View Full Version : M1A average group size?
nathan0259
05-20-2012, 21:54
Today when I was shooting my M1A it has some minor trigger work an ultimak scout rail a 7x scout scope everything else is stock. I was getting 3-4" groups at 100 yards with wolf WPA like this one
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad206/nathan0259/IMAG0233.jpg
then this happened with out the flyer this would be 1"
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad206/nathan0259/IMAG0231.jpg
then this happened I think this would be about 1" maybe a little over
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/ad206/nathan0259/IMAG0232.jpg
I'm assuming this is a fluke. Does this happen to anyone else? I am new to the M1A maybe 200 rounds through it so far. Is it normal for groups to vary this much? Thanks for your input.
bobbyfairbanks
05-20-2012, 21:57
bad ammo bAD GROUPS. ALSO THE INDIAN HAS TO DO HIS PART TO MAKE THE ARROW FLY STRAIGHT
nathan0259
05-20-2012, 22:08
I don't think that 3"-4" with shit wolf WPA is a bad group that has been the average for me. I want to know if anyone else gets this wide rage of group sizes with there M1A, 1"to 4" is a big difference.
Sounds like an ammo issue to me.Wolf is realy not all consistant on there loads.
Try with some good ammo and I'm sure you will see a differance.
And remember trigger pull and breathing :)
nathan0259
05-20-2012, 22:22
I'm not complaining about the 3"-4" groups with shit ammo I expect that. I just thought it was odd that the groups shrunk by 3" and I wanted to see if any of the M1A gurus out there had seen this before? Is it normal for a M1A to get crazy awesome groups sometimes or was it my dumb luck?
bobbyfairbanks
05-20-2012, 22:33
Sorry about the caps lock.
I have seen M14 print similar patterns before. The culprit has usually been a loose stock. I don't think we can even try and diagnose your groups till you run some quality ammo through it. We will all just waste time guessing.
I have an EBR with a National match barrel in it. Ran some shit surplus stuff through it and it grouped 2-3" at 100yds, ammo is huuuuuggggeeee!
gcrookston
05-20-2012, 23:45
with quality ammo you may be able to diagnose the problem, if there is one.
A typical 20 round group out of my M1a with FGMM 168 gr will be 1 MOA or less from the prone position using a bipod.
below is a 20 round group I shot in 10 minutes. CTC is 1.68", but the ATC is 0.336" or 0.321 MOA.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/TgtGfx-1.jpg
nathan0259
05-20-2012, 23:50
I guess it was just dumb luck. Inconsistency drives me nuts. I don't even want to put good ammo through it for fear of getting 3" variances.
nathan0259
05-20-2012, 23:57
with quality ammo you may be able to diagnose the problem, if there is one.
A typical 20 round group out of my M1a with FGMM 168 gr will be 1 MOA or less from the prone position using a bipod.
below is a 20 round group I shot in 10 minutes. CTC is 1.68", but the ATC is 0.336" or 0.321 MOA.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/TgtGfx-1.jpg
I don't think there is a problem I'm just not use to a rifle that goes from 4" groups to 1", that's awesome by the way, do you have anything done to it?
Sometimes rifles need to settle in before they start to group. I know a buddy that will take some crappy surplus and use it to foul his barrel before he puts the good stuff through.
M14s are finicky guns. They will run right some of the time and other times they won't run right.
gcrookston
05-21-2012, 06:54
I don't think there is a problem I'm just not use to a rifle that goes from 4" groups to 1", that's awesome by the way, do you have anything done to it?
It was built by Glen Nelson and has a Leupold Mk4 M1 16x mounted with an ARMS #18 using Mk4 rings.
There are four basic factors to consistent accuracy: The Shooter, The Gun, The Ammo and The Conditions. Each factor has an entire laundry list of sub-factors and books have been written every year on the subject(s)... -- for example, this group I posted might have been better had I not had a 20-30 wind from 4 o'clock (it was this factor that prevented me from going out 600 yrds that day).
There are so many variables to consistent shooting there is no way to tell you what happened to your groups or why -- We just don't have the complete data and the groups are a little small. I think it would be best to start with the obvious... The obvious is the ammo you were shooting is not ideal. try something else.
bellavite1
05-21-2012, 07:16
Russian ammo is cheap "for fun" ammo, but don'expect any consistency out of it...
The only consistent thing I found with it is that it prints 1 MOA left of my reloads...consistently.
BPTactical
05-21-2012, 10:45
If your M1A is a standard model then what you are seeing is pretty normal. If a loaded or NM model you should expect a little better but not much.
You are shooting garbage ammo, don't expect prime and consistent performance.
As noted in an earlier post if the rifle is bone stock then you will have the barrel dancing around a bit which will affect consistency of groups. Along with the barrel issue the gas cylinder needs to be given the NM treatment along with the operating rod.
M1A rifles are capable of uncanny accuracy but the platform must be improved upon by some accurizing work.
PM me if you have any questions on what needs to be done.
Sometimes rifles need to settle in before they start to group. I know a buddy that will take some crappy surplus and use it to foul his barrel before he puts the good stuff through.
M14s are finicky guns. They will run right some of the time and other times they won't run right.
Who would that be?
If the rifle is not glass bedded, it sometimes takes some rounds for the recoil to pound the receiver into a stable position in the stock. That is why a rifle won't shoot the same after is has been removed from the stock for cleaning.
Secondly, after firing fouling the barrel with a few rounds makes some rifles shoot better. Heating the barrel from firing makes some shoot better. There is a difference in cold first shots vs. later shots.
islandermyk
06-13-2012, 08:42
Here's mine I did with my SuperMatch at a 100 yards.
8 shots with 168 gr handloads that my buddy made for me. I probably shot this between 3 to 5 minutes in prone. I shot the same pace with surplus 147gr... it wasn't worth taking pictures of [Coffee]
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/2011-09-09160451.jpg
Was that with iron sights or a scope?
A SuperMatch should shoot less than one inch at 100 yards.
islandermyk
06-13-2012, 16:06
Was that with iron sights or a scope?
A SuperMatch should shoot less than one inch at 100 yards.
sorry..
it was with a scope... I didn't take anytime to shoot this group... it was pretty quick and I was being less accurate than the rifle is [Coffee]
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/IMAG0560.jpg
OP its most likely shooter error. No offense, but I highly doubt you are a better shot than the rifle is.
islandermyk
06-13-2012, 17:34
OP its most likely shooter error. No offense, but I highly doubt you are a better shot than the rifle is.
I'm not gonna deny that the rifle is a lot more accurate than I am... I'm glad that I'm even capable to get the rifle to hit paper which I consider a great achievement for myself[ROFL1]
.. but I gotta say my Supermatch is a treat to shoot... now lets see yours [Tooth]
Gotta hand it to ya Mike-thats some nice shootin!!(for just hittin the paper :D )
I allways wind up shooting out the other guys target[LOL]
islandermyk
06-14-2012, 00:04
Gotta hand it to ya Mike-thats some nice shootin!!(for just hittin the paper :D )
I allways wind up shooting out the other guys target[LOL]
good thing for me... I was all alone out there shooting...
... who know what sorts of good laughs one could get a kick out of my shooting[LOL]
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