LandNav Classes

[Batteriesnare]

Mods, if this is the incorrect thread, please move and accept my apologies.

Im looking for a class for basic map reading, compass use, and land navigation. Assume complete beginner status, and would be looking for gear reccomendations including the purchase of a compass. REI has a one day class for beginners @ $60, but I can't make the date. I'm looking for myself and a couple of buddies, and would be willing to pay (within reason,) or offer firearms training in return. Does anyone here have something that would be in this niche, or can you reccomend a school that would offer these services?

Thank you!

[DeusExMachina]

Google the Rocky Mountain Orienteering Club.

[HBARleatherneck]

USMC google it.

SERE school was good too.

[zteknik]

USMC google it.

SERE school was good too.

Beat me to it,although I was going to say Army :D
Then for advanced training- Ranger school :)

[Sharpienads]

You could probably learn everything you need to know just by googling it. Land nav isn't very hard. Unless it's in the pitch black in Florida. That sucks. Just read up on it and then go practice it.

Try googling this: FM 3-25.26

[zteknik]

Also as a thought,how about boy scout manuals?
I remember they had a merit badge for it.

[whiskeyjack]

we teach one based on the LRRP courses of old.

[sniper7]

My only offer is to buy a gps and always have extra batteries.

[275RLTW]

The Cammenga lensatic compass (http://www.cammenga.com/product_p/3h.htm)(tritium) is the standard. Using it is easy and the instrutions are provided. Map reading is all practice. Get the gear, read the aforementioned manual, and get out there and practice. Use a GPS for backup only. With practice, you'll be faster and more accureate than a GPS (most handhelds are only capapble to +/- 30 meters). Good terrain analysis, pace counts, and occasional resection will get you within 10 feet.

[trlcavscout]

I think you can find the FT Benning land nav book on line. I still have mine but other then googling compass useage its only good for the maps and practice stuff. Pretty dry stuff. Most all can be found on google and pretty basic once you get a feel for it.

[Irving]

When I started a thread about this a few years ago I ended up reading a bunch of good links, and wanted to try it out, but wasn't ever sure how to proceed. Do you just go to a place that has two known points, start at one, and try to navigate to the other?

[sniper7]

When I started a thread about this a few years ago I ended up reading a bunch of good links, and wanted to try it out, but wasn't ever sure how to proceed. Do you just go to a place that has two known points, start at one, and try to navigate to the other?

that would probably be the best thing to try. start somewhere small...like 2 miles away. take a GPS and make sure you have cell coverage and good weather for the initial runs.

then make the distance greater. introduce weather. somewhere unknown.

then start at an unknown location, and head to a known location.

that is the way I would try it. but I never really use maps. I have topo on my GPS, use my cell with google mags to learn an area ahead of time, terrain features etc, and grew up hunting and getting left by my dad to figure my way back to camp.

[Rucker61]

Beat me to it,although I was going to say Army :D
Then for advanced training- Ranger school :)

Never got to Ranger School, but I spend some time at Harmony Church running around the Benning land nav courses. How come kudzu doesn't show up on a topo map? It should be clearly marked on a 1:50,000.

[RCCrawler]

I heard that 303 arms was planning on doing something this summer.

[Irving]

If you show up at an unknown location, how do you find where you are on the map? Landmarks?

[USMC88-93]

Not quite relevant to your question but.....You might check out the USGS map store on the Denver Federal Center. When I was there some years ago I remember them mentioning some classes. But for all I know it might just be basic map reading for cub scouts. Its worth a shot to ask however. If nothing else it is a good source of lots of hard to find otherwise maps.

[Sharpienads]

If you show up at an unknown location, how do you find where you are on the map? Landmarks?

Resection. Find two or preferably three distinct terrain features (natural or man-made) that you can also identify on your map. Take a back azimuth from each feature, adjust for declination, and draw the lines from the features on your map along the back azimuth. Where the lines intersect is where you are.

If you're somewhere with no terrain features, you're screwed.

[Sharpienads]

You can get free maps online if you search for them. Also Google maps will give you lat/longs. If you google "hawgview" and click the link that says Neo's CAS Simulator (you might get a warning message, but trust me, its safe) you can get MGRS overlays and anywhere you click on the map will give you the location in multiple formats and the elevation. It's basically Google earth with more features. You can put tactical map symbols on your overlay if that's your thing (smiley). I use it al the time for work.

[Irving]

Resection. Find two or preferably three distinct terrain features (natural or man-made) that you can also identify on your map. Take a back azimuth from each feature, adjust for declination, and draw the lines from the features on your map along the back azimuth. Where the lines intersect is where you are.

If you're somewhere with no terrain features, you're screwed.

I don't know what a back azimuth is without looking it up, but you explained it in a way that I was able to figure out how you would do what you explained. Thanks!

[Sharpienads]

I don't know what a back azimuth is without looking it up, but you explained it in a way that I was able to figure out how you would do what you explained. Thanks!

No problem. Back azimuth is just 180 degrees away from whatev your compass says.

[mobbs]

Go to A&S, you'll be an orienteering guru.

You can also print off the open source version of PFPS FalconView, which is a mapping software we use in the military (the version we use is a little more hi-speed) and you can actually geo-rect images from google earth onto your FalconView maps. It gets a little confusing so Sharp's method for MGRS maps would probably be much easier. Just remember, you need to know the degree of declination anywhere you are in the world (because it changes from location to location) in order to navigate with any degree of accuracy. Also a good way to find where you are on a map, so long as you are along a linear terrain feature (road, river, etc) that you know is marked on your map, just find one terrain feature, shoot an azimuth, get the back azimuth, compensate for degree of declination and draw straight lines from that feature along the back azimuth. The point where the line intersects with the linear terrain feature is approximately where you are on the map. Resections and modified Resections are the preferred method.

[Sharpienads]

I think HawgView will tell you the local declination, but I can't remember. I know that the military GPSs will tell you the declination, but do civilian ones? I have a little garmin wrist GPS and I don't think it has declination.

[tonantius]

Amazon has some land navigation books. They are similar to DOD FM. If you get lost in the woods your are SOL if you can't see any landmarks. Then it is GPS.

Also there are Geocaching groups that you can find with online web pages. That would be navigation with a GPS mainly.

I think a combination GPS with topographic map (both digital and paper) and a good military or geological compass, plus a pencil, protractor, and straight edge and you are good to go.

Ranger school is good, too. There should be some mountaineering or orienteering classes out there. I took a map reading class at West Point, three at the University of Nebraska (one for ROTC, one for geology and one for backpacking). I also had map making classes. I made geologic maps for publication.