Obamacare ruling

[tmleadr03]

Just heard on the radio.

Maybe, maybe not. No one really knows right now.

[Sharpienads]

Retracted.

Mods, can you close or merge with "Health Care Unconstitutional" Thread?

MOD EDIT: Merged the threads together for you.

[asmo]

I walked by SCOTUS on the way into the office this morning. I get the feeling that there is going to be a rumble in the streets.

[Sharpienads]

Dang, same time, different thread.

[tmleadr03]

Fuck, I obviously heard that wrong. Individual mandate beign held up?

[asmo]

My *VERY* quick read: the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government's power to terminate states' Medicaid funds is narrowly read.

[ghettodub]

I just read that the mandate was struck down

[Updated at 10:06 a.m. ET] In a landmark decision that will impact the nation for decades, the Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a key provision of President Barack Obama's health care law, ruling that requiring people to have health insurance violates the Constitution.

[Sharpienads]

I don't know what's going on... I've heard i was upheld, struck down, the individual mandate will become a tax...

Somebody's reporting that everything was upheld.

[tmleadr03]

I just read that the mandate was struck down

[Updated at 10:06 a.m. ET] In a landmark decision that will impact the nation for decades, the Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a key provision of President Barack Obama's health care law, ruling that requiring people to have health insurance violates the Constitution.

I am listening right now on the radio and it sounds like only the medicare penalties are being struck down.

[yankeefan98121]

mixed reports out there, wtf

[Sharpienads]

The whole law has passed SCOTUS intact.

Fuck.

[asmo]

Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it.

[Waywardson174]

Mandate = tax = upheld. Scotusblog.com

[ghettodub]

Incredible that every news source is reporting something different right now. Awesome journalism in this country...

[yankeefan98121]

The whole law has passed SCOTUS intact.

Fuck.

[Updated at 10:15 a.m. ET] The Supreme Court has upheld the entire health care law by a vote of 5 to 4, Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears said. That includes the medicare provision

[RCCrawler]

not what the AP is saying.

"WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court has upheld the individual insurance requirement at the heart of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul. The court on Thursday handed Obama a campaign-season victory in rejecting arguments that Congress went too far in requiring most Americans to have health insurance or pay a penalty."

[Sharpienads]

Incredible that every news source is reporting something different right now. Awesome journalism in this country...

Yep.

But I heard the majority opinion from Chief Roberts and he said the mandate is a tax and therefore constitutional.

[tmleadr03]

Fuck.

[buckeye4rnr]

We're all screwed. The entire thing was upheld

[buckeye4rnr]

Europe here we come.

[waxthis]

Unreal..Well there you have it, the constitution is no more....:(

[yankeefan98121]

fucking thing passed

[tmleadr03]

Damn, we really did post it exactly the same time! Yours is better written, but I was driving down I25 when I posted. LOL!

[RMD]

It was upheld as a TAX.

If there's any silver lining, it's that SCOTUS stopped the feds from using the commerce clause as a tool to pass whatever they wanted.

[yankeefan98121]

fucking thing passed

yup, upheld

[RMD]

Mandate = tax = upheld. Scotusblog.com

This.

Roberts? Dang.

[asmo]

Kenndey's opening line:
In our view, the entire Act before us is invalid in its entirety.

Too bad it didn't hold

[asmo]

The Affordable Care Act, including its individual mandate that virtually all Americans buy health insurance, is constitutional. There were not five votes to uphold it on the ground that Congress could use its power to regulate commerce between the states to require everyone to buy health insurance. However, five Justices agreed that the penalty that someone must pay if he refuses to buy insurance is a kind of tax that Congress can impose using its taxing power. That is all that matters. Because the mandate survives, the Court did not need to decide what other parts of the statute were constitutional, except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding. On that question, the Court held that the provision is constitutional as long as states would only lose new funds if they didn't comply with the new requirements, rather than all of their funding.

[streetglideok]

I have a feeling this mess is not over yet.

[asmo]

If you want to read the ruling: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

WARNING: If you read Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito's dissent you will want to start shooting people in the streets.

[palepainter]

Amazing that they couldn't see that only the people who pay taxes....will be paying the taxes. We are so screwed. This just opens up more doors for socialist agenda.

[Scanker19]

except for a provision that required states to comply with new eligibility requirements for Medicaid or risk losing their funding.

What's that? All Illegals get it before American Citizens?

[Singlestack]

Decisions like this and the Connecticut eminent domain case (Kelo?) that said a commercial developer can take your home leads me to believe we cannot depend on the courts to prevent utter tyrrany. The best defense are those firearms in the safe...

Singlestack

[RMD]

Largest tax increase in history? Wonder if Romney can do something with that...

[Zundfolge]

America is dead.

We are no longer citizens, we are subjects.

We just crossed Claire Wolfe's line.


Doesn't matter if obamacare get repealed, the precedent is now set, the federal government owns us and we own nothing.

[MED]

I can't believe Roberts voted this way!!!

[CrufflerSteve]

Essentially the court is not all that conservative. It just loves the power of the state. Roberts had a real history with this before his nomination. There might be small consolation that the commerce clause isn't as universal as it used to be. Calling it a tax might also play well in the election.

I'd had doubts that it would survive. I really expected it to be struck down as an overreach. This would be legal at the state level. The state does all sorts of mandates. OTOH, the individual mandate had been a Republican idea until recently so I wondered about the Bush judges. The Democraps had just wanted it to be state giveaways and Republicans saw it as individual responsibility.

Steve

[CO Hugh]

Europe here we come.

Try Bolshivik Soviet Union with the current regime in power that admire the Chinese system with no dissenting powers in government. What next Barrack's 5 year plan to move us forward in our cultural revolution.

[palepainter]

WELCOME TO CANADA!!!! Let's replace the stars on the flags with little maple leafs......

[CO Hugh]

Decisions like this and the Connecticut eminent domain case (Kelo?) that said a commercial developer can take your home leads me to believe we cannot depend on the courts to prevent utter tyrrany. The best defense are those firearms in the safe...

Singlestack

No you need to elect people that believe in Originalism and love the Constitution.

[Zundfolge]

WARNING: If you read Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito's dissent you will want to start shooting people in the streets.

The people we need to start shooting aren't in the streets (except when they're riding around in bullet proof limos).

[Sharpienads]

http://youtu.be/7UcxU8PtzRs

It's not a tax.

[trlcavscout]

Now I am gonna have to become a welfare lesbian and get fee osama care [Rant1] I am dumping my shitty overpriced "health care" this november.

[Veritas]

I really think the SCOTUS missed the mark on this one. I'm now wondering what the next thing will be that the gov't tells me I have to buy, now that the precedent is set. Medical care was never meant to be a right or a public service and every recent poll reflects this as the opinion of a majority of Americans. The sad truth is that even if the Republicans succed in repealing the AFA (and that's a really big if) the precedent now stands for any numbers of law to be passed of this nature. The implications of this ruling extend much furhter than the AFA. I think this could one of the worst decisions the court has made since Roe v. Wade. A small piece of our liberty was eroded today and we are now weaker for it.

[Zundfolge]

At this point the only way the Republic can be saved within the system is if the AFA is 100% repealed and then followed by a series of constitutional amendments forbidding the fed.gov from even thinking about trying anything like it again.

Going to be hard enough to get the first part done, the second is likely impossible.

We're fucked.

[gos]

Romneycare/Obamacare whatever.

I'm pissed about the Citizens United ruling, and that it's now legal to lie about military service.

[Sharpienads]

We're fucked.

Proper fucked.

[BPTactical]

Romneycare/Obamacare whatever.

I'm pissed about the Citizens United ruling, and that it's now legal to lie about military service.

Agreed.
Integrity and Honor mean nothing in this country anymore.

[TEAMRICO]

The SCOTUS has spoken, the President has spoken. What are you going to do?
Yell. Hoot, holler, inventory your guns?
You will take it like a man, deal with it and move on.

Do your duty in November.

[onebadfx4]

Terrible choice. If they will allow this to pass, I am sure anything will.

[sniper7]

"If an individual does not maintain health insurance, the only consequence is that he must make an additional payment to the IRS when he pays his taxes," Roberts writes. He adds that this means "the mandate is not a legal command to buy insurance. Rather, it makes going without insurance just another thing the government taxes, like buying gasoline or earning an income."

So let me get this right....if you DON'T have something, now the .gov can tax you on it. This is equivalent to saying that if you don't have a hybrid, you are going to get taxed 1%.

I understand that those without insurance cost the country as a whole a lot of money...but THAT is what needs to get changed. no insurance...good luck!



well, I'm going to get on my political soap box now and tell every single one of you that want to vote third party that this decision is the one and only thing that you need to consider when you cast your vote in november. If obama gets 4 more years...you ARE going to look at 20+ years of these kind of rulings. I read through the comments on here and see how pissed people are, some saying the constitution is gone, America is dead, welcome to Canada etc. etc. If you feel that way, November need to be the starting point.

[yankeefan98121]

So let me get this right....if you DON'T have something, now the .gov can tax you on it. This is equivalent to saying that if you don't have a hybrid, you are going to get taxed 1%.

I understand that those without insurance cost the country as a whole a lot of money...but THAT is what needs to get changed. no insurance...good luck!



well, I'm going to get on my political soap box now and tell every single one of you that want to vote third party that this decision is the one and only thing that you need to consider when you cast your vote in november. If obama gets 4 more years...you ARE going to look at 20+ years of these kind of rulings. I read through the comments on here and see how pissed people are, some saying the constitution is gone, America is dead, welcome to Canada etc. etc. If you feel that way, November need to be the starting point.

Agreed, get out there and vote

[buckeye4rnr]

To sum up the SCOTUS decision on the mandate: The federal government cannot force you to do whatever it wants. However, the federal government can TAX you to force you to do whatever it wants.

[sniper7]

Not to mention as well that Romney is vowing to repeal Obamacare his first day in office.
Let's give him the chance. If he doesn't then we can make our dissatisfaction known at that time. Cause I'm fucking positive obama isn't going to repeal it.

[ghettodub]

This article cracked me up

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare
I'm sure they'll like the healthcare just fine there.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare

[yankeefan98121]

This article cracked me up

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare
I'm sure they'll like the healthcare just fine there.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare


hahaha I may bitch about some of the shite that happens here in this great country, but fuck any ideas about leaving! hahaha [ROFL1]

[palepainter]

Ya....Im going to be fine right here. The country needs us loudmouth gun owners. :)

[Zundfolge]

Not to mention as well that Romney is vowing to repeal Obamacare his first day in office.
Let's give him the chance. If he doesn't then we can make our dissatisfaction known at that time. Cause I'm fucking positive obama isn't going to repeal it.
Repeal of Obamacare will stave off the complete collapse of the economy for a bit, but it doesn't matter as far as liberty is concerned because the SCOTUS just affirmed the right of the Federal Government to impose ANY restriction on your behavior by fiat.

Wickard v. Filburn + Kelo v. City of New London + National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius = Constitution gone (forever ... or at least until the new constitution is ratified in the new republic but that will require a civil war first which will more likely result in the institution of a fascist police state and not a free republic).



People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare
I'm sure they'll like the healthcare just fine there.
*Facepalm*
Seriously folks, America was humanity's last bastion of liberty ... its gone now, there's no place else to go (and frankly things aren't going to get unbearable here for another couple decades and at the same time it'll get worse elsewhere. Thank God the wife and I couldn't have kids).

[yankeefan98121]

Ya....Im going to be fine right here. The country needs us loudmouth gun owners. :)

+1, and I'm not talking about asshats like Zimmerman. It's people like him and Raul Rodriguez that makes it easy for antigunfucktards (yeah that's right, considered one word to me) to point and say "...see look, we need MORE gun control.."

Just a side note, not trying to derail[Beer]

[Rucker61]

Not to mention as well that Romney is vowing to repeal Obamacare his first day in office.


I don't believe that POTUS has that power.

[TEAMRICO]

I don't believe that POTUS has that power.

Well the current POS..err POTUS is raising the bar of what he can and cant do on his own so why not?

[sniper7]

I don't believe that POTUS has that power.

I say at least give him the opportunity...because obama is for damn sure not going to do it his first day back if he gets reelected.

[Rucker61]

I say at least give him the opportunity...because obama is for damn sure not going to do it his first day back if he gets reelected.

I guess I was saying that the repeal will have to go through Congress, not through Executive decision. I agree that Obama will not likely work to repeal something that he considers a major part of his legacy.

[flan7211]

The immigration law forever changed the relationship between the states and the feds. This ruling about health insurance was not about health insurance. This forever changes the relationship between citizens and the feds. We are subjects to a dying land. If it was about insurance they could have made another entitlement and provided a tax. No this punishes those who won't comply with this power grab. The republic died a little more today.


I'm disgusted. VOTE ROMNEY! He's a son of a bitch but we have to give him a chance.

[Ronin13]

Well, with the country in its final years of life as we know it, can we now try and get the word out that if Obama is re-elected we may need to repeat the 1770's? I say that loosely so I don't have the men in suits come to my door, MAY being the key word here... but really our options are running out, especially if Romney doesn't win.

[Steps]

Romney MUST win.

It is up to those of us who have commen sense, and an understanding of what this nation was built upon, to get those who never vote to go out and do whats right!

I am dragging at LEAST 10 people with me when I go to vote. We can make a difference because CO is a swing state, so every person we get to vote could lead to a Romney win in our state.

[Chad4000]

Well, with the country in its final years of life as we know it, can we now try and get the word out that if Obama is re-elected we may need to repeat the 1770's? I say that loosely so I don't have the men in suits come to my door, MAY being the key word here... but really our options are running out, especially if Romney doesn't win.


agreed...

I have been saying for a long time now that this is an absolutely mind boggling time in history to be a part of... the biggest changes that the world has ever seen could be coming in our lifetimes...

it's almost fuggin magical to watch it's so staggering...

[Danimal]

I just threw up in my mouth again. This country is f*cked, all we need now is for Obummer to get re-elected and I'm ridin' this bitch into the ground. Maybe I can get a job with the secret police when they are formed up so I don't have as long of a line to wait in to pick up my ration of cabbage.

[flan7211]

At what point is it too far? At what point do we say no? We're eating too well, working with our blinders on, and being entertained to our hearts content. Our fathers rebelled over sales taxes that were all under 5%. We are never going to do anything about it.

[Ronin13]

agreed...

I have been saying for a long time now that this is an absolutely mind boggling time in history to be a part of... the biggest changes that the world has ever seen could be coming in our lifetimes...

it's almost fuggin magical to watch it's so staggering...
Yep and I can trace just about every single problem we have right now to the Democrats! 9/11- could have been avoided if Clinton wasn't such a vagina and actually took a hard stance against terrorism which really took off in the 1990's... not to mention the precedence he set when everyone learned from Mogadishu "If you kill Americans they will pull out." Obama is mostly to blame for not digging us out of Clinton's old economic mess (Fanny and Freddie!) that was just ready to implode given the right circumstances. Carter is to blame for the pussified stance he took on Iran back in the 70's. See? Democrats have been ruining everything since Carter! I could go on and on about Oblowme but then I'd just be too tempted to drive out to DC right now just to spit in his eye!


At what point is it too far? At what point do we say no? We're eating too well, working with our blinders on, and being entertained to our hearts content. Our fathers rebelled over sales taxes that were all under 5%. We are never going to do anything about it.
They will continue to drink the kool aid even after they are told it's poison. [Bang]

[Irving]

I am not at all confident that Romney would do a damn thing about this.

[BPTactical]

Romney MUST win.

It is up to those of us who have commen sense, and an understanding of what this nation was built upon, to get those who never vote to go out and do whats right!

I am dragging at LEAST 10 people with me when I go to vote. We can make a difference because CO is a swing state, so every person we get to vote could lead to a Romney win in our state.

+10

Some of the Noobs here lately are bringing a good vision[Beer]

Although this ruling brings some thoroughly fucked things I think the SCOTUS is sending a pretty clear message to the citizens of the country:
It is the RESPONSIBILITY of the voters, if we don't like things we have the ability to change it. "It's not our job to protect the people from the consiquences of their political choices" Chief Justice John Roberts. Like it or not he is correct.
I see this ruling as a gelling factor to anybody who opposes Obamacare. We now have a clear, defined goal.

Last I recall close to 70% of the general public opposed Obamacare.
70%-thats a HUGE number

[Rooskibar03]

Bingo. The SC just ruled the government can make you purchase anything they want. You now can develope a crummy product, fail miserably, and then convince a congressman or senator that "the people" must have your product and poof, you've got a successful business.

The greatest civilizations in history always crumble around the 200 year mark. Welcome to the end people.




The immigration law forever changed the relationship between the states and the feds. This ruling about health insurance was not about health insurance. This forever changes the relationship between citizens and the feds. We are subjects to a dying land. If it was about insurance they could have made another entitlement and provided a tax. No this punishes those who won't comply with this power grab. The republic died a little more today.


I'm disgusted. VOTE ROMNEY! He's a son of a bitch but we have to give him a chance.

[Wiggity]

Prepare your anus.


Our best bet is to vote for Obama so we can begin reconstruction within our lifetimes.

[00tec]

Romney MUST win.

It is up to those of us who have commen sense, and an understanding of what this nation was built upon, to get those who never vote to go out and do whats right!

I am dragging at LEAST 10 people with me when I go to vote. We can make a difference because CO is a swing state, so every person we get to vote could lead to a Romney win in our state.

I call shotgun!

I don't like Mittens much, but this idiocy has to end.

[waxthis]

Prepare your anus.


Our best bet is to vote for Obama so we can begin reconstruction within our lifetimes.


Hmmm...Thinking outside the box, I like it. So perhaps by the time my kids reach my age, this country might be whole again...

[Singlestack]

Man, what just happened? In my gaming out what would happen, I never considered that John Roberts would join the libs to uphold the whole thing. Well, Mittens is the last bullet in the legislative pistol, and if he is a FTL/FTF/FTE then truly we are done. Of course, if Beeho wins its over completely, as we will have a police state within the next 4 years. Expect very difficult times, loss of freedoms if you oppose him in any way, and frequent civil unrest.

Even if Mittens does what he says he is going to do, it is now clear that the current SCOTUS will NOT be reining in the power of the fed gov.

A very sad and disturbing day.

Singlestackus

[Ridge]

Of course, if Beeho wins its over completely, as we will have a police state within the next 4 years.

I will bet you $250 that if he gets re-elected, this will not happen.

And I mean actual police state, not the sort of bullshit people call a police state like smacking down violent protests and arresting people.

I'm talking people disappear for talking bad about the government, and surrender of civil rights.

[Rucker61]

I will bet you $250 that if he gets re-elected, this will not happen.

And I mean actual police state, not the sort of bullshit people call a police state like smacking down violent protests and arresting people.

I'm talking people disappear for talking bad about the government, and surrender of civil rights.

Better get those definitions agreed upon in writing.

[Zundfolge]

I am not at all confident that Romney would do a damn thing about this.
I am convinced that he'll probably work harder to repeal ObamaCare then anything else he does. Not because its the right thing to do, but because its the politically expedient thing to do.


I will bet you $250 that if he gets re-elected, this will not happen.

And I mean actual police state, not the sort of bullshit people call a police state like smacking down violent protests and arresting people.

I'm talking people disappear for talking bad about the government, and surrender of civil rights.

Its a dumb bet because even if you win the hyperinflation his policies cause will make your $250 winnings worth only like 50 cents. [ROFL1]

[Adawg38]

[Kick1]

[Zundfolge]

The other problem with the "let Obama win and we can start over" that these armchair resistance leaders don't think about is the piles and piles of bodies it takes to get there ... women, children, elderly, and most of a generation of young men will die. Many in agonizing ways.

650,000 died between 1861-1865, a second civil war will dwarf that by at least a factor of 10. That was out of a total population of about 25 Million so 2.6% so that would be 9,100,000. Nine point one million people dead. And frankly we have better weapons and more tightly packed cities so it would likely be even higher.

[roberth]

This speaks volumes of your naivety. As I've stated before, the theory that a lot put forth of "Lets fuck everything over to fix it" is in its essence, moronic. In its application, outright dangerous.

Is the old adage... "The only way to fix it is to break it into itsy bitsy pieces and watch it magically fix itself"? No? Didn't think so.

If you really think there would any correction after your destruction, and we would have some beautiful society in the future, look around your fellow society. Who is walking among you. Do you really think that there is "reconstruction", the economy magically improves, you don't pay any taxes anymore, etc? All these idiots still exist in the country WITH you. THEY dictate what forms, not YOU.

Your mindset is worse than the furthest left liberal ideology.

If you want everyone to just start over, be prepared for no second amendment, no first, no forth. No constitution. No anything. Be prepared to live in squalor for your life, and subject your children to the same. You really think libertarians, tea party, whatever you are, will be the ones dictating or creating a new government, what, are you that retarded? I'm a REALIST. I live in REALITY. The majority of people out there are utterly mindless zombies with no common sense; you would be led by hedonists that hate your viewpoint, beliefs, and values.

Fantasy is all real nice for fun and games, but do me a favor and don't fuck over a country. If you don't like the status quo, get off your ass and work on fixing it, don't shoot it in the head.

"Everything tends towards chaos" it's the rule of the universe. Things typically fall apart, they don't typically build themselves.


+1000000000

Tired of hearing people say they will vote for Obama or a 3rd party candidate and rebuild. Rebuild what? Pretty flippin hard to rebuild it all once it's all gone! Russia has done a real fine job rebuilding what 70 years of liberalism tossed in there. The prick has gotten his way regarding healthcare, natural resources, taxation, the economy, etc. The only thing missing is the 2nd Amend.

England gave up their guns over a stupid 1 time shooting- and they will NEVER get them back. They are falling further and further into a socialist hole. Just 100 years ago England made some of the finest guns in the world: Purdey, Churchill, Vickers, Webley, Lee Enfield, . Today you can't even carry a pocket knife on their Underground. How can you protect/defend yourself and your country once you've given up the tools to do it.

Just let Obama get elected again and let the cocksuckers take the House. That 2nd Amend will be gone in a heartbeat. He will have nada to lose. He will make it a priority to ruin it all. Who cares if it get repealed 5 years later- we will all be out our firearms or at least...gun registration.

There is no rebuilding from scratch, we start with what we have now and move forward. Going backward means every single person suffers needlessly and conservatives most of all.

We've gone backward far enough but probably not far enough for the liberals. It is time for the adults to take control and that means putting the GOP in the Presidency, House, and Senate this year and in the coming years putting more conservatives and some libertarians at the helm.

People are not basically good so any fantasy about burning it all down and starting over is crap. You'll turn this entire nation into a ghetto where the ends will truly justify the means. I don't think any right thinking person wants wholesale murder to be the rule of the day and that is exactly what you'll get if you burn it down.

[palepainter]

+1000000000

Just let Obama get elected again and let the cocksuckers take the House. That 2nd Amend will be gone in a heartbeat. He will have nada to lose. He will make it a priority to ruin it all. Who cares if it get repealed 5 years later- we will all be out our firearms or at least...gun registration.

That will be the straw that broke the camel's back. There will be a large number of those who will be unwilling. They can tax the shit out of us for a few more months. If Obama wins again, you may be right and he may try a move on the 2nd. That would be his biggest miscalculation IMO.

[roberth]

The other problem with the "let Obama win and we can start over" that these armchair resistance leaders don't think about is the piles and piles of bodies it takes to get there ... women, children, elderly, and most of a generation of young men will die. Many in agonizing ways.

650,000 died between 1861-1865, a second civil war will dwarf that by at least a factor of 10. That was out of a total population of about 25 Million so 2.6% so that would be 9,100,000. Nine point one million people dead. And frankly we have better weapons and more tightly packed cities so it would likely be even higher.

You're exactly right. Armchair resistance leaders also forget that THEIR families will be part of that slaughter. Some people have this stupid idea that they'll survive the onslaught wholly in tact and that just isn't going to happen.

You want to test it? Go to City Park tonight and see how you fare against the gangs when you try to take their turf. That'll wake your ass up if they don't kill you.

[sniper7]

If we want good jobs and a bright economic future, for ourselves and for our kids, we must replace Obamacare. That is my mission. That is our work.




this is what Romney put on his facebook.

[gos]

this is what Romney put on his facebook.

Romney will put anything on his facebook if the wind is blowing the right way. The instant he gets elected, who knows what would happen.

[TS12000]

So since it's considered a tax can you be jailed for tax evasion for not paying it [Coffee]?

[sniper7]

Romney will put anything on his facebook if the wind is blowing the right way. The instant he gets elected, who knows what would happen.

please tell me the alternative?

1: vote 3rd party so Obama gets the majority vote and wins...obamacare stays in place, probably appoints another SCOTUS justice or two, and we all have probably 20 years of liberal rulings.

2: don't vote, same thing as option 1.

3: vote for obama thinking the ship will sink faster, depending on your condition most people will fall into deep poverty and rely on the .gov for everything. police state, don't comply, get locked up, don't see your kids...etc etc. goes downtown. maybe a revolution, but more than likely not well enough coordinated and too little too late.

4: vote Romney, MAYBE he will do something to turn things around, repeal obamacare, appoint new SCOTUS justices to maintain the current slight favor to the conservative side...maybe something will come up and a liberal justice will have to retire. Romeny can work with the house, fight against the senate and try to get something positive done about the economy with putting us into deeper debt...maybe even spend less than what is coming in. these are things he said he would do, and definitely the opposite of what Obama is doing and would do for the next 4 years.



The unknown is more intriguing than the known.

If you don't believe my quote, go look at a victorias secret magazine, then a playboy and tell me you aren't more curious to see what is under the VS models lingerie than what you can see in the playboy.

[Irving]

Thoughts on this view point for the decision?

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/06/9398-why-chief-justice-roberts-made-the-right-long-term-decision-with-obamacare/

[Batteriesnare]

Thoughts on this view point for the decision?

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/06/9398-why-chief-justice-roberts-made-the-right-long-term-decision-with-obamacare/

Interesting perspective, certainly gave me pause to consider the angle, but I dont think that was the intent of the opinion.

[sniper7]

Thoughts on this view point for the decision?

http://www.ijreview.com/2012/06/9398-why-chief-justice-roberts-made-the-right-long-term-decision-with-obamacare/


While the outlook from that article is positive, and I still question why Roberts didn't side with the conservative justices and strike the whole thing down, I do understand the meaning behind his decision.

The problem is, not everyone will see it that way, and many many many many more Americans are going to suffer because of this. Financially and beyond. Health care is already increasing premiums and cutting back services/protections etc. that is a dead nuts fact. The only way around this is an excess in income to pay out of pocket or be able to cover the very large out-of-pocket expenses that are becoming the norm of typical health coverage.

Right now most places, private and .gov, are going to Health Savings Accounts, or High Deductible plans. You can build up a savings and money is donated each year, but if something big happens, you can face some serious out of pocket expenses.

My son is 9 months old, my out of pocket expense for him was roughly $1000, a bit more thanks to good health insurance. If he was born the year before, it would have only been $500 out of pocket. If I were to have him now...in 2012, the out of pocket is now $2000. That is with the same health insurance, same plan, although higher premiums. The cost charged by the hospital was $14,000. nothing special, no complications, just regular child birth.

I can't see how in just over 2 years, the price to have a kid quadruples....other than the fact than obamacare was passed. My parents, 27 years ago when I was born paid $250. so in 26 years, the cost doubled. then all of a sudden it quadruples in a very short time? uh yeah...something is fucked up there.


So, while the article sounds great, and hopefully the plan is to rid the country of obama for good...and I hope Romney stays true to his word to repeal all of this...and I am more than willing to give him his chance, I still don't support Roberts decision. I feel it would have been better to uproot the whole thing and rid the law books of it completely.

[Irving]

Our daughter was born in 2007 and just her being born cost $5,000 if I remember correctly. That was on a high deductible plan because no one was expecting to become pregnant.

[sniper7]

Our daughter was born in 2007 and just her being born cost $5,000 if I remember correctly. That was on a high deductible plan because no one was expecting to become pregnant.

It all depends on the plan. there is an option for a high deductible plan and that would cost $5000 out of pocket right now. My problem is the amount that health costs have gone up since obama got it....and when you think about it, most everything. gas, food, healthcare

[Irving]

I'm saying that if our kid cost $5,000 back in 2007 when things were relatively cheap, I expect it to be even more now and in the future, especially since more and more health care plans are high deductible. The plans have also gotten worse at the same time as costing more. This really sucks so far.

[Rucker61]

It all depends on the plan. there is an option for a high deductible plan and that would cost $5000 out of pocket right now. My problem is the amount that health costs have gone up since obama got it....and when you think about it, most everything. gas, food, healthcare

You don't think that worldwide economic crisis that started in 2007 and continues today had anything to do with rising costs, do you? It's all Obama's fault?

[Bailey Guns]

I still haven't had time to read enough to understand the full impact of this ruling.

My initial reaction was "WTF was Roberts thinking?". And anger...especially at Roberts.

But...the more I think about it the more I'm wondering (like the article Irving linked to) if Roberts ruling wasn't actually a really smart decision.

I see upsides to the decision as well as downsides. The downsides appear to be short-term. The upsides appear to be more long-term. Have to wait and see.

But I'm not jumping on the "this is the end of the Republic as we know it" bandwagon.

I think this quote from Roberts really sums up the entire situation:


Roberts went on to say the court's role is to interpret the law, not make policy judgments which is for lawmakers "who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."Remember that in November. Consider the long-term impact of your choice...not just the short-term "feel-good" impact of your choice.

[clublights]

Jacked from a blog I read daily

ex-.mil gunny and a pretty smart guy it seems over all

http://oldnfo.blogspot.com/



A different "take" on the SCOTUS decision...
Had 'quite' a discussion on this at the meeting this morning, and here's a bit of a different take proposed...


I actually tend to believe this IS the longer term goal of SCOTUS, and that is to put this back in front of the voters...



Before you look to do harm to Chief Justice Roberts or his family, it’s important that you think carefully about the meaning – the true nature — of his ruling on Obama-care. The Left will shout that they won, that Obama-care was upheld and all the rest. Let them.

It will be a short-lived celebration.

Here’s what really occurred — payback. Yes, payback for Obama’s numerous, ill-advised and childish insults directed toward SCOTUS.

Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional. That’s how the Democrats got Obama-care going in the first place. This is critical. His ruling means Congress can’t compel American citizens to purchase anything. Ever. The notion is now officially and forever, unconstitutional. As it should be.

e.g. Commerce Clause is NOT applicable!

Next, he stated that, because Congress doesn’t have the ability to mandate, it must, to fund Obama-care, rely on its power to tax. Therefore, the mechanism that funds Obama-care is a tax. This is also critical. Recall back during the initial Obama-care battles, the Democrats called it a penalty, Republicans called it a tax. Democrats consistently soft sold it as a penalty. It went to vote as a penalty. Obama declared endlessly, that it was not a tax, it was a penalty. But when the Democrats argued in front of the Supreme Court, they said ‘hey, a penalty or a tax, either way’. So, Roberts gave them a tax. It is now the official law of the land — beyond word-play and silly shenanigans. Obama-care is funded by tax dollars. Democrats now must defend a tax increase to justify the Obama-care law.

It WAS and IS a Tax, plain and simple! And the true cost is going to be HIGH!!! There is some BS out there that it will 'only' cost $95/person/year... Yeah, right... MY employer provided insurance (which is good world wide) is $700/mo. $95/yr ain't gettin there...

And what about the 47% that DON'T pay taxes? Who's going to pay 'their' $95???
Finally, he struck down as unconstitutional, the Obama-care idea that the federal government can bully states into complying by yanking their existing medicaid funding. Liberals, through Obama-care, basically said to the states — ‘comply with Obama-care or we will stop existing funding.’ Roberts ruled that is a no-no. If a state takes the money, fine, the Feds can tell the state how to run a program, but if the state refuses money, the federal government can’t penalize the state by yanking other funding. Therefore, a state can decline to participate in Obama-care without penalty. This is obviously a serious problem. Are we going to have 10, 12, 25 states not participating in “national” health-care? Suddenly, it’s not national, is it?

Makes opt out a reality WITHOUT the administration being able to penalize them!!!

Ultimately, Roberts supported states rights by limiting the federal government’s coercive abilities. He ruled that the government can not force the people to purchase products or services under the commerce clause and he forced liberals to have to come clean and admit that Obama-care is funded by tax increases.

Although he didn’t guarantee Romney a win, he certainly did more than his part and should be applauded.

Hopefully!

And he did this without creating a civil war or having bricks thrown threw his windshield. Oh, and he’ll be home in time for dinner.

Brilliant.

Yep! :-)

[BPTactical]

I still haven't had time to read enough to understand the full impact of this ruling.

My initial reaction was "WTF was Roberts thinking?". And anger...especially at Roberts.

But...the more I think about it the more I'm wondering (like the article Irving linked to) if Roberts ruling wasn't actually a really smart decision.

I see upsides to the decision as well as downsides. The downsides appear to be short-term. The upsides appear to be more long-term. Have to wait and see.

But I'm not jumping on the "this is the end of the Republic as we know it" bandwagon.

I think this quote from Roberts really sums up the entire situation:

Remember that in November. Consider the long-term impact of your choice...not just the short-term "feel-good" impact of your choice.

Yup.
I think you could see in Obammy's face yesterday morning he knows it is a shallow win.
He crapped on the SCOTUS twice. I don't see them as being too forgiving or forgetful of that fact.
Again let's not forget the fact that 70% of the population opposed Obamacare. As long as Romney plays his cards cool this decision will have a way of swinging a bunch of undecided voters against Obama.

Yesterday may in fact could have been a fatal day to O's re-election chances between this ruling and EH being held in contempt.

[Rucker61]

Yup.
I think you could see in Obammy's face yesterday morning he knows it is a shallow win.
He crapped on the SCOTUS twice. I don't see them as being too forgiving or forgetful of that fact.
Again let's not forget the fact that 70% of the population opposed Obamacare. As long as Romney plays his cards cool this decision will have a way of swinging a bunch of undecided voters against Obama.

Yesterday may in fact could have been a fatal day to O's re-election chances between this ruling and EH being held in contempt.

Obamacare will be an issue in the re-election, but it isn't the only issue or perhaps not even the main issue for the swing voters. A candidate needs to capture a rough majority of that middle 20%. And the American public is pretty damn fickle to begin with. I'm sure that Obamacare will be a large campaign issue, but that doesn't necessarily make it important to the voters. I expect the spin will be a large part of both parties' platforms, for sure.

The contempt issue could play a large part in the re-election, but voters might also remember that were also pretty contemptuous of Congressional requests and consider this tit for tat, or more jadely just the way things work now in the Beltway. More's the pity in either case.

[Jer]

Not sure what's worse, the fact that the SCOTUS screwed The People over or the irresponsibility demonstrated once again by the media. Who am I kidding.. it's the former of those and it's not even close. Study Europe's economy because that's where we're headed folks!