Accurate lightweight rifle build -- pipe dream? [Archive] - Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums

michael_aos

12-08-2006, 13:53

Is it possible to put together a scoped (10-15x, 40-50mm, external windage and elevation) rifle that can consistently sustain MOA or better accuracy @ maybe 500yds and weigh less-than 9lbs? 8lbs?

Just talking about punching paper or smacking steel.

Bolt-action or semi-auto, doesn't really matter. Preferably either 223 Remington or 260 Remington.

Remington website lists the 700P LTR .223 @ 8.5lbs, but I think it's heavier and that, plus what...1.5-2lbs for scope & mounts?

Model 700 LV SF in .223 @ 6.75lbs is close, but 1:12" twist doesn't excite me.

The new Ruger M77 Hawkeye .223 has a 1:9" twist, but it's 7.25lbs without a scope. Probably 9.25lbs, scoped.

The JP Enterprises JP-15 is available in a 6.5lb configuration with an 18" ultralight barrel. That's probably pretty close.

Mike

michael_aos

12-08-2006, 14:06

I guess I should add, I have a Remington 700 titanium in 260 Remington, with a Leupold VX-L 4.5-14x50mm VX-L scope. S&K sculptured mount, S&K Kontoured rings.

Weighs about 7lbs, complete.

Carries like you wouldn't believe. I hiked a lot of miles this year carrying it, and marveled at the light weight the entire time. It's awesome.

I haven't shot it a LOT by any means, but so far I'm seeing groups like 4" @ 200yds / 6" @ 300yds. I've been taking extra care not heat the ultralight barrel up too much.

Mike

JohnTRourke

12-08-2006, 15:35

call these guys
Paul or Wes

www.mstn.biz

12-08-2006, 22:34

A custom bolt will get easily were you want to be...A friend of mine has a high dollar 7 WM that easily meets your qualifications, and I bet it weighs 9 lbs loaded. Not to mention, it kicks like a 22-250.....

Pretty much anything is possible, it just depends on the thickness of your wallet!

michael_aos

12-09-2006, 17:15

The Ed Brown Compact Varmint sounds neat (price tag aside), but it's still 8.75lbs. I guess I'm wondering if its just a fact of life that a rifle has to be relatively heavy to shoot well.

http://www.edbrown.com/images/longguns/light-tactical.jpg

That Model 700 LV SF I mentioned starts to sound like quite a bargain, even considering the extra cost of adding a good fast-twist barrel.

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/centerfire/lgsil_700lvsf.jpg

Colorado Osprey

12-09-2006, 17:28

What about a carbon fiber tension barrel with a Stainless tube?

Remington was making them for a while...all the stiffness of a true bull barrel, but lighter than a light weight barrel.

These were the folks making the barrels for Remy:
Christiansen Arms
http://www.christensenarms.com/

$599 and they will turn down your barrel and cabon fiber wrap or buy a complete barrel or a complete rifle from 5.5#'s with synthetic stock or 7# with wood.

EDIT: Using one of Remy's Ti actions will lighten stuff up too...and is an option through Christiansen Arms

mr_will

12-10-2006, 00:14

I have a Tikka T3 Lite and out of the box with rings, it weighs 6lb 3oz
so add a scope and a bi pod and you are probably goin to be in the 7.5lb area, depending on your scope

Are you goin to be out there tomorrow, I can throw it in my truck and let you look at it, It is brand new in the box. I need an optic for it badly so i can start shooting it.

michael_aos

12-10-2006, 10:35

I have a Tikka T3 Lite and out of the box with rings, it weighs 6lb 3oz

Just started poking around and saw the Tikka T3 Lite Stainless.

1:8" twist, 6lbs 3oz in .223.

Very cool.

Also a 6.1lb T3 Super Varmint (PDF lists 3.7kg = >8lbs).

http://www.berettausa.com/productphotos/rifles/Tikka_SuperVarmint.jpg

6lb 10oz Tikka T3 Varmint Stainless.

http://www.berettausa.com/productphotos/rifles/TikkaT3_Varmint_Stainless.jpg

thedave1164

12-10-2006, 15:14

Kifaru has a light weight rifle, that is scary light, and accurate.

Kifaru Rambling Rifle, under 5lbs with a scope.....

westy1970

12-10-2006, 17:22

If you want cheap and light, go with a Savage and Barska Swat scope. You can get it .223 with a sporter stock for under $500 and the scope for under $300. There was an article in SOF about 2 or 3 months ago about that rifle. I have a Savage with a McMillan Stock so does not even come close to your weight specs. Jensen Arms had a lot of the sporter stock in stock last time I was there.http://savagearms.com/images/centerfire/lawenf/10fp_sala.jpg

http://savagearms.com/10fp.htm

mr_will

12-10-2006, 17:35

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 17:44

I looked at:

Tikka T3 Super Varmint in .308
Tikka T3 Varmint Stainless in .223
Tikka T3 Tactical (20" bbl) in .223

The Varmint Stainless and Super Varmint are far heavier than the weight listed on the Beretta website.

I was very impressed with the bolt operation on all of them. I only tried the trigger on the Super Varmint, but it was awesome.

The T3 Tactical in .223 is similar to the 700P LTR that I've lusted after for years. I wonder if the polymer magazine is better than the HS Precision 223 magazines I've tried previously? They pretty much sucked.

Mike

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 18:23

cheap

Not so worried about inexpensive "cost of admission".

Lets say ballpark $.40/rd to load premium 260 Remington ammo.

Maybe $500 for a good barrel, and roughly 3K/rds per barrel.

So I'm going to spend like $1700 just shooting the thing.

I can probably shoot 6800rds of premium .223 handloads for that kind of money.

Mike

Hoser

12-11-2006, 19:34

I wonder if the polymer magazine is better than the HS Precision 223 magazines I've tried previously? They pretty much sucked.
Tried to tell you...

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 19:38

Tried to tell you...

I know, I know....

I misunderstood. I thought you were telling me the .223 bolt-gun was a bad idea. Not the magazines.

Mike

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 20:33

So is there any kind of rule-of-thumb, that says a rifle less than 12lbs (or whatever) won't consistently shoot worth a crap?

Mike

Colorado Osprey

12-11-2006, 21:01

I think the hard part is the MOA at 500 yards in a .223

I mean most any quality .223 will shoot MOA at 100 yards...that's not the hard part...it's when you introduced that 500 yards thingy that things got tough. Even with match ammo and a sled or rail gun I wouldn't bet on MOA at 500 yards.

So, to get rid of some of the variables, to help you achieve your goal, a heavy style barrel might help...but then it blows your weight requirement...that's why I recommened a tension barrel....less weight but stiff barrel capable of rapid cooling.

"So is there any kind of rule-of-thumb, that says a rifle less than 12lbs (or whatever) won't consistently shoot worth a crap?"

No, I have a .223 Savage 111 Chieftain (9#'s w/scope and bi-pod) that will do MOA, but not at 500 yards even with match ammo.....300 yards...yes. I'd say consistent MOA at 300 yards isn't crap even if the rifle only cost me $250 new about 10 years and 10,000 rounds ago.

Hoser

12-11-2006, 21:27

I think the hard part is the MOA at 500 yards in a .223

Plenty of guys achieve MOA or real close to it at 600 yards at Camp Perry every year with a 223. And with iron sights no less...

The problem with holding MOA past 100-200 isnt the caliber, it is the shooters ability to read the wind.

I cant get hung up on a perfect weight. If it carries nice and will hit minute of elk at 300 yards, it doesent matter if its a 5 pound rifle or a 25 pound rifle.

My Remington 700 Ti 6.5-284 shoots fine and carries nice. I wanted a lightweight hunting gun and thats what I got. I was not expecting a benchrest rifle and the accuracy to go with it. My load development pretty much was three 5 shot groups at 425 yards. The warmest one was just inside 5 inches. Slight cratering of the primer and the bolt still opened just fine. Done. Didnt want to work any harder.

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 21:28

OK, lets change that to 400yds.

Hell, even 300yds is probably fine.

My initial thinking was that my AR-10 in 260 Remington shoots sub-MOA @ 500yds. But I don't need to KILL the steel, I just need to hit it.

I was just thinking it would be nice to shoot something accurate for just "screwing around" that doesn't cost me $.57/rd and weigh 15lbs.

Mike

michael_aos

12-11-2006, 21:30

Plenty of guys achieve MOA or real close to it at 600 yards at Camp Perry every year with a 223. And with iron sights no less...

The problem with holding MOA past 100-200 isnt the caliber, it is the shooters ability to read the wind.

Yeah, I was thinking I could get plenty good accuracy w/77gr SMK's out to 500yds, especially with a kick-butt scope.

Mike

michael_aos

12-15-2006, 16:22

Anybody know anything about these Ruger compacts?

Short, light 260...

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/107L.jpg

According to my calculations (500yds), I can get more more velocity and less drop and less wind from a 16.5" 260, shooting 108-123gr bullets than a 20" .223 shooting 69gr or 77gr SMK's.

Mike

Great-Kazoo

12-15-2006, 23:50