Tumbler vs. Ultrasonic

[james_bond_007]

I posted a "WTB" ad for a tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner.
I got a lot of PM's saying to "stay away from Ultrasonics".

I've read other forums on this topic and am having trouble sorting out fact from fiction (aka opinions w/o any good reasons).

These range from
"I've never cleaned by brass and never will"
to
"I like real shiny brass, so I buff them with an electric buffer"
to
"Magic chemical formulas"

Being new to reloading, can you "teach me" about tumbling vs. ultrasonics ?

1) give me the pros and cons of tumblers vs. ultrasonics
2) media - Is walnut or corncob media from the pet store "good enough" and substantially cheaper ?
3) Ultrasonic Cleaning solutions - recommendations
4) Does the inside of a case need to be really clean ?
5) If so, does a tumbler clean the inside of cases as well (or good enough) as an ultrasonic?
6) Recommend an item (brand and type) for someone starting into reloading or brands and items to avoid ?

I plan to reload 7.62x51 or 5.56x45 to start out.

[rondog]

Ultrasonics will remove dirt, but I just can't see one removing tarnish, carbon or doing any polishing. I never had any luck anyway. But they're great for cleaning/degreasing gun parts, caburetors, and other small parts!

If you want perfect brass, the best method I've seen so far is the stainless steel pins in a Thumler's Model B rock tumbler. Use water, a little dish soap, a little Lemishine powder, and the high-speed version of the Thumler. The brass will look absolutely brand-new, inside and out, primer pockets too.

Everybody, and I mean everybody, does it differently. I personally use a Lyman Turbo Pro 1200. It's big enough for my needs, and the shape of the bowl really gets the brass and media moving. The bowl is shaped like an inverted doughnut, it's not flat in the center, the center is shaped like a column with a curved base, so the brass/media will rotate around and around very well. I really believe the shape of the bowl enhances the action greatly. I had a Frankford Arsenal model first, and it was flat like a mixing bowl with a threaded rod in the center. Didn't work worth a shit.

I deprime my brass first, and wash it all in hot soapy water to get rid of range dirt, sand, etc. Rinse well, then let dry in the sun on an old cookie sheet, sometimes in the oven on super low, or even on the gas grill.

Then I tumble in dry walnut bird litter from PetSmart, Kaytee brand. It's a little large and will stick in the flash holes, but there may be smaller available as lizard litter, or even at Harbor Freight as blast cabinet media. The point is, dry walnut media is more abrasive, and will scrub the brass better to remove tarnish and carbon. Some guys add liquid polish to it, which will help with shine, but I use walnut as a scrubber.

Then, I use a 20/40 grind of corncob that I bought at Grainger's, you can also order it from Drillspot. A 40# bag costs ~$25, and will last a lifetime. I put about 3 quarts of that in the tumbler, add about a tablespoon of NuFinish liquid Car Polish, and let it mix together for 15-30 minutes, or until it's mixed real good. The corncob is much softer than the walnut, and with the polish added it will take that scrubbed brass and shine it up like nobody's business.

But, like I said, everybody does it their own way. You'll get a million answers on every gun forum you go to.

For rifle cases, you'll want to avoid any really large media, the walnut I use is probably too big, but I have no problems. The really big stuff from WalMart or similar will pack up inside the cases and bring much suckage. Soot inside the cases - eh, they're gonna get sooty again anyway. But precision target shooters may argue the point about cleaning inside the cases.

You'll hear about walnut dry, walnut w/polish, corncob w/polish, walnut and corncob mixed w/polish, large grit vs. small grit, dry rice, ceramic spheres & soapy water, ceramic pins & soapy water (very bad in rifle cases, causes logjams!). Basically, avoid the "pre-made" polishing media at the gun stores that's red or green, and the bottom line is the stainless steel pins work the best of everything I've read about. I'm just too cheap to go there, and I've got a lifetime of walnut and corncob to use up first.

[Great-Kazoo]

But, like I said, everybody does it their own way. You'll get a million answers on every gun forum you go to.

I do a corncob media tumble with nufinish approx1 hr then run it through a separator to remove media. The brass comes out clean with no issues for my wants and needs.
As mentioned above everyone does it differently.
For rifle i tumble, size & deprime then tumble again to remove any brass lube. Pistol tumble then reload.
Start easy the see what works best for your reloading needs. Ii just started reloading again after a long hiatus. There is more info here and other reloading forums your mind can absorb in a day. Take you time and don't get cocky.

You can buy a new tumbler for under $50 at SW
If you use an ultrasonic cleaner, make sure the brass or any other items you sonic clean has a platform to rest on. ANYTHING placed directly on the bottom of the UC will end up destroying the ultrasonic pads in the unit. This is why any baskets or racks either are suspended in the solution or have rubber pads on them

[SSChameleon]

I started looking at tumblers and decided on stainless steel. Everyone does it differently since everyone has different ideas/priorities. Mine was all about economics.

I don't reload in high volume so I got a two barrel rock tumbler from harbor freight for $38 on sale. I ordered 5 lbs of stainless steel media for $27 delivered and some soap and lemishine for $3. (The Thumblers Tumbler is worth the money if you are going to be reloading in high volume).

As long as I don't wash the stainless steel pins down the drain I don't have to worry about getting more cleaning media so my only additional cost will be soap, lemishine and someday another tumbler, if I use this one enough to wear it out.

[clocker]

How is the HF tumbler working out? I've been thinking of picking one of those up because it would be much simpler than building one for small batches.

[C.hud]

I bought the ultrasonic cleaner at harbor freight and it looks exactly like the lyman one. The only differance is a name from what I can see in pictures, and I am not thrilled with it. When i use it, to me it just adds an extra step. Primer pockets are 50/50 on being clean. I am going to sell mine because i just done see a need for it. I found a tumbler just works fine. Buy a decent tumbler and you will be good!

[clocker]

Yeah, in the last 6 months I have tried:
-Medium duty ultrasonic: Pretty clean brass. Some dirty primer pockets. ~500 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~20 minutes cleaning ~24 hours drying.
-Lyman tumbler w/ corncob: Nice brass. Jammed flash holes and some dirty pockets. 500+ 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~4 hours tumbling
-HF ultrasonic: OK cleaning. Not impressive. ~150 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~20 minutes cleaning ~24 hours drying.

I picked up the SS pins to try them out and am interested to see if it works better than the rest. All of the methods have pros and cons. I wouldn't count the medium duty ultrasonics out, but you'll pay about the same as a good SS pin tumbler. For low cost and decent results, the vibratory tumblers seem to win hands down.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, in the last 6 months I have tried:
-Medium duty ultrasonic: Pretty clean brass. Some dirty primer pockets. ~500 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~20 minutes cleaning ~24 hours drying.
-Lyman tumbler w/ corncob: Nice brass. Jammed flash holes and some dirty pockets. 500+ 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~4 hours tumbling
-HF ultrasonic: OK cleaning. Not impressive. ~150 45 ACP capacity. Cycle time ~20 minutes cleaning ~24 hours drying.

I picked up the SS pins to try them out and am interested to see if it works better than the rest. All of the methods have pros and cons. I wouldn't count the medium duty ultrasonics out, but you'll pay about the same as a good SS pin tumbler. For low cost and decent results, the vibratory tumblers seem to win hands down.


Have you tried different media in the tumbler?

[SSChameleon]

My HF tumbler has worked well. It's the one with the red base and black rubber barrels. I read some reviews online and they all said to adjust the belt score the first use and make sure it stays oiled.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

Thumblers Tumbler and Steel media is the way to go! Rondog describes it perfectly!
http://imageplay.net/img/tya22270453//45ACP_1.jpghttp://imageplay.net/img/tya22270454//45ACP_2.jpghttp://imageplay.net/img/tya22270455//brass_300RUM.jpg
Some 45 ACP before and after. And some 300 RUM after cleaning. Cleans inside and out primer pockets and all!

[clocker]

Well I gotta say wow to the SS pins. Even with the cheap HF tumbler it made the brass look awesome! The primer pockets are much cleaner than either ultrasonic or media tumbling.

The only downside that I see is a bit more time and effort than other methods, but I'm sure it will get lots of use.

[JackRyan]

A few of you have mentioned using Ball Bearings as media for your tumblers. Where is a good place to find it and what size?

[Tim K]

I don't think anyone using ball bearings. Stainless steel pins are popular.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-cleaning/tumbling-media-additives/stainless-steel-media-prod42858.aspx

[TheBelly]

I use the HF tumbler with stainless pins. It works very well.

[JackRyan]

I use the HF tumbler with stainless pins. It works very well.

Whats a good source for stainless pins? Thanks for the reply.

[TheBelly]

Whats a good source for stainless pins? Thanks for the reply.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Stainless+media

I bought a 2 lb bag and just split it up between the two barrels of my tumbler.

[JackRyan]

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Stainless+media

I bought a 2 lb bag and just split it up between the two barrels of my tumbler.

Thanks for the info.

[Irving]

Has anyone ever tried just using stainless steel pins in a regular vibratory tumbler?

[Chad0724]

Has anyone ever tried just using stainless steel pins in a regular vibratory tumbler?
I use steel BB's in a rotary tumbler see my thread "so you want CLEAN brass"

[RANGERRON72]

Harbor Freight with SS pins, Dawn detergent and Lemishine, works great....use it for all my rifle brass after resize, deprime and trim. Comes out clean and shiny, and primer pockets are spotless.........