Reloading tips for the newbies

[Not_A_Llama]

Got to thinking today about things that confused me and would have been nice to know when I started reloading, and didn't know squat. So I put together a list. Hopefully, others will add theirs.

Mine's a little 9mm-biased, because that's what I load most.

-The “crimp” die should be called the "de-bell" die. It's just there to remove the flare from seating. Not many cartridges out there need a true hard crimp.
-Corollary to the above: case tension is what holds a bullet in, not crimp. The brass in your casings is powerfully elastic, to a certain point.
-The “coke bottle” effect in many reloaded rounds is normal and proper. It helps prevent the bullet from setting back in the case when chambering
-Variations in overall length are normal. Most seating dies push on the ogive of the bullet, not the tip. There can be considerable (+/-0.005″) variation in OAL when your dies are set up this way.
-Use case lube, even with carbide dies. It makes the process much faster and smoother, and a good spray lanolin case lube costs very very little.
-There is basically no upper limit to the number of times a piece of 9mm brass can be reloaded. I have reason to believe that some pieces of brass in my pool are 30+ reloads old
-Tumbling should take, at most, 20 minutes. You can go longer if you have a thing for shiny, but functionally clean doesn’t take long to achieve.
-Undercharges are just as dangerous as overcharges. Arguably moreso.
-You need a chronograph. Without one, you're loading blind. Velocity is your best picture into pressure.
-Powder measures measure volume, not weight. Charges are specified in weight. Powders are relatively uniform in density, which makes the whole thing workable.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Thank you very much! Great info.

[Great-Kazoo]

Used brass is not worth (at least now) the $75 per 50 asking price some CL ad's would have you believe.

[Caithford]

Thanks for the tips!

[Irving]

Good thread. Hope it gets added to.

[Great-Kazoo]

When you adj your sizing die then go to powder dispenser, make sure the cartridge has a primer in it. [Bang]

[anomad]

I read a few reloading forums. Its amazing how the same threads repeat over and over. I'm glad to see a few people here have raised the white flag and asked for a tutor and others have volunteered up their equipment to teach. That would have saved me re-watching the Dillon VHS and re-reading the manual a million times when I started. (Half a million times ought to cover it.)

Primers, powders, overall length, bullet choices. Noobs tend to get overwhelmed by the variables, I know I did. When you are starting out try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

[spqrzilla]

Good tips although I'd argue some specifics regarding crimping.

[DeusExMachina]

- Change your tumbling media semi-frequently. This goes with tumbling for a short amount of time. A short amount of time will get you clean or even semi-shiny as long as your media isn't dulled or dirty. When 20-30 minutes isn't getting you there, change your media.

- If you don't use dryer sheets in the laundry, start. Used dryer sheets are useful to de-static your powder measure and keep your tumbling media lasting longer and less dusty.

[bobbyfairbanks]

Buy a reloading manual, READ IT. Buy a SECOND reloading manual READ that one as well. Stop asking stupid questions till you have read the book and actually REFERENCE it. Here ends the lesson.

[lifeon2]

Remember when folks are new to the hobby and asking questions be patient and try not to forget that you were at least as uninformed as them once upon a time.

[Not_A_Llama]

Good tips although I'd argue some specifics regarding crimping.

This is the venue to do so. Looking forward to your writeup.

[C.hud]

Also, dont take shortcuts. Reloading can take a while, set a side a block of time for each step and dont rush. When you rush you can make errors. Most people get into reloading to not only save money but to have better quality rounds than factory ammo. Be patient while learning to reload and even once you have got it down and try to limit distractions during the reloading process. And i have to agree with the person who said it above, undercharged rounds can be just as dangerous as overcharged rounds. Take your time and enjoy your new hobby.

[20X11]

Buy an L.E. Wilson pistol gage for each pistol caliber you plan to reload. Follow directions included with gage. Crimp only enough so the loaded cartridge drops in and back out without resistance. this ensures you are creating rounds to proper dimensions.
If you are on a progressive loader...buy a powder lockout die. Squib loads SUCK!

[DeusExMachina]

If you are on a progressive loader...buy a powder lockout die. Squib loads SUCK!

Or just pay a modicum of attention when placing the bullet on the bell to make sure there's powder in there.

[Great-Kazoo]

I read a few reloading forums. Its amazing how the same threads repeat over and over. I'm glad to see a few people here have raised the white flag and asked for a tutor and others have volunteered up their equipment to teach. That would have saved me re-watching the Dillon VHS and re-reading the manual a million times when I started. (Half a million times ought to cover it.)

Primers, powders, overall length, bullet choices. Noobs tend to get overwhelmed by the variables, I know I did. When you are starting out try to eliminate as many variables as possible.


I had this issue on the first press, overwhelmed & confused. With the newest acquisition i took each step slower and rechecked. Sizer / decrimper set & double check, powder dispenser, bullet seating and crimp all checked and double checked. perhaps too anal, but hey i'm not the only one in the family shooting reloads.

Everyone who reloads knows more than one who does not or just learning and also on a learning curve as well.

[spqrzilla]

This is the venue to do so. Looking forward to your writeup.

The purpose / need for crimping varies by the caliber and the application. In most rifle calibers, crimping is explicitly not needed and often counterproductive. Crimping a rifle cartridge requires that the reloader hold the case length to close tolerances, necessitating more frequent case trimming. In most cases, the case neck tension inherent in a case that has been correctly resized is adequate to hold a bullet in a rifle. The advertising for Lee regarding their "factory crimp die" is largely advertising hogwash. For those concerned with the last tiny margins of group size, crimping a rifle cartridge just adds another variable to the reloading process and the key to accuracy at those margins is consistency.

Exceptions to this in a rifle may occur in semi-auto rifles where there is more of a chance for bullet setback; or in tubular magazine guns.

Handgun cartridges ( other than single shot handguns that act more like short rifles ) more often require some form of crimp.

Semi-auto handguns in modern calibers headspace upon the case mouth, so excessive crimp especially a roll crimp can cause headspacing issues in extreme cases. Use a taper crimp that is crimped enough to keep the bullet from being setback in the magazine or as fed.

Revolver calibers are usually crimped with the roll crimp. One will often see advice to increase the amount of crimp for the heavier calibers or the heavier loads in a caliber. The purpose of the crimp in these cartridges is to increase tension on the bullet ( which some reloading authorities assert improves ignition for the slower powders - its arguable ) and to prevent the bullet from walking out of the case during recoil as its siblings in the cylinder are being fired.

[spqrzilla]

Buy an L.E. Wilson pistol gage for each pistol caliber you plan to reload. Follow directions included with gage.

Especially with the .40 S&W. And for some reason, 9x19mm gives me fits that require me to gage my rounds.

[Not_A_Llama]

Handgun cartridges ( other than single shot handguns that act more like short rifles ) more often require some form of crimp.

Semi-auto handguns in modern calibers headspace upon the case mouth, so excessive crimp especially a roll crimp can cause headspacing issues in extreme cases. Use a taper crimp that is crimped enough to keep the bullet from being setback in the magazine or as fed.
I'll differ here. Let me illustrate:

http://subpar.info/photos/coarf/9mmCartridges.jpg

These represent a typical selection of reloaded cartridges from my Lee dies. The "coke bottling" effect is caused by any proper resizing die; the Dillons are famous/notorious for an even more exaggerated version.

That the internal diameter of the casing behind the bullet is less than the diameter of the bullet itself is the main hindrance to bullet setback. You literally need to reverse-resize the casing in your action to achieve setback. Needless to say, this will not happen with recoil, and is even a task when smashed in the action of a semi-auto.

Fundamentally, my opposition to "crimping" is the tendency for people to go to extremes. It just doesn't pay off, compared to the headaches it's likely to induce. Also, the mechanism itself is much more tenuous than people believe. Lead reaches plastic deformation before brass. Trying to "hold in" lead with brass just won't do, when the brass elastically reverts after pressure is removed. You have to go to extremes, like crimping into a cannelure, before you'll see a consistent and significant effect.

There are obviously situations where crimping does apply and is necessary, but not for most people. I'm at around 15k/year of 9mm, and can't recommend it for that cartridge. Likewise 223 and 308.

I don't use a case gauge very much anymore. Maybe good when first setting up your dies, but I've never produced a cartridge after setup that legitimately didn't fit. I *have* had quite a few freakout sessions induced by debris stuck in the gauge, however. I encourage a healthy dose of paranoia, so I'm not condemning case gauges, but I'd say you don't strictly *need* them if you have a proven production process. And, in the end, the ultimate case gauge is your barrel's chamber.

[anomad]

I've been reloading for a while and never owned a case gauge. I just use the chamber of the intended firearm.

Crimping isn't a guessing game. Measure set back or run out with your loads. I have recreated the Speer tests with 5 grains of unique in a 38 special. Even with minimal crimp I get no run out even after letting one round riding the recoil of two full cylinders in an airweight.
I have measured reduced seating depth in a tubular magazine 44 magnum rifle with no crimp. So my 44 rifle loads get a light crimp.
Don't guess or take some random internet dudes advice, take your calipers to the range and see what works with your rig.

[zteknik]

I'm tracking this-Thanks for putting the info out for us n00bs![Beer]

[spqrzilla]

Not a Llama, your points are well taken.

[gnihcraes]

Max Cartridge Gauge - check 38/357 used cases after sizing, a fair amount have a bulge for some reason close to the rim and won't fit. Not sure it matters but I recycle them.

Get some Super Strong magnets and check used brass for steel cases. Quick and Easy.

I glued some small super strong magnets to the outside of my vibratory case cleaner, it catches all kinds of metal pieces and steel cases during polishing.

Any questionable brass, smash them with pliers or some other method that prevents you or anyone else from making a mistake and re-using them. Take these to the recycle center for extra $.

I have sheets created that I stick with the bags of brass and loaded ammo to explain what I've done or loaded. Running a single stage press, I will batch them and might not fully process the brass and return the next night to finish up, always good to know where I left off.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g463/gnihcraes/ReloadingCard.jpg

[bellavite1]

Well, believe it or not, I have never cleaned my cases.
I load 9,45,223,308 and 338LM,and I do not own a tumbler. I wipe excess lube when I do fl resizing,but that's it...Never had an issue.
My rounds are not shiny,but I'd rather shoot them than look at them.
Just a waste of time and momey in my experience.

[DeusExMachina]

Wiping off lube would be more of a waste of time. 20 minutes in the tumbler takes care of 300 rounds.

[Caithford]

Wiping off lube would be more of a waste of time. 20 minutes in the tumbler takes care of 300 rounds.

I read somewhere that it's not a good idea to tumble finished rounds. Am I misinterpreting?

[DeusExMachina]

I read somewhere that it's not a good idea to tumble finished rounds. Am I misinterpreting?

I haven't heard of any reasonable claim as to why.

[Zombie Steve]

Not a Llama started this thread just before I was about to re-work and post my Glocktalk Reloading 101 thread here.

Here's the original if any newbs are interested:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343188

[bellavite1]

Wiping off lube would be more of a waste of time. 20 minutes in the tumbler takes care of 300 rounds.
Not really, the only cases I lube are the 338LM, mostly I neck-size.
I reload 10 at the time, so it takes maybe a minute...but I see your point.

[DeusExMachina]

Not really, the only cases I lube are the 338LM, mostly I neck-size.
I reload 10 at the time, so it takes maybe a minute...but I see your point.

I load 300 9mm at a time, which is about all I can fit into my case cleaner. Different scale.

[Hoser]

I read somewhere that it's not a good idea to tumble finished rounds. Am I misinterpreting?

Its just an old wives tale.

Tumble away.

[fitz19d]

I think the two I'd heard (that he's thinking of) was concerns about allowing lube/grease or tumbling with wet media with all those possibly getting grease/water into the powder somehow?

Other was tumbling NON finished cases but after some of the sizing etc, would remove any lube but now you had to worry about reclearing flash holes and the case of the stray bits?



WIsh I hadn't lost some of those long threads of mine, though I think I remember enough. Was stuck on pause with reloading due to a move and upcoming trip, but now that I took a small loan for plane tickets I may use some of the excess and just go get the dillon stuff now. (Lose some interest from paying ahead of time but I"d rather get started now then lose loading time/shooting season, not to mention ongoing component price raises. )

[20X11]

I haven't heard of any reasonable claim as to why.

A long time ago, there was some talk about tumbling loaded rounds causing the powder to disintegrate(break down to finer grains). Now I'm not sure how many days someone would have to leave the tumbler going for this to happen, so I can't imagine a 20 minute tumble could hurt anything.

[Hoser]

A long time ago, there was some talk about tumbling loaded rounds causing the powder to disintegrate(break down to finer grains). Now I'm not sure how many days someone would have to leave the tumbler going for this to happen, so I can't imagine a 20 minute tumble could hurt anything.

Think about the time pallets of ammo spend in the back of a semi rolling down the road.

[Not_A_Llama]

Rather than speculate as to hypothetical powder breakdown, we can figure it out by inspection: factory loaded ammo is neither greasy nor dull.

20 mins in a tumbler won't hurt anything. Really, too, if you're just removing lube, that's a 5-10 minute job.

[Zombie Steve]

Think about the time pallets of ammo spend in the back of my truck rolling down the road.

Fixed.

[Caithford]

Fixed.

LOL! [ROFL2]

I think the forum I read had more to do with the "old wives tale" mentioned above that two rounds could collide and set the primer off.

Anyway, just wanted to be safe rather than sorry!

[ShipDate]

The best advise I can give is DO IT!!! I waited way too long to get into reloading. I wish I would have started 20 years ago.

As long as you stay within the lines, read, listen, and be careful, you'll be fine.

[jgang]

A long time ago, there was some talk about tumbling loaded rounds causing the powder to disintegrate(break down to finer grains). Now I'm not sure how many days someone would have to leave the tumbler going for this to happen, so I can't imagine a 20 minute tumble could hurt anything.

Many years ago, my dad tumbled some handloaded 7mm Rem Mag after he bought a new tumbler. (Guess he didn't have any fired cases handy and the handloads were dirty.) When fired, those particular loads, despite being proven to be sub MOA previously, wouldn't hold 4" at 100 yards. It really confounded the old man for awhile as he now had 50 rounds that wouldn't shoot. He rolled some new loads using identical componets (same lot numbers, weights, charges, etc., etc., etc.) and the new ones performed as they had before, sub MOA. He consulted a ballistics expert at Hornady and they came to the conclusion that the tumbling action somehow caused the problem, probably to the form or stability of the powder inside the case. Sounds strange, but it sounded plausible as all other known variables had been eliminated with the recreation of the new rounds.

While I don't have any reason to tumble loaded ammunition, I would certainly be hesitant to do so based on dad's experience....

[Great-Kazoo]

Many years ago, my dad tumbled some handloaded 7mm Rem Mag after he bought a new tumbler. (Guess he didn't have any fired cases handy and the handloads were dirty.) When fired, those particular loads, despite being proven to be sub MOA previously, wouldn't hold 4" at 100 yards. It really confounded the old man for awhile as he now had 50 rounds that wouldn't shoot. He rolled some new loads using identical componets (same lot numbers, weights, charges, etc., etc., etc.) and the new ones performed as they had before, sub MOA. He consulted a ballistics expert at Hornady and they came to the conclusion that the tumbling action somehow caused the problem, probably to the form or stability of the powder inside the case. Sounds strange, but it sounded plausible as all other known variables had been eliminated with the recreation of the new rounds.

While I don't have any reason to tumble loaded ammunition, I would certainly be hesitant to do so based on dad's experience....

I'm not going to surf the web to copy every thread in every forum that discounts the Do Not Tumble Because.........However the ones i read have people from the board who did testing of tumbled vs non tumbles, regarding powder break down accuracy etc. They concluded after X time in the tumbler had no effect what so ever.
However what is great about this country and some others is, you can do what you feel is best for you.

[Madusa]

A forest ranger out here on the west slope claims their Glock 40 s+w frame broke because of a pressure increase caused by the powder in the ammo braking down from vibration. The ammo was in the patrol vehicle for several months and it was factory ammo. I wasn't there when the gun broke but I saw the broken frame. I wouldn't tumble loaded ammo. Just in case.

[Great-Kazoo]

A forest ranger out here on the west slope claims their Glock 40 s+w frame broke because of a pressure increase caused by the powder in the ammo braking down from vibration. The ammo was in the patrol vehicle for several months and it was factory ammo. I wasn't there when the gun broke but I saw the broken frame. I wouldn't tumble loaded ammo. Just in case.

That ranger should have a BAC done. Someone's telling fish stories.
Here is one link from way back when.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300510

[anomad]

A forest ranger out here on the west slope claims their Glock 40 s+w frame broke because of a pressure increase caused by the powder in the ammo braking down from vibration. The ammo was in the patrol vehicle for several months and it was factory ammo. I wasn't there when the gun broke but I saw the broken frame. I wouldn't tumble loaded ammo. Just in case.

What agency does a "forest ranger" represent? What is "braking down"?

[Great-Kazoo]

A forest ranger out here on the west slope claims their Glock 40 s+w frame broke because of a pressure increase caused by the powder in the ammo braking down from vibration. The ammo was in the patrol vehicle for several months and it was factory ammo. I wasn't there when the gun broke but I saw the broken frame. I wouldn't tumble loaded ammo. Just in case.


This word should clear up the ammo issue.

[Mazin]

Not a Llama started this thread just before I was about to re-work and post my Glocktalk Reloading 101 thread here.

Here's the original if any newbs are interested:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343188

Your the man THX! [Beer]