Getting some help finally from the military

[speedysst]

I hope this isnt a repost!

http://www.krdo.com/news/MAFFS-to-help-fight-Colo-wildfires/-/417220/15223482/-/126f6gpz/-/index.html

Lets get em loaded up and en route!

[Shodown]

About damn time. 2 of the planes are from my base in Cheyenne, too bad Im not MAFFS qualified :(

[10x]

Well, I wish they would start. It is 7:37 am and I haven't seen any aircraft this morning.
I thought the military woke up early.

[Birddog1911]

The problem isn't the military, it's more the forest service, and the civilian air tankers. All civilian assets must be exhausted before MAFFS can be mobilized. If you think that they haven't been dying to get up and help, in our own state, you'd be dead wrong.

It's the only part of flying that I miss; I loved MAFFS.

[Monky]

Retarded. That all civilian assets must be used first.

[Batteriesnare]

Retarded. That all civilian assets must be used first.

Agreed, especially if people's houses are burning due to lack of commercial services. However, channel 11 yesterday made the statement that the couldn't use the AF because it "would be taking jobs from the private sector."

[onebadfx4]

If its a Guard plane, you would think the Governor could just emergency mobilize the unit to help out. Its a shame common sense has no play in any of this.

[Monky]

Agreed, especially if people's houses are burning due to lack of commercial services. However, channel 11 yesterday made the statement that the couldn't use the AF because it "would be taking jobs from the private sector."

the .gov has the resources, which are paid for sitting there or not.. yet they'd rather 'pay' the private sector which can not match demand as our whole state is on fire.. and finally we get to use the .mil services..

I really hate bs .gov red tape. If there is a need (and I'm pretty sure NO ONE would argue that point) who gives a shit.. taking jobs from the private sector which can't match demand as more people's lives burn..

[Hoser]

The whole civilian assets part of this thread has not been a player for many years.

[Ronin13]

the .gov has the resources, which are paid for sitting there or not.. yet they'd rather 'pay' the private sector which can not match demand as our whole state is on fire.. and finally we get to use the .mil services..

I really hate bs .gov red tape. If there is a need (and I'm pretty sure NO ONE would argue that point) who gives a shit.. taking jobs from the private sector which can't match demand as more people's lives burn..

My friend is in the COANG HQ and he said they've tasked out more air support assets to help fight all these fires. I think just about every UH-60 and CH-47 available to task out is currently under orders from the governor to help fight these fires. I say good on them, that's what the NG is for, and why not? They could use all the help they can get.

[Monky]

The whole civilian assets part of this thread has not been a player for many years.

You get to go up and spray yet Hoser?

[theGinsue]

Just saw the press brief from Peterson AFB. Didn't see you on T.V. though Hoser.

[El Caballo Loco]

The camera was mounted to high. If you looked hard enough you may have been able to see his shadow on the bottom of the screen.

[Birddog1911]

The whole civilian assets part of this thread has not been a player for many years.

Thanks for correcting me, Hoser. It's been 5 years since I was last doing MAFFS. Be safe out there.

[TennVol]

Quote from 25 Jun 2012 USNORTHCOM press release: "Two MAFFS aircraft will be coming from the 153rd Airlift Wing in Cheyenne, Wyo., and two aircraft will be from the local 302nd Airlift Wing here in Colorado Springs, Colo. The aircraft will be operating from Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo. MAFFS are important because they provide a "surge" capability that is used to boost wildfire suppression efforts when commercial airtankers are fully committed or not readily available. This criteria was recently met."

And this is from WildFireToday.com: "The aircraft can be requested by the U. S. Forest Service after it is confirmed that all commercial air tankers are committed."

And then there is this from MAFFS PROGRAM OBJECTIVES AND PROCEDURES 8338.2.1
(Revised September 2001)

"MAFFS aircraft are intended for activation and use when regular fire agency and private sector airtanker resources are depleted or not readily available. Federal law prohibits use
of MAFFS units if these conditions are not met. MAFFS units will be the first released from the incident.

Each airlift wing can activate 2 C-130 aircraft equipped with MAFFS units. Activation time ranges from 12 to 24 hours, depending on availability of aircraft and flight crews."


Bottom line - no MAFFS flights can take place until all other aerial assets have been committed or are otherwise unavailable...

[275RLTW]

Retarded. That all civilian assets must be used first.

Sure. Guess police should stop responding to calls and we'll just let the National Guard handle it!

[Birddog1911]

Hoser could definately speak to the complexity better than me, but standing up 4 aircraft, support crews, flight crews, equipment, etc., etc., is a pretty daunting task. Aircraft have to be preflighted and then the MAFFS equipment loaded into the aircraft. As I understand it, some of the replenishing equipment was located in Idaho, and was trucked down through the night.

[jerrymrc]

Hoser could definately speak to the complexity better than me, but standing up 4 aircraft, support crews, flight crews, equipment, etc., etc., is a pretty daunting task. Aircraft have to be preflighted and then the MAFFS equipment loaded into the aircraft. As I understand it, some of the replenishing equipment was located in Idaho, and was trucked down through the night.

I have a new found respect for ya because even though I was Army I have an understanding of how the transitions for a 130 take place. (I also had to load for them back in the day) [Beer]

[Monky]

Sure. Guess police should stop responding to calls and we'll just let the National Guard handle it!

Perhaps you fail to grasp what my intent was. Take off the 'foil hat'.

With as many wild fires as are currently burning in this state, to delay any by waiting for civilian assets to be used it retarded. We are not talking about Martial law being declared and the army running in the streets. It is about using any and ALL available resources WHEN they are needed. I'd say after breaking containment and burning 80k+ acres I'd say the .gov could cut the bs and see that help was needed...

Oh and the other fires that popped up in the state in the last week.. yeah.. those might require attention too.. So it's not about the national guard responding to police calls.. it is about getting the equipment needed and used that is readily available to knock these fires out.

[Hoser]

You get to go up and spray yet Hoser?

We finally got to go fly until Mother Nature grounded us.


Just saw the press brief from Peterson AFB. Didn't see you on T.V. though Hoser.

I was on the plane working. I am usually wearing an illegal baseball hat or something else, so I tend to avoid cameras.

Hopefully today we can get back to work early.

[Birddog1911]

Hoser, are the new systems much better than the old ones?

[Ronin13]

Just to let everyone know, and I have a bit of knowledge in this- currently, I believe, we have a Type II or III federal incident management team orchestrating all the efforts for this fire up near Ft. Collins. Their logistics officer is in charge of asking for resources and what the Feds decide to allocate for the efforts are what they use. There are two types of fire fighting resources to use: Private, and public. They can both be used either independently or combined depending on the fire, the situation, and the seriousness.

Remember, fighting a fire involves a lot of bureaucracy the higher level of FIM team involved. They have to follow SOP and file requests with their higher ups. They get what is available and able to be deployed. With all the activity around the country and this time of year I'll bet a lot of resources are tasked out and they have to try and figure out what goes where. It's a very complicated matter.

[OneGuy67]

Just to let everyone know, and I have a bit of knowledge in this- currently, I believe, we have a Type II or III federal incident management team orchestrating all the efforts for this fire up near Ft. Collins. Their logistics officer is in charge of asking for resources and what the Feds decide to allocate for the efforts are what they use. There are two types of fire fighting resources to use: Private, and public. They can both be used either independently or combined depending on the fire, the situation, and the seriousness.

Remember, fighting a fire involves a lot of bureaucracy the higher level of FIM team involved. They have to follow SOP and file requests with their higher ups. They get what is available and able to be deployed. With all the activity around the country and this time of year I'll bet a lot of resources are tasked out and they have to try and figure out what goes where. It's a very complicated matter.

Having just come from there, I can tell you there is a Type I management team on the ground.

[marty]

I think Hick could have / should have (and maybe he did) made some calls / pleas for those planes regardless of if all private / commercial assets were not used up, given the situation here.

[Birddog1911]

Actually, Marty, he was making the request as early as Sat. evening, Sun. morning.

[OneGuy67]

What Hoser knows, but many probably do not is, the Governor does not have any control over the Air Force Reserves. They are a federal entity, unlike the National Guard, which is a state entity. The Colorado Air National Guard doesn't have any C-130 assets, just fighter planes. So, the Governor couldn't just "call up" the assets, like he did my unit.

[motorep]

We finally got to go fly until Mother Nature grounded us.



I was on the plane working. I am usually wearing an illegal baseball hat or something else, so I tend to avoid cameras.

Hopefully today we can get back to work early.

You were on Fox news this morning. Taped from yesterday they said.