School is in. Who owns America's Debt.

[tmleadr03]

I see this popping up in Ridge's gun thread that China owns our debt. They do own some of it, but not a whole lot. They do not own much at all. Lets start with this picture:
http://www.fincher.org/images/2007-10-03-WhoOwnsNationalDebt.png

Holy crap! They own 19% of our debt!! Well, not exactly. That is how much they own compared to everyone else in the world besides us. Next slide please!

http://www.abandonthecube.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Estimated_ownership_of_US_Treasury_securities_by_c ategory_0608.jpg

Here we see it as part of the whole dept. Only 27% of our TOTAL national debt is owed to foreign countries. So if they own 19% of 27% anyone want to tell me how much they own of our total debt? You in the back not listening, why don't you come up to the board and do that math for me.

Good job, that's right! It takes it down to just over 5% of our total national debt.

Now the numbers are actually difficult to work, I have to be honest. The debt changes so fast (Sadly up. Dumb politicians) that the numbers are not only hard to come by but by the time you work the numbers they are out of date. The most recent numbers I can find shows the Mainland China owns a whopping 8% of our total national debt. The people of the United States and the our .gov itself own close to 70% of the total national debt.

I did try to get newer pictures for you yahoos but those are as new as I could find. So from 2008 till now they have gained 3% more of our national debt.


Should we have that much debt? NO!

Everything else, including who owns it is secondary.


The Chinese are not about to own our nation people, stop with the Red Dawn fantasy life.

[tmleadr03]

That is as of July 2007. Just saying, percentages are not going to change by vast margins, but the debt has increased something like 58-65% since then.

Way to read all the way to the end of the post.

[xring]

http://www.fincher.org/images/2007-10-03-WhoOwnsNationalDebt.pngThis is in fact a a pie chart of owners of US debt OTHER THAN THE FEDERAL RESERVE

[Zundfolge]

The Chinese are not about to own our nation people, stop with the Red Dawn fantasy life.
Indeed.

That and the Chinese economy is much more precarious than ours (since its a communist economy with some capitalist window dressing).


Remember back in the 80s when everyone was afraid the Japanese were going to buy up America? Look at them now, they've almost collapsed because they're Keynesians (no kids ... has nothing to do with birth certificates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrHkxqNT7s) ... watch and giggle).


Of course the fact that the Federal Reserve Bank owns half our debt actually worries me more ... its not like the Chinese could start printing dollars. The Fed can. This is one of those issues that the Paulians are 100% right on.

[stevelkinevil]

Yup most folks don't realize that the Federal Reserve owns most of our debt and they just want more. Most folks also do not realize the Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE bank, contrary to what the name suggests. They are parasites who have been manipulating and bleeding us dry since their inception.

[tmleadr03]

http://www.fincher.org/images/2007-10-03-WhoOwnsNationalDebt.pngThis is in fact a a pie chart of owners of US debt OTHER THAN THE FEDERAL RESERVE

Really? Wish I had noticed that before I posted it. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Ridge]

Yup most folks don't realize that the Federal Reserve owns most of our debt and they just want more. Most folks also do not realize the Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE bank, contrary to what the name suggests. They are parasites who have been manipulating and bleeding us dry since their inception.

The Federal Reserve is no more a government agency than Federal Express.

[stevelkinevil]

The Federal Reserve is no more a government agency than Federal Express.

[ROFL1][ROFL1] not sure those smileys work yet but HA! good stuff.

[tmleadr03]

[ROFL1][ROFL1] not sure those smileys work yet but HA! good stuff.

They do, and completely appropriate. Well played Ridge.

[xring]

http://www.abandonthecube.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Estimated_ownership_of_US_Treasury_securities_by_c ategory_0608.jpg
Here is a more or less accurate chart of who owns US debt. Basicly half owned by the federal reserve. In fact the fed has pretty much bought every treasury that has been sold in the past four years to get to this ratio. Implicit to the feds promise to keep interest rates at zero is the that they will buy treasuries at 1 % yield. Pretty much no one else is a buyer at 1% yield. China is a net seller of treasuries. Japan continues to buy trashuries with their own debt to gdp of 200%. If the trend continues the fed and japan will own all of our treasuries.

This raises a interesting question. If the US goverment can fund its spending with half of it being bought by the fed with money from the electronic press and the other half from revenues (taxes) why are taxes needed at all? If the fed can print half of what the goverment spends, why cant they print it all?

[Ridge]

If the trend continues the fed and japan will own all of our treasuries.

If you owe the bank $5,000, they own you. If you owe the bank $5,000,000, you own the bank.

[mutt]

why are taxes needed at all? If the fed can print half of what the goverment spends, why cant they print it all?

Control.
Control a man's finances and you have a huge amount of control over the man. If they can't get you with anything else they can always send the IRS after you.

[Zundfolge]

why are taxes needed at all? If the fed can print half of what the goverment spends, why cant they print it all?

Control.
Control a man's finances and you have a huge amount of control over the man. If they can't get you with anything else they can always send the IRS after you.

Additionally it would cause the Ponzi Scheme that is fiat currency to collapse at a much faster rate.

Its taken a century of fiat currency to get us to where we are ... and if we'd just slightly improve our fiscal responsibility and reduce regulation at the federal level we could see our fiat currency last another century. Eventually it will fail, but quantitative easing will hasten the collapse. Of course returning to real money and doing away with the Fed would probably make our currency last forever but that's just crazy talk :p .

[Zundfolge]

why are taxes needed at all? If the fed can print half of what the goverment spends, why cant they print it all?

Control.
Control a man's finances and you have a huge amount of control over the man. If they can't get you with anything else they can always send the IRS after you.

Additionally it would cause the Ponzi Scheme that is fiat currency to collapse at a much faster rate.

Its taken a century of fiat currency to get us to where we are ... and if we'd just slightly improve our fiscal responsibility and reduce regulation at the federal level we could see our fiat currency last another century. Eventually it will fail, but quantitative easing and other central banking tricks will hasten the collapse.