be the ticket hey bead blast then blue to get the satin blue.

yeah if you ever even consider parking any wheel gun (though were military contract webleys blued or parked?) then i'll come rescue them lol

[jreifsch80]

Interesting links Steve-thanks
I allways thought bead blasting wasn't agressive enough and didn't give the metal the tooth for the park to adhere to.
I guess though if it were abrasive enough it would work.

I agree, theres just some weapons yhat you just keep blued and others that you park.
Be odd to see a Garand blued now wouldn't it? Or a parked Peacemaker?

I cant wait untill I'm finaly out there-I'd like to improve my techniques on bluing and parking as well-plus you have to show me how to do the pine tar majic :)

that's why i was never over excited about century yugos, seeing a parked m76 or m70 makes me vomit in my mouth lol

[zteknik]

I dont know-I see a Polish Tantal parked and I think to myself WTF?
I would blue it instead,or at least squid paint the thing.

[jreifsch80]

early ones were blued weren't they?

[zteknik]

As far as I know they were blued or black oxided.
It wasn't untill later thay parked them then they did the squid paint.
Most of the Century ones I ever saw were parked.

[jreifsch80]

bob you should to a "wzpkms" like that guy on the ak forum

[zteknik]

I could probably do that with my leftovers :)
I will do a Bulgy 74 with the Polish underfolder.
I still have to come up with a name for it.< ???>
Bulgish? Polgy?? I dunno....

[jreifsch80]

pkms-74?

[zteknik]

That works :)

[jreifsch80]

hmm whats with us and hijacking threads today? haha this and the sticky thread have been ruined by us haha

[zteknik]

I wouldn't say ruined-some of it was actualy helpfull.

And now back to our regurly scheduled thread.

[Great-Kazoo]

for manganese or zinc could we use manganese oxide or zinc oxide? i can get those at my work by the oz,lb or 50lb bag ;) for a cover we could figure something out. and yes the prep work would be best to be done before hand, jim and i both have blasting cabinets and 60 gallon compressors. sounds do-able but would take careful planning. i would maybe pop a bunch of barrels and just park some receivers with trunnions on models i want to paint (my 74, amd) and i need to refinish my draco carbine. or maybe we could finally make some park tanks and have the supplies ready and if you're able to come up you could help us set up a setup up here.


I'd give baking soda blasting a try, BUT.......................................... my supplier never produced.
I have done some stainless with reductions in grit till they were super smooth and polished. Maybe try this on a truck gun, if it were lined up for bluing.

[zteknik]

I have a few projects jim that I'd be willing to try it on.
Come to think of it,my Yugo would be a perfect candidate.I want to sorta preserve the bfpu look,and at the same time keep it from looking like a turd.


Who has a tank big enough to use for bluing? I know Steve has one for parking,and you realy shouldnt use stainless for bluing.

[CrufflerSteve]

I have a few projects jim that I'd be willing to try it on.
Come to think of it,my Yugo would be a perfect candidate.I want to sorta preserve the bfpu look,and at the same time keep it from looking like a turd.


Who has a tank big enough to use for bluing? I know Steve has one for parking,and you realy shouldnt use stainless for bluing.

Would coated aluminium rain gutter work? That's what I use for the other liquids. It is a cheap way to go.

If you're looking for a cool finish you should look at the Black Krome over at Caswell. I think AK's are too crude for it, showing machining and all. I'd be tempted for some things but it is an investment. First you need a heavyweight polishing machine and all the wheels and grits. Then you need the solution. It could be really cool for pistols but you could spend weeks polishing up an AK.

Steve

[zteknik]

I dont know if the aluminum would fair well with the bluing salts.I can allways take a peice and try.

I did see the Black Krome .Looks real nice when done.It would be a chore to polish up an ak so you dont see the machine marks and such.
You can probably get away fairly cheap using whatever tools on hand,but it would be labor intensive and IMHO probably not worth the effort,unless its like a minty tula or something high profile.

[jreifsch80]

For hot bluing just black iron is needed

[Great-Kazoo]

Sewer pipe is black iron. I powder coated 2 fn's years back and they came out alright. Prep is the biggest item to getting a good finish.

[zteknik]

No doubt about it jim,the prep work is the most important.If your gonna do shortcuts dont do it on the prep work.
Its like when I learned bodywork.Any slight bit of oil will mess the whole thing up.

Degrease THOROUGHLY!! And dont touch it with your bare hands. I alo learned you have to degrease the stuff you are going to use as well-tanks,tools even the steel wool.

[CrufflerSteve]

I'll second that. Grease is the enemy. It's especially sneaky on the front and back of the gas tube and all my rivets. I am very generous with penetrant first and then cutting oil when doing holes so there is a lot of grease there. The gas tubes have old cosmoline.

I used purple Zep for initial scrubbing and then brake cleaner. I also discovered by accident that it is a great idea to blast a few days before the park. If the parts are left dusty, it pulls the grease out. I have a pack of disposable gloves so I never touch the metal once I'm done with the water degreasing. I also keep spray brake cleaner around so I can clean any tools I'll use.

Steve

[zteknik]

Yes thats a great idea Steve.I usualy let the parts sit for a couple of days after blasting as well.Although I try to degrease a bit before blasting-keeps the material clean'
I haven't tried Zep,we have whats called HotShot at work and it's probably the same thing just a different brand.

Usualy for my first degrease i boil the parts in hot soapy water for a bit and go on from there.Ive had to do Yugo parts a couple of times-I think they mix concrete in with their cosmoline.