Full auto necessary ?.

[cedrick]

Is full auto really needed besides the fun setting ? and mabey the poo hitting the fan scnario, couldn't ya accomplish the same thing with a semi ?I mean like 3 or 4 ar's instead of just 1 m-16 ,and on the ban that I read about I think in ILL making it illegal to own assult wepons,ect would class 3 fall under an out right ban like that. And if the poo did hit the fan there would be curfiues and the military every where, so would it be really needed ,I mean it probably wouldnt be like ww2 or Iraq more like afew sept 11 attacks not a hole lot we could do but would cause major caos. so what do ya think ? Really , besides that I have way too much free time and need a job :P

[BadShot]

I think the more appropriate question, when considering the Second Amendment as a founding principle in this idea, is why not? Why should you not have access to and ownership of a FA weapon?

[WillysWagon]

I agree with BadShot, it's not the need, it's the right.
As a citizen of the US, I should have the right to own whatever I want.

One can look at it this way:
We don't need fast food places - we can cook at home
We don't need cars - we can ride bikes or walk to work

For me, shooting is a hobby, an uber cool hobby. As a law abiding citizen, I don't want anyone to diminish/limit my right to own whatever I want. The 2nd Amendment does not specify flint lock, single shot, bolt action, auto loader or belt fed. Whenever we give an inch, the Anti-Gun crowd will take a mile.



Of course I'd love to have a 'FA' for when the Zombie Hoards come :mrgreen:

[7idl]

we HAVE the right to have what ever the .gov has.

gotta keep those bastages in check.

but as we can see.... things are not as our founding fathers wished.

what we have here is a situation which the 2nd was put in place for... but we haven't done a damn thing about it :cry:

[WETWRKS]

Look at what all happened after Katrina. I'm sure that there were individuals who needed a MG there and didn't have it. Cops shooting people in the back, people pillaging, etc.

I would have wanted one.

[postal]

[cedrick]

Ok lets look at cost , with a fam of lets say5, 1 class 3 for 14000 or 4 nicely equiped ar's for 6000 is the one worth the 4. I agree we should be able to buy class 3 s with out licenes ect at a resanable price. But unfourtantly thats not the case here any more. :cry:

[pickenup]

Ok lets look at cost , with a fam of lets say5, 1 class 3 for 14000 or 4 nicely equiped ar's for 6000 is the one worth the 4. I agree we should be able to buy class 3 s with out licenes ect at a resanable price. But unfourtantly thats not the case here any more. :cry:
High cost is ONLY because of the BAN on them.
If there was no ban, the cost WOULD be reasonable.

[BadShot]

There are several countries in Europe where they are not restricted and the prices are mere fractions of what we pay here in the states... supply and demand, God bless the market economy

[Obiwan]

Limited usefulness

Pat Rogers calls it the "group therapy setting"

But it should be my decision...not some govt afraid of its citizens

[robsterclaw]

All you have to do is go browse gunbroker and you can see the cost difference in a FA that was preban, and a postban FA that only law enforcement or a dealer demo can own. If memory serves me, I've seen M16's for LE use only,cost under 2k while an M16 FA preban was 14k.

I do like tha fact FA's are too expensive for the average person to go buy, but I would like to see the cost be half of what it is. I could swing buying an Uzi for $3,500, but no way can I swing it for 7K

[HunterCO]

I guess first off I have to say as an owner of a F/A M16 is there really a need...NO! It is more of a toy and a damn fun one at that. The point is as others have stated is nobody should EVER be allowed to question what another person chooses to own.

Hell if I got rid of all the things I didn't NEED I would have one really crappy life. I have a firebird street car with a 454 that puts out 650 HP do I need it....Nope. I have a Harley do I really need it...Nope.

One last thing my M16 is select fire I can shoot it in semi also. It's just nice to have the happy switch for when the zombies come. [pirate] [postal]

[Wallary]

Ok lets look at cost , with a fam of lets say5, 1 class 3 for 14000 or 4 nicely equiped ar's for 6000 is the one worth the 4. I agree we should be able to buy class 3 s with out licenes ect at a resanable price. But unfourtantly thats not the case here any more. :cry: Here's the answer for us poor boys who don't have FA's when TSHTF. This is only to be considered if you have no other choice and there coming to get you. Here's the scenario... The Zombies are everywhere and chaos has taken over the lawless city. You've made it to the shopping mall and have secured all the entrances. Hopefully you picked the mall with a gun store in it. Pull out the AR-15 FULL-AUTO CONVERSION BOOK that you purchased off the internet and refresh your memory. Grab your magic bag of parts that you made previously. Take your AR's, tools, & ammo and head for the roof. The rest is up to you but, whatever you do take out that fat mouth Rosie first. [postal] [roll]

[robsterclaw]

Ok lets look at cost , with a fam of lets say5, 1 class 3 for 14000 or 4 nicely equiped ar's for 6000 is the one worth the 4. I agree we should be able to buy class 3 s with out licenes ect at a resanable price. But unfourtantly thats not the case here any more. :cry: Here's the answer for us poor boys who don't have FA's when TSHTF. This is only to be considered if you have no other choice and there coming to get you. Here's the scenario... The Zombies are everywhere and chaos has taken over the lawless city. You've made it to the shopping mall and have secured all the entrances. Hopefully you picked the mall with a gun store in it. Pull out the AR-15 FULL-AUTO CONVERSION BOOK that you purchased off the internet and refresh your memory. Grab your magic bag of parts that you made previously. Take your AR's, tools, & ammo and head for the roof. The rest is up to you but, whatever you do take out that fat mouth Rosie first. [postal] [roll]

That movie was awesome!!! The gun store owner across the street RAWKED. [postal] [postal] [postal]

[cedrick]

Ok got to love the happy switch,but if ya had one would it be worth selling for $ and 4 ARs,if ya needed $ & had no job

[MPfiveengineer]

FA is fun but I do not think it is "necessary". Maybe it is just me but a rifle caliber FA at over 75 yards serves only to give the other guy a heart attack. I guess the more lead you throw out the greater the probability of some of it finding a home but I think I would try to place my shots. I really like subguns but it seems like everyone is getting away from them to be able to defeat body armor. If you are concerned about SHTF spend your money on mags, extra parts, ammo, and other supplies. That said I have never been shot at and my opinion is just that, an opinion.

An interesting aside, the guy who bought my Hk-91 I sold on gunbroker was a police officer in some little town outside New Orleans, the hour I spoke with him on the phone blew my mind. He bought the 91 as his SHTF gun because his experiences left him unhappy with the .223 round.

This thing looks like a great SHTF gun to me. I think KelTec said they will sell these for arround $2K

http://www.kel-tec.com/images/downloads/RFB_Flyer_SHOT_2007_web.pdf

[Gman]

The Kel-Tec looks interesting, but that ejection chute makes me a bit twitchy.

[cedrick]

I would agree I like it but the ejection port does look fuuny ,have to try it I guess :P mp5eengineer did ya ever get your sear?, and I appreciate your honesty on your post , that s kinda what I thought .

[Ice Pirate]

I also think that Kel-tec's ejection system would be problematic at best. Why not just kick it out the side and be done with it. They only did it so that it could be used ambidextriously, but I think the trade off is really not worth it.

To the topic at hand though, I too believe that FA is at most, a really cool option to have. I've spent the vast majority of my adult life teaching weapons for the AF, and will be the first to admit that it's a hoot to rip off a full mag on A for AWFUL! However, I've also spent just as many years trying to get the point through to the troops, that FA is really only good for keeping heads down. If your intent is to hit a target, you've got to use your sights, basic shooting fundamentals, and the SEMI-AUTO setting.

I've sent millions of rounds down range in FA during my 27 year career, and I can tell you that even at 25 yds, the vast majority of shooters can not put all 3 rounds of a 3 round burt completly on target. Even in combat, FA is a good way to make a lot of noise, have some fun, punch a lot of holes in the air and let everyone know exactly where you are, right about the time you run completely out of ammo. Not smart.

That being said, as I feel as a weapons instructor is my job to say, I do have to agree that it is our right to be able to own such weapons, regardless how useless they might be, in a real world situation.

I do not agree that we have a right to own what ever the government owns. I don't think I'd like the thought of my nieghbor owning a live nuke. That kind of thing could affect my safety as well as his own, as well as the greater Denver metro area. I don't believe that that any civilian has the right to own a fully functional A-10 with it's 30mm rotary cannon that can take out heavy armor at more than 2 miles slant range.

Unlike the government, individual civilians make up their own minds what to do, and have little to no oversite. In the military, you can't just go hop in the cockpit of an F-16 and make up your own mission, I don't care what you saw in the movies or read in some dime store novel. Nothing is done with military hardware that has not been approved by others. Even the President who "Has his finger on THE BUTTON" is not the one who actually pushes it. All he does, is order the button to be pushed by others who are hundreds of miles away. That is oversite.

I for one, would not want anyone without oversite, to possess that kind of firepower. There needs to be limits for the safety and security of us all.

As for the high price, I don't mind that too much, it does keep it from being an impulse purchase, but then most of the organized crime groupes have that kind of money so it's really not much of a deterrance.