Anyone carry an FN Five Seven?

[sevenstacks]

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Joel

[Monky]

I'll carry it when the zombies attack. Till then, I'll save it for fun at the range.

[cstone]

Pricey ammunition. Difficult to reload.

Very nice pistol if you also have a PS90 for compatability.

Thats all I have.

[stevelkinevil]

Im thinking of carrying one as a winter carry gun, although it has a large frame its ridiculously light weight.

[Wulf202]

Ballistics of a 22magnum. cost of a 308. Clunky trigger. Twice the purchase price of a reliable polymer pistol, glock/sheild

I did alot of research on the caliber, basically it fails miserably to penetrate the 10" the FBI shootout review suggests. Maybe I could dig up the research if you're real interested.

[jmg8550]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U40ArShS6M
'nuff said

Wulf...tell us how you really fell about the 5.7. Sounds like you really hate that pistol and caliber.

[ruthabagah]

Ballistics of a 22magnum. cost of a 308. Clunky trigger. Twice the purchase price of a reliable polymer pistol, glock/sheild

I did alot of research on the caliber, basically it fails miserably to penetrate the 10" the FBI shootout review suggests. Maybe I could dig up the research if you're real interested.

Basically all the lies ever told on the 5.7 condensed in one post.

(note: The below comment is in NO WAY an endorsement of the action of a terrorist, but a demonstration of the dangerosity of the 5.7 round)

Unfortunately the ballistic power of the 5.7 came to light in a brutal matter during the fort hood shooting. Of the 43 casualties (13 death) one victim had her arm nearly severed by the tumbling effect of 1 round of 5.7.

[stevelkinevil]

Correct. The 5.7 is an effective round, contained in a very light weight and very high capacity weapon systems. The ammo is no more expensive than .45, the haters are frankly just ill informed.

[Wulf202]

Damnit i just lost a huge reply.

5.7mm 28 gr SS195LF JHP from a 10.5" barrel 2,350 ft/s makes 344 ft lbs



Here's articles by researchers you can read yourself

--Dahlstrom D, Powley K, and Gordon C: “Wound Profile of the FN Cartridge (SS 190) Fired from the FN P90 Submachine Gun". Wound Ballistic Review. 4(3):21-26; Spring 2000.

--Fackler M: "Errors & Omissions", Wound Ballistic Review. 1(1):46; Winter 1991.

--Fackler M: "More on the Bizarre Fabrique National P-90", Wound Ballistic Review. 3(1):44-45; 1997.

--FBI Academy Firearms Training Unit. FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests 1989-1995. Quantico, U.S. Department of Justice--Federal Bureau of Investigation.

--Hayes C: “Personal Defense Weapons—Answer in Search of a Question”, Wound Ballistic Review. 5(1):30-36; Spring 2001.

--Roberts G: “Preliminary Evaluation of the Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 23 Grain FMJ Bullet Fired by the New FN P-90 , Using 10% Ordnance Gelatin as a Tissue Simulant”, AFTE Journal. 30(2):326-329, Spring 1998.

--Roberts G: “Terminal Performance of the 5.7 x 28 mm 31 Grain SS-190 FMJ Bullet Fired by the FN P-90 in 10% Ordnance Gelatin.”, AFTE Journal. In Press.

[SA Friday]

Nice post Wulf.

[ruthabagah]

Yep: The usual suspect. First, those are really old opinion and they did not prevent the us secret service from adopting the P90 in the early 2000'. Most of them do not own any titles and are/have been known to either be total keyboard warrior, or self titled expert.
FYI: Dr Roberts is a Dentist....
Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching
hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery.

[Wulf202]

Yep: The usual suspect. First, those are really old opinion and they did not prevent the us secret service from adopting the P90 in the early 2000'. Most of them do not own any titles and are/have been known to either be total keyboard warrior, or self titled expert.
FYI: Dr Roberts is a Dentist....
Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching
hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery.


First, I've never claimed to to be an expert if you're trying to take shots at me, this is not the place.

The cartridge has been around for 20 years, 10 years into it there was extensive research on it. The research resulted in some design improvements of the bullets they load.

More recent cartridges do much better in ballistic gel almost as good as an off the shelf 9mm.

RE Dr. Roberts; a doctor dealing with major trauma kind of reinforces his opinion for me.

As far as the secret service adopting it what's your point?

The wound it creates is comparable to 115gr 9mm out of a glock or 22mag out of a rifle.

As far as my opinion of the cartridge, shooting anything is fun. The ammo is expensive and i'm a cheap bastard.

As far as my opinion of the pistol, in dry firing I found the trigger clunky. The gun is comparable in size to a glock 17, making it a bit of a chore to conceal. It costs about $1000 new literally twice the price of a glock or what have you.

If you wind up in a defensive shooting you have several factors going against you in the legal department. There's a thread about the triggers and prosecutors demonizing you it wouldn't be hard to infer you're carrying around a gun designed to go thru body armor. Plus the cops are now holding onto your $1000 carry gun in their evidence locker you may or may not see it again.

Given all that why would you choose to carry it?

If you just want to carry it go for it. I'd rather have everyone carrying something rather than nothing.

[spqrzilla]

I've fired two of the 5.7mm pistols and both could not hit the broad side of a barn. Now that's not necessarily enough to be sure, but I've seen enough other commentary of poor accuracy to be put off the pistol.

[ruthabagah]

As far as the secret service adopting it what's your point?

They know better then you do

glock
glock 17
$1000 new literally twice the price of a glock

Did you say Glock? I say: Fan boy! It's hopeless...

[stevelkinevil]

I've fired two of the 5.7mm pistols and both could not hit the broad side of a barn. Now that's not necessarily enough to be sure, but I've seen enough other commentary of poor accuracy to be put off the pistol.

Never heard this, as a matter of fact quite the opposite. And for the complaint of ammo prices, again if you shoot a 45 your spending just as much as the five seven. Also check out brassfetchers tests of the round, impressive, especially considering the super low recoil.

[HandKBRad]

I've never carried mine. Maybe if I had a nice holster, I would carry it every once and awhile. I got my FiveseveN and some ss192 just before the Brady Bunch had a hard on to get it banned.

IMHO I find the accuracy is ok. When ever I hear some one say that the ammo is expensive, I wonder if they know that there is 50rds in a box? I would not say the ammo is cheep, but I don't think the price is that bad. You do have to shop around. Six years or so ago sportsman's warehouse sold it for ~$20 a box and Gander Mtn was ripping people off at ~$40 a box. Hell even at The Fireing Line was cheeper than Gander.
On the other hand if you buy the "custom" ammo from Elite Ammo it's about 31$ for 25rds.

[rustycrusty]

someone is carrying this in Denver. Small quantities of this brass have been stumbled upon in stairwells of high rises downtown...

Brass was noted on the ground, identified in passing, and left alone. No other inquiry was made

[Graves]

As far as the secret service adopting it what's your point?

They know better then you do

glock
glock 17
$1000 new literally twice the price of a glock

Did you say Glock? I say: Fan boy! It's hopeless...

Resorts to name calling, game over man....game over!

[tmckay2]

Never heard this, as a matter of fact quite the opposite. And for the complaint of ammo prices, again if you shoot a 45 your spending just as much as the five seven. Also check out brassfetchers tests of the round, impressive, especially considering the super low recoil.

For me it's reload ability. It's about the same as 45 but then I can reload 45 for like 12 to 15 cents per round. It's a nice idea and decent round and platform I just could never justify the price and lack of ammo around.

[Zundfolge]

Does anyone make a handgun that shoots 5.7mm other than FN?

I too am unimpressed with the FiveseveN itself (bulky ... crappy trigger). The caliber is kinda nifty, but honestly for what it costs (both ammo and gun) I can think of dozens of better options for CCW/Self defense.

That said if I owned one I'd probably carry it once in a while ... I think I've CCW'd every gun I own at one time or another (well not my S&W 29-2, but that's 'cause I don't have a holster for it).

[HandKBRad]

Does anyone make a handgun that shoots 5.7mm other than FN?


Not that I’ve heard of.

[stevelkinevil]

Does anyone make a handgun that shoots 5.7mm other than FN?

I too am unimpressed with the FiveseveN itself (bulky ... crappy trigger). The caliber is kinda nifty, but honestly for what it costs (both ammo and gun) I can think of dozens of better options for CCW/Self defense.

That said if I owned one I'd probably carry it once in a while ... I think I've CCW'd every gun I own at one time or another (well not my S&W 29-2, but that's 'cause I don't have a holster for it).

Ive shot it a few times and felt just the opposite, I quite liked it and found the accuracy to be exceptional. Also I think its masterpiece arms that makes a mac11 looking thing that shoots 5.7, personally I think its silly as its just a huge heavy version with no advantages over the FN, but apparently some folks have bought it.

[jmg8550]

Plus the cops are now holding onto your $1000 carry gun in their evidence locker you may or may not see it again.



I carry a pistol that cost me $1200. What's your point? Oh and that pistol had been in an evidence locker for 3 years before I got it back.

Also... It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. If a lawyer wants your balls in a sling over your choice of carry gun, it really doesn't make much of a difference what you shot someone with.

And the felt recoil of the 5.7 VS. the 9mm makes for quicker follow up shots. And since the 5.7 is traveling at 2000+ fps, hydrostatic shock also comes into play.

Ever read the book Stopping Power? It shows the 5.7 to be quite effective.

[keylay31]

You could always carry a 30rd 22 mag. They are effectively the same in my mind for cc.

[C Ward]

Marshall and Sanow's research has been shown to be flawed multiple times over the years and is not a source that I would base decisions on . The 5.7 is balistically equivalent to the 22mag , similar weight bullet at similar velocity , theres no way around that , and both can be had with similar projectiles .
Repeat after me there is no such thing as a magic bullet , self defense with a handgun is all about shot placement .

Also the published velocity numbers above 2000 fps are from the P90 not the pistol , the realistic velocity out of the pistol is 1500 ish .

[DeusExMachina]

As far as the secret service adopting it what's your point?

They know better then you do

glock
glock 17
$1000 new literally twice the price of a glock

Did you say Glock? I say: Fan boy! It's hopeless...

I'm starting to think this is your only argument.

[soldier-of-the-apocalypse]

its kinda big for a carry dont you think

[lifeon2]

Personally I think its kind of silly as a carry gun but if you are thinking about rounds on hand just get the keltec pmr30 at least the 22mag has a wider variety of ammunition readily available and you get 10 more rounds at about the same size.

[Milt]

It might be considered a 'clue' that no other mainstream manufacturer of service or concealed carry pistols has chosen to chamber for the 5.7 cartridge, especially in light of the earlier overwhelming response to the .40 S&W.

The .40 does offer some advantages over 9x19 and .45 ACP, mainly a modest but real improvement in penetration of auto glass. As a civilian self-defense oriented shooter, this advantage does not sufficiently offset the 9x19's superiority in 'size-efficiency', low ammunition cost and faster follow-up shots for me to adopt the .40, but I do not deny that the .40 can be a sensible choice for some users.

Because of its inability to reliably create effective wound channels, the 5.7 is utterly without merit in the real world. An ex-SF friend of mine has a P-90 (with 'better' terminal ballistics than the pistol under consideration in this thread) as a range toy. It is lots of fun, but would be just about the last thing either of us would want in a fight, unless rascally rabid rabbits were mounting mass attacks on civilization as we know it.


"As far as the secret service adopting it what's your point?
They know better then you do"

Actually, no, they don't necessarily. Government agencies, with their bureaucratic mindset, are notorious incubators of wrong-headedness.There is a lot more involved in their choices than the mere suitability of a tool for the job they allegedly wish to do.

[Omicron]

Ever since I read Watership Down back in the 70s, I've been worried about those rascally rabbits.

[Milt]

That was a surprisingly good read...

[Bailey Guns]

Hydrostatic shock? :)

I thought that term disappeared like 25 years ago when gunwriters actually learned a little something about wound effects. Same with Marshall and Sanow.

[onebadfx4]

Not my number 1 choice for carry but it sure is fun to shoot. Rounds arent that bad on price IMO. But the mag capacity could be a selling point for those who seem to miss alot. LOL

[mahabali]

Where are you guys buying your 5.7 ammo? Anywhere local? I need some

[MrPrena]

Correct. The 5.7 is an effective round, contained in a very light weight and very high capacity weapon systems. The ammo is no more expensive than .45, the haters are frankly just ill informed.

+1

I've been dealing with tons of FN FiveSeven haters since 2005.
So many F=ma and p= m dv/dt commandos.




Cost of ammo- $22-25 for 50 rounds? It is everywhere on Sportsmans to Bass Proshop. I think that is probably about 45acp price now?

Accurate- Even my wife can hit a real tight group at 25yards.

Recoil- Recoil feels like 22lr. Again, even my wife can do a rapid firing.

Light- My wife did carry FN FiveSeven during 2005 winter OWB. NOw she carries Glock 26 IWB , because of size.

Mag capacity- 20 rounds or 30round with CMMG extension. Damn. It is awsome. :D

[DeusExMachina]

Doesn't meet FBI penetration standards.

[C Ward]

5.7 is balistically comparable to 22WMR , physics don't suspend themselves just because you don't like what they tell you .

[onebadfx4]

Where are you guys buying your 5.7 ammo? Anywhere local? I need some

Specialty Sports.

[Clint45]

Bottlenecked cartridge of 5.7 feeds far more reliably than .22 WMR. Although I love the .22 WMR I would never carry an automatic pistol chambered for it. Most have been jam-o-matics, and the PMR-30 from KelTec has had issues as well.

[olopc]

FN makes a great product. I am not a member of the bullet size counts club. I've read this pistol is very accurate, and low recoil. Placement is what counts. If you have the money, it would be a great addition to your collection.

[cstone]

Doesn't meet FBI penetration standards.

That's what she said [ROFL2]

To the OP, buy what you want, carry what you want and you can shoot accurately. Be different. Start a trend. Live a little. Don't be herded like sheeple. [Coffee]

[MadDog]

I find the FiveseveN to be extreemely accurate. I usually CCW one of my 1911's or one of my S&W M&P's but every now and then I like to CCW the 5.7 as it is very light and accurate. Yes, I do CCW with MRD's installed in fact all of my CCW Semi-auto have them (even the 1911's). I find target acquisition "much" faster with red dots and if you shoot rifles with the same type of optic then sight picture transition is seemless.

This picture has an Insight MRDS installed but has since been changed out for a Docter Optic. The Docter has a smaller, lower profile with better glass and a 4 year battery life (left on 24/7).

MadDog

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/7074/insightfn57010.jpg

[spqrzilla]

Don't carry a FiveseveN so you won't be court martialed (http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2008/01/post_24.html).

[Omicron]

That article refers to a 22. Had he shot the guy between the eyes with a 5.7 it woulda exploded his head. :)

[Electromagic]

Accepted, the ballistics notes, trigger...shooting it is a pleasure.
CARRYING this thing - what is your experience? It is light and acts as a natural pointer in my hand on a range. Do you use a shoulder holster? What does the SService use for carry - special pocket in a suit jacket? Inside pocket of an IKE jacket? It's not for the baggy shirt approach...

[a98kdoc]

Where are you guys buying your 5.7 ammo? Anywhere local? I need some
The store in loveland has it
Jenson arms?

Lots of it to.