Multi-caliber suppressor

[SigsRule]

I was looking at Yankee Hill Manufacturing's website and discovered they have a 7.62 suppressor with QD mount that will work on both 7.62 and 5.56 rifles equiped with the right QD flashhider. Does anybody have experience with this or know anything about it? If it really works it sounds perfect for someone with both a 5.56 and 7.62. I already have the 5.56 (a XCR) with a 7.62x59 on order (a DSA SA58). I also plan to purchase a 7.62x39 caliber conversion for the XCR once they're available. So something like this would work on three separate rifles.

[Gman]

I had always thought that the suppressors were tuned for bore size and the volume and velocity of expended gas during the firing impulse for the chambered cartridge. I'm not sure how it could be flexible enough to be efficient with a 5.56 and an opening of 7.62 or be able to efficiently delay enough gas for a 7.62x59 while working well with a 5.56x45.

...but I am definitely no expert on suppressors.
[popcorn]

[SigsRule]

That's what I thought too, but the web site only has one set of numbers for the 7.62 at -32db. The text says it works with 5.56 as well but doesn't give any further information.

[HunterCO]

That's what I thought too, but the web site only has one set of numbers for the 7.62 at -32db. The text says it works with 5.56 as well but doesn't give any further information.

Of course it works with 5.56 it's a smaller caliber. In other words you can use a .45 can on .40sw, 9mm, .38 ect. The problem is it will not suppress as good as a can designed for that specific caliber.

DB ratings are a joke when it comes to suppressors IMHO. What the DB meter says versus what people hear can be very different.

I can tell you this if you buy a .45 can and use it on a 9mm for instance it will not be near as effective for 9mm as a 9mm can would be.

[SigsRule]

That using a can designed for a larger caliber will not be as effective on a smaller caliber would be a logical assumption, but I'm not an expert in suppression theory. It's more than just "tuning" to the volume, it's also got something to do with frequency and harmonics and baffle design and probably a host of other considerations with a dash of magic thrown in. Without knowning anything about it, I could make the following assumptions:

We could assume that since the volume of the 7.62 can is bigger than the 5.56 can it would have more effectiveness. There's some basis for a larger volume being more effective in the information on the websites.

We could also assume that since all the gas trapped in the can has to eventually be expelled it has to exit through the bore. Using bernouli's theorem we know that the smaller the venturi the higher the velocity has to be for a given pressure and volume so a can with a smaller hole (5.56) would have a louder component to the perceived noise due to the escaping gases than one with a larger hole (7.72).

But all this assuming is BS because I don't know JACK about suppressor theory. I do assume that it wouldn't be as effective - now the question is how much less effective would it be. A 3 db difference would have twice (or half depending on which way) the sound energy but it takes around a 10 db difference for a human to notice it. But one of the advertised reasons for using a can is to reduce the potential for hearing loss, so anything that gets the level down to below 120 db or so will accomplish that.

The rifle cans aren't as quiet as the effective pistol cans in the best of circumstances since a large component of the noise is the sonic boom. Since you have heard a difference between a .45 can on a 9mm, does anybody have corresponding experience with rifle calibers?

At $200 each for the federal tax plus the cost of the cans and flash hider adaptors we're talking one third the investment if it worked "well enough".

[Wulf202]

i read over at subguns.com that people use their 9mm cans on 22lr with good results.

Not as good as a caliber fit can, but it'll work.

[Wallary]

I was looking at Yankee Hill Manufacturing's website and discovered they have a 7.62 suppressor with QD mount that will work on both 7.62 and 5.56 rifles equiped with the right QD flashhider. Does anybody have experience with this or know anything about it? If it really works it sounds perfect for someone with both a 5.56 and 7.62. I already have the 5.56 (a XCR) with a 7.62x59 on order (a DSA SA58). I also plan to purchase a 7.62x39 caliber conversion for the XCR once they're available. So something like this would work on three separate rifles. If performance is not a factor and all your looking for is a (half-a$$ed) one size fits all suppressor then go for it but, If your looking to get the best quality most effective suppressor get the proper one for that size caliber of rifle. Like HunterCo said the bigger "Can" will not be nearly as effective for the smaller caliber rifle. I don't mean to be harsh but, you get what you pay for. Personally I'm always looking for a bargain and it dose sound like a good deal. I look at it this way ... The purpose of a suppressor is to become as stealth as possible so, Why compromise your equipment and lose your advantage. We do have someone on the board that knows all about suppressors and I'm sure he'll respond to this thread shortly. MPfiveengineer here's your chance to shine! :cool:

[HunterCO]

We had a silencer shoot last year a bunch of people from this site as well as people from silencertests.com. Between all of us we probably had 20 cans or so and we played around with putting different caliber cans on different caliber guns.

It does not make a huge difference but you can definitely hear the difference. A silencer has baffles these are what trap the gas and suppresses the weapon. The tighter the tolerances the better it is going to do its job. If you use a .45 can on a 9mm for instance it leaves a large amount of room for the gasses to get around the bullet instead of getting caught in the baffles.

It will work and you can still shoot it without hearing protection but it will not be as effective as a 9mm can. Maybe we will have another silencer shoot this year and you can attend and listen for your self and then make the call on what you want to do. We also usually have quite a few suppressed weapons at our monthly shoots.

If you go to the club shoot forum and look about half way down there is the thread to our silencer shoot. Go to page 3 and there are pics as well as a video made by Alucard that you can watch. At the end of the video the guy shoots a .223 can then switches to a .308 can. You can hear Alucard say it makes a difference not a lot but a little.

[SigsRule]

Thanks, interesting video an d you're right, you can't tell much about the sound.

A couple of questions, what/where is SWR? Second, is there a consensus on one can vs. another for quality and reliability?

My primary interest in a can is for my XCR which is a 5.56 but I am also planning to get a 7.62x39 caliber conversion for it. And I have a FAL on order, so I was interested in Yankee Hill's statements about the Phantom 7.62. I'm retired military and not planning to be doing any covert activities, so the main reason for a can, besides the cool factor, is the comfort factor hearing wise. The Phantom could switch between all three anticipated barrels and I'd only need two more of their QD flash hiders for the other two barrels once the can and first one were in hand.

Sure, I'm looking to do it on the cheap, as long as it's effective on all three barrels and meets the goals of hearing comfort. That way I can use the saved funds and get a can for one of my pistols if I really wanted to.

Is there a consensus about the quick detachable system versus a screw on can?

[alucard]

I have been following this thread, and will be able to provide you with more info and videos once I get around to posting them.

First I would like to mention that when I filmed the video, I was using a Canon SD300 digital micro camera. This thing also happens to take video. So this is not a dedicated video machine by any means, and the Microphone on it sucks. Plus to add to that, I had my camera in my waterproof/weather case, which mutes alot of noise.
The second issue is the microphone has a "cutoff" on it, so it can only measure up to a certain point, before the noise is either too fast for the mic to capture, and/or is too loud for the cameras mic to realistically capture and represent since it can only measure up to a certain point like 120 Decibels.

So what Im getting at, is you can not really watch a video and make a decision on that. You can not even make a judgment on a suppressor unless you hear them, side by side on same platforms on the same day. You can't hear a surefire can one day, and the YHM can the next and say one is "quieter" then the other, because atmosphere has a big part in the way they sound.
But you can make a judgment on that, there were many people there that day that I made the video, and we all agreed that the AAC 762SD (.308) was louder that day compared to the AAC M4-2000 (.223). The AAC 762SD was still hearing safe. Some of this is contributed to the extra length. So even though it is a bigger hole, the extra length counters some of that.

Now suppressors can sounds great one day, and other days not as "good as you remembered." I will post another video later where we did the same comparison, and it was alot colder that day, but the three people there literally could not tell a difference from the 762SD can and the M4-2000 on the .223 HK platform. Now there was a definite noticeable difference at the CO silencer shoot, but it was not noticeable in the second video I will post.

With that being said. It is true that a dedicated caliber can will do better at sound suppression, a .308 can on a .223 platform will still be pretty good most of the time, so long as you stick with a good manufacture.

I personally got the extended SRT Shadow, and a Tros adaptor. I can put it on my savage .308 or my M4 .223 now. I just got my tros adaptor and have not shot it on my M4 yet so I dont know what it is going to sound like. But I like the fact that I can use it on either. Some day I will get a dedicated .223, but till then, this will work.

Here is why I got the SRT Shadow: (read thru this thread, I did quite a bit of research)
http://www.silencertests.com/silencer-forum/viewtopic.php?t=4535&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[SigsRule]

Thanks for the info, I'm going back to read the thread after my registration is confirmed but wanted to get this in.

I'm trying to remember what movie "Alucard" came from. Was it one of the Bela Lugosi movies or someone else's? Did I just give away my age by even knowing the reference?

[alucard]

I got alucard from an anime series called hellsing. I dont particularly care for anime, but the characters name was alucard, it is Dracula spelled backwards.

SWR, has recently changed hands. Joe Gadini was the owner. And He has the BEST record for warrenty on his products. He upgraded my .45 can for free to a new version (most other companies charge half the price of a new one to upgrade or repair, some more, some less then that) He would literally repair your can if you ran it over with a D4 caterpiller.
I'm sure that the new owners Matt Pallet will keep the same warrenty going.
See this post about SWR:
http://www.silencertests.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6930

The only draw bak I can think about for quick detach cans is you have to get the correct flash hider. The gemtech halo will mount on any AR-15 with a standard flash hider and a peel washer (if any of this is incorrect, please correct me) Witch is nice cause if you have a bunch of AR-15, you can just move the can around.
The AAC needs to have a special flash hider installed, which is $85. Unless you dont mind screwing it off to put it on another gun, you will have to buy a flash hider for each gun.

But the mounting systems on quick detaches are great, no draw backs as compared to regular threaded.

[alucard]

All right, here is my other video.
In this video, it is the same guy shooting, Hud33, with the same HK .223 rifle. We place his AAC 762SD (.308) can and his M4-2000 (.223) can on it.
Right click and save:
http://www.korgon.com/ryder/Guns/suppr/dec%2006%20silent%20shoot3.wmv

We literally could not hear a difference between the two cans this time. and we only had about a 20 second delay for him to switch between the two quick detach cans and start shooting again. This is why the suppressor market is soo funky.
I'm sure that if we had the proper sound metering equipment there would have been a difference, but to our ears, it was not substantial *THIS TIME* But at the CO silencer shoot, it was a very noticeable difference.

[SigsRule]

Thanks,
I don't remember which Dracula movie it was but it was an old Black and White film and in it Bela Lugosi played Count Alucard, dracula spelled backwards. You can bet the anime folks got it from that movie.

[alucard]

I will have to remeber that, because I dont care to associate my self with the anime scene. I'll just say I got it from a black and white film, and thats where the anime got it from... :P

At any rate, here is my SRT extended shadow on both my M4 and my Savage, and a close up of my Tros adaptor on my M4
http://www.korgon.com/ryder/Guns/suppr/IMG_2647%20(Large).JPG
http://www.korgon.com/ryder/Guns/suppr/IMG_2648%20(Large).JPG
http://www.korgon.com/ryder/Guns/suppr/IMG_2650%20(Large).JPG

Now i just got to wait for the dang .22Lr prodigy to ship...

I don't think you can go wrong with SRT, AAC, SWR, Surefire, YHM, AWC, and gemtech they all make good cans, some types are better then others.

Make sure you put the suppressor on a trust or LLC. I was stupid and put my first can to me, personnal and always kick my self for it. The others are on me and my fathers "trust" and we can both play with those listed on it. And no Law enforcement officer to sign off on it, finger prints, photos.

[HunterCO]

Thanks, interesting video an d you're right, you can't tell much about the sound.

As Alucard explained it is all about the mic I was just trying to give you and idea. You really need to hear it for your self before you pass judgment.



A couple of questions, what/where is SWR? Second, is there a consensus on one can vs. another for quality and reliability?

That is like asking is Ford better than Chevy you will get a million different opinions. Stick with a major brand can and you will be fine.



My primary interest in a can is for my XCR which is a 5.56 but I am also planning to get a 7.62x39 caliber conversion for it. And I have a FAL on order, so I was interested in Yankee Hill's statements about the Phantom 7.62. I'm retired military and not planning to be doing any covert activities, so the main reason for a can, besides the cool factor, is the comfort factor hearing wise. The Phantom could switch between all three anticipated barrels and I'd only need two more of their QD flash hiders for the other two barrels once the can and first one were in hand.

Sure, I'm looking to do it on the cheap, as long as it's effective on all three barrels and meets the goals of hearing comfort. That way I can use the saved funds and get a can for one of my pistols if I really wanted to.

Is there a consensus about the quick detachable system versus a screw on can?

You have to make that choice if you go with a one in all can you will compromise sound suppression. As far as the QD mounts I can't really say at the silencer shoot the guy I shared my table with could not get the damn thing off. It kinda left a bad taste in my mouth for the QD mounts but I don't own one and can't really say.

Maybe Ken (mp5engineer) will get off his arse and chime in any minute. :mrgreen:

[alucard]

You have to make that choice if you go with a one in all can you will compromise sound suppression. As far as the QD mounts I can't really say at the silencer shoot the guy I shared my table with could not get the damn thing off. It kinda left a bad taste in my mouth for the QD mounts but I don't own one and can't really say.

I remember that now, that was colorado packer. This is how he got it off:
http://www.silencertests.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41699&highlight=#41699
he stuck it in a vice to remove it, soaking in kroil didnt work.

[SigsRule]

I've got Quicken Willmaker plus but I'm not sure what kind of Trust or how to go about it. Any hints would be appreciated.

[alucard]

Shoot me an e-mail

rydercurryATgmail.com (remove the AT and replace with @)

I'll hook you up...

[SigsRule]

I got curious and looked it up. Count Alucard first appeared in "Son of Dracula" starring Lon Chaney Jr.