View Full Version : Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional
http://www.scotusblog.com/2012/06/court-holds-stolen-valor-act-unconstitutional-dismisses-first-american-financial-v-edwards/
[Rant1]
bobbyfairbanks
06-28-2012, 11:48
Waste of my tax payer money to put a faker in jail for a year. Let them lie and they will continue to get caught and look foolish.
Waste of my tax payer money to put a faker in jail for a year. Let them lie and they will continue to get caught and look foolish.
Oh really? Of all the ways that your taxpayer money gets wasted, that would not be one of them.
HBARleatherneck
06-28-2012, 12:29
There could just be an official squad the beats them within an inch of their miserable, lying lives. no jail, just a public, televised beating by the government goons.
Oh really? Of all the ways that your taxpayer money gets wasted, that would not be one of them.
While I think it's a cheap thing to do, nobody is harmed by someone pretending to be something they are not. There was no loss of life or property, and nobody was hurt by it. Why punish someone for acting like a retard in a nonviolent manner? And what does locking them up accomplish?
Oh really? Of all the ways that your taxpayer money gets wasted, that would not be one of them.
I agree... it reduces the validity of anything we actual veterans say. Now there could be a shadow of doubt on a lot of things and pretty much anyone can say "Yeah, I fought in Iraq and got a silver star." Unless said in an application there probably won't be a requirement for them to show their DD214. This was one of the few newer laws I actually supported. I'll stick kick a liar if I find out they didn't actually serve. [Rant1]
airborneranger
06-28-2012, 12:36
While I think it's a cheap thing to do, nobody is harmed by someone pretending to be something they are not. There was no loss of life or property, and nobody was hurt by it. Why punish someone for acting like a retard in a nonviolent manner? And what does locking them up accomplish?
Most of these guys are not only lying, they are receiving benefits from their lies. That is why they need to go to jail. We had a few here at Ft. Carson falsifying service to receive veteran benefits.
HBARleatherneck
06-28-2012, 12:38
its usually guys who didnt serve who object to this law. they didnt serve, so they dont feel the pride. they see it as just some job.
airborneranger
06-28-2012, 12:40
its usually guys who didnt serve who object to this law. they didnt serve, so they dont feel the pride. they see it as just some job.
I couldn't agree more with you.
its usually guys who didnt serve who object to this law. they didnt serve, so they dont feel the pride. they see it as just some job.
I'm curious to know how many SCOTUS justices are veterans... [Dunno]
while I think that people who lie about service are scum and should be kicked in the balls, they do so under the 1st amendment.... the very same 1st that you swore to defend.
HBARleatherneck
06-28-2012, 12:48
I'm curious to know how many SCOTUS justices are veterans... [Dunno]
on the scotus biography page, it doesnt list even one served. lawyers get out of things like service to country, duty, honor. they can just be born in to privileged (http://www.bing.com/search?q=privileged&FORM=AWRE) families, go to an expensive college, become a lawyer,get on the bench and then collect money until they die for legislating from the bench.
HBARleatherneck
06-28-2012, 12:50
Stevens was the last judge to have served in the military. none of the current judges ever served.
airborneranger
06-28-2012, 12:52
I'm curious to know how many SCOTUS justices are veterans... [Dunno]
I don't know. I did, however, go to Ranger School with Scalia's son - now an IN LTC.
Stevens was the last judge to have served in the military. none of the current judges ever served.
Well then does it come as a real surprise that they shot this act down? With this and Obamacare I pretty much have lost all hope in the SCOTUS... So uh guys, when are we going to be scheduling that Coup?
while I think that people who lie about service are scum and should be kicked in the balls, they do so under the 1st amendment.... the very same 1st that you swore to defend.
^This. The First Amendment lets you say whatever the hell you want, lie about anything, as long as it doesn't cause anybody harm or loss.
I'm curious to know how many SCOTUS justices are veterans... [Dunno]
while I think that people who lie about service are scum and should be kicked in the balls, they do so under the 1st amendment.... the very same 1st that you swore to defend.
So lying and benefitting from lies is ok?
So lying and benefitting from lies is ok?
It's politics in a nutshell.
ghettodub
06-28-2012, 12:57
There could just be an official squad the beats them within an inch of their miserable, lying lives. no jail, just a public, televised beating by the government goons.
I would support this.
^This. The First Amendment lets you say whatever the hell you want, lie about anything, as long as it doesn't cause anybody harm or loss.
In most cases that fell under Stolen Valor (and the several cases that prompted it's creation) there is harm and/or loss...
airborneranger
06-28-2012, 13:00
^This. The First Amendment lets you say whatever the hell you want, lie about anything, as long as it doesn't cause anybody harm or loss.
Again, the folks I have seen and interacted with who were lying about service were all receiving some sort of benefit = stealing.
Can I dress up as a police officer and just walk around, I mean first amendment right? Why am I typing this at school? I should just be able to lie about having my degree.
If a guy was just lying, it's stupid to throw him in jail. Those who think it is ok have seriously not thought it through. You would let the government punish people for a moral issue that doesn't hurt anyone... Do you see where all this can lead? Now, I understand if someone was lying and getting military benifits because of their lies, I would want them to go to jail as that is theft.
The part about >just< lying about serving and having that be a punishable crime is just stupid and asking for more government rule in the future.
buckeye4rnr
06-28-2012, 13:33
I’d rather have a slew of asshat military fakers than continue to see our constitutional rights taken away.
Can I dress up as a police officer and just walk around, I mean first amendment right? Why am I typing this at school? I should just be able to lie about having my degree.
It is different from a police officer as the military has no power over civilians in any way here.
Rucker61
06-28-2012, 13:34
There could just be an official squad the beats them within an inch of their miserable, lying lives. no jail, just a public, televised beating by real veteran volunteers.
Fixed it for you.
Scanker19
06-28-2012, 13:36
while I think that people who lie about service are scum and should be kicked in the balls, they do so under the 1st amendment.... the very same 1st that you swore to defend.
Freedom is having people disagree with you. I don't want the "freedom" where everyone is in agreement.
The Military defends the freedom of lairs, flag burners, KKK, Neo Nazi, grandma, protesting the health care bill, protesting the SCOTUS, Protesting, this website, this discussion. It's a Thankless job by many people, but no one made you sign up, unless you were drafted.
We always say if they ban Saiga 12s then moss bergs with shoulder things that go up are next. Then O/Us, then this. This is the same concept but with the first.
There are laws in place about benefitting from false service.
If you're that insecure about your service that you get mad when someone says they did something they didn't you need to take a good look at yourself.
Are posers losers, lairs, and douch nozzles? Yes, but that's their right, until they use it to steal.
Again, the folks I have seen and interacted with who were lying about service were all receiving some sort of benefit = stealing.
If only they could pass a law that made stealing illegal.
It is different from a police officer as the military has no power over civilians in any way here.
It is not. It is perfectly legal to dress up as a police officer and go about my business. If you run for office and claim to have won the medal of honor, did that claim influence people to vote for you? If you won can the argument then be made that your lies directly benefited you? That is exactly what Xavier Alvarez did. If I was in a job interview and I have valor awards on my resume, could I be considered for a job above other people because of it? If I said I was a Navy SeAL and then got stuff for free because of it, it that also ok? The thought that this is a victim less crime is foolish. The notion that I am mad about stolen valor because of my lack of military medals is also a foolish one.
So tonight maybe I should go down the the fire line in Colorado Springs dressed in my firefighting best. As long as I don't claim to be a firefighter then it is perfectly Ok. I can answer peoples questions, look official, maybe even make it on the news. In the world that you people want then that is perfectly acceptable.
So would you rather everyone get arrested brim every Halloween?
Should parents who dress up like Santa Claus get arrested and put in prison?
How about actors filming a movie?
Scanker19
06-28-2012, 14:02
It is not. It is perfectly legal to dress up as a police officer and go about my business. If you run for office and claim to have won the medal of honor, did that claim influence people to vote for you? If you won can the argument then be made that your lies directly benefited you? That is exactly what Xavier Alvarez did. If I was in a job interview and I have valor awards on my resume, could I be considered for a job above other people because of it? If I said I was a Navy SeAL and then got stuff for free because of it, it that also ok? The thought that this is a victim less crime is foolish. The notion that I am mad about stolen valor because of my lack of military medals is also a foolish one.
Its not victimless if they steal no one is arguing that. There are laws in place for that.
So tonight maybe I should go down the the fire line in Colorado Springs dressed in my firefighting best. As long as I don't claim to be a firefighter then it is perfectly Ok. I can answer peoples questions, look official, maybe even make it on the news. In the world that you people want then that is perfectly acceptable.
That's not the same as saying months from now, "I was there fighting fires." Unless you're applying for a job with the FD.
It is not. It is perfectly legal to dress up as a police officer and go about my business. If you run for office and claim to have won the medal of honor, did that claim influence people to vote for you? If you won can the argument then be made that your lies directly benefited you? That is exactly what Xavier Alvarez did. If I was in a job interview and I have valor awards on my resume, could I be considered for a job above other people because of it? If I said I was a Navy SeAL and then got stuff for free because of it, it that also ok? The thought that this is a victim less crime is foolish. The notion that I am mad about stolen valor because of my lack of military medals is also a foolish one.
So tonight maybe I should go down the the fire line in Colorado Springs dressed in my firefighting best. As long as I don't claim to be a firefighter then it is perfectly Ok. I can answer peoples questions, look official, maybe even make it on the news. In the world that you people want then that is perfectly acceptable.
You apparently didn't read my quote very well where I said it is different because military personnel do not have any power in the civilian world where a cop does. It's different.
Now would it be right of you to pretend to be a firefighter to get some kind of recognition? No. Should lying be illegal if it doesn't hurt anyone? No. Now the moment that it gets into legal ground and starts hurting/defrauding someone else, yes, it should be illegal.
I guess however "in the world that you want", the government should be able to tell us what is moral and what isn't, and be able to punish us as it sees fit. Maybe in your world, they can make it illegal to cut in lines, or, chew with your mouth open in public... that's just annoying...
Besides, impersonating a cop or other position of authority is already illegal at the local level.
Scanker19
06-28-2012, 14:19
I guess however "in the world that you want", the government should be able to tell us what is moral and what isn't, and be able to punish us as it sees fit.
No, only for the Military since they are some sort of protected class.
Besides, impersonating a cop or other position of authority is already illegal at the local level.
It's only illegal if I claim to be a cop. Looking like one is perfectly ok.
You apparently didn't read my quote very well where I said it is different because military personnel do not have any power in the civilian world where a cop does. It's different.
Now would it be right of you to pretend to be a firefighter to get some kind of recognition? No. Should lying be illegal if it doesn't hurt anyone? No. Now the moment that it gets into legal ground and starts hurting/defrauding someone else, yes, it should be illegal.
I guess however "in the world that you want", the government should be able to tell us what is moral and what isn't, and be able to punish us as it sees fit. Maybe in your world, they can make it illegal to cut in lines, or, chew with your mouth open in public... that's just annoying...
But defrauding people for benefits is indeed what is happening. If it truly is a victim less crime than why is it so easy to find people benefiting from the lies they spread about their "service".
If you put that you were in the military on a job application, it is illegal I'm pretty sure also as it is fraud. I'm just arguing that the guy in a bar saying he was in the military is just a dumb ass, and no, that kind of stupid shit should not be punishable by law. If you are getting something legal out of your lies, I say that they should be punished. Again though, the loser that poses as military personel past or present just to look cool, is just a loser doing nothing illegal, unless you make being too much of a loser illegal.... I might go for that though.... [Tooth] J/K
I'm going to go with it not being illegal as far as the military folk being pissed about it yeah you probably should be. I certainly would be. On the flip side of the coin I know a couple of fellas I went to school with who served during peace time but since it has become a "thing" they happily lie like hell about their service which now includes a liberal dose of combat experience because it gets them free drinks and laid. IMHO they are every bit as bad seeing as what they do cheapens what are actual combat vets have been through. Another example actually comes from my high school days when one of our local LEOs who was also retired military pistol whipped his wife into the ICU when she caught him cheating and wanted a divorce. He disgraced 2 uniforms and got paid leave for it. Shouldnt both of those examples also merit a beat down?
Just tossing a little devils advocate out there.
As always to our actual vets and everyone still serving you have my thanks after all since 1775 you folks have made and kept us free to have these very discussions.
If you put that you were in the military on a job application, it is illegal I'm pretty sure also as it is fraud. I'm just arguing that the guy in a bar saying he was in the military is just a dumb ass, and no, that kind of stupid shit should not be punishable by law. If you are getting something legal out of your lies, I say that they should be punished. Again though, the loser that poses as military personel past or present just to look cool, is just a loser doing nothing illegal, unless you make being too much of a loser illegal.... I might go for that though.... [Tooth] J/K
I agree with you on the situation posted, but again the reality of this is people are benefiting from it.
Rucker61
06-28-2012, 14:42
It's only illegal if I claim to be a cop. Looking like one is perfectly ok.
Unless you're accompanied by a construction worker, Indian chief, cowboy and soldier. Then it's fabulous.
I have a hard hat..........just sayin.
Unless you're accompanied by a construction worker, Indian chief, cowboy and soldier. Then it's fabulous.
[ROFL2][ROFL1]
While I think it's a cheap thing to do, nobody is harmed by someone pretending to be something they are not. There was no loss of life or property, and nobody was hurt by it. Why punish someone for acting like a retard in a nonviolent manner? And what does locking them up accomplish?
I tend to agree with this. While I think it's disgusting I think we have far too many laws as it is and one less is alright by me... even if I support the spirit of the law itself. Sometimes we just need to take a step back and let the asshats weed themselves out, even if it is only morally. IMO the SCOTUS has more important things to worry about and other things such as this are clearly distracting them from making the right decision on more important topics.
If pretending to be in the military was a crime I would be tempted to support it if for no other reason than getting some of the Hollywood anti-gun Libs off the streets. I happen to know for a fact that more than one of the Hollywood antigun crowd have been actually captured on film impersonating military or law enforcement personnel. The list is long but I would like to see at least some of them off the streets, Matt Damon, Mark Wahlberg, George Clooney, Kevin Bacon, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone just to name a few. Talk about ill gotten gains, how about the amount of money these people have made from impersonations. OK, Maybe that's a little extreme, but if we are going to have laws wouldn't it be great to use them to some advantage. I think that all military vets should be pissed that anybody is trying to act like they have been where you have been, but we've all seen where the camels nose under the tent can lead. I say be proud of your accomplishments and whenever possible vote with your dollars.
I agree with those who say jail time for these idiots is a bit much. Sure I hope karma bites them in the ass but if we worried about everything a person does people literally wouldn't be legally allowed to breath. I get what the vets are saying but every peoPle group has something that really chaps their hide and we can't just make all those things punishable by jail time. Now for those who get benefits by faking it they should fall under felony forgery in my opinion as should (and maybe they do) Medicare and Medicaid frauds. Frankly if a guy is walking around declaring his service exploits and awards he likely isn't a real vet. Out of all the friends, family and acquaintances I have that are gets I've never known a single one to brag about what they did or were awarded.
I am really on the line on this issue. I would rather be given the freedom to recreate the famous deliverance scene to the perpetrators than have them arrested.
9gLN3QoN-q8
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Champe-headstone-210x300.jpg
This guy's obituary said he has 3 tours in Viet nam and was also a POW. The problem? He joined the Army in 1981. Buried in a veterans cemetery is this still an OK free speech issue?
I say dig his ass up and throw him out. If it makes some here feel better...go ahead and lock him up.[Coffee]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Champe-headstone-210x300.jpg
This guy's obituary said he has 3 tours in Viet nam and was also a POW. The problem? He joined the Army in 1981. Buried in a veterans cemetery is this still an OK free speech issue?
That seems like a pretty simple paperwork issue easily addressed by those deciding who gets to get buried at a veterans cemetery or not. Why do we need laws at the federal level for it? Would it have prevented this oversight in the example you cited? I don't see how.
Listen, we can give an example here and there that would make ANY law seem important. I was HORRIBLY inconvenienced to the tune of over a month, multiple trips to the DMV and an entire moth of lost income due to a new set of laws put into place regarding homemade trailers. The laws don't match up so you MUST get a special verification & inspection through CSP that not only cost more than a traditional VIN verification but the worst part is appointments with CSP are over a month out. No big deal, right? Wrong. Temp tags are only good for a few days. So there is no possible way to pull a trailer on the streets. I was informed this at the begging of a month in which I do 90% of my aerations. When I asked what the reasoning was I was given some sob story of a beautiful teenage girl who was killed on I25 because someone's homemade trailer fell apart at highway speeds and a bar came through her windshield killing her.
My first thought was: So what? Sounds like she was following too closely. My second thought was: What kind of a country have we become where we have to pass law after law because of a couple isolated incidents? Giving our liberties that veterans fight for away with each stroke of the pen. People say 'Well, I think we have too many laws already' until it's a new law that THEY find fits their own personal beliefs. Enough is enough. Draw the line. Just because you don't support a law doesn't mean you're a hater of whomever it was going to support. Most of these situations are far more complex than that. I'm sure those real veterans who fought for our freedom that are laid to rest next to him would feel that our freedom is an important thing and laws stripping us of our freedoms shouldn't be taken lightly. That's not to say someone has the RIGHT to do such dastardly things as an exercise of their right to free speech because I don't think it should be protected as such. At the same time, that doesn't mean that I think there should be a law at the federal level outlawing every single damn thing that isn't expressly protected in our civil rights. Sometimes things should just be common sense.
I'd like to see such people get the shit kicked out of them. I also think there are some jerks in life who should get the shit kicked out of them for just being jerks but that doesn't mean we need laws at the federal level for each of the things they do that makes them assholes.
I say dig his ass up and throw him out. If it makes some here feel better...go ahead and lock him up.[Coffee]
There you go. Problem solved. No need for the federal government to waste millions of our dollars to make such decisions and go after the few 'boogey men' perpetrating these acts. No need for federal bureaucracy to deal with something that appears pretty to those with common sense simple to address. Sometimes the easiest solution is the best.
Scanker19
07-02-2012, 17:17
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Champe-headstone-210x300.jpg
This guy's obituary said he has 3 tours in Viet nam and was also a POW. The problem? He joined the Army in 1981. Buried in a veterans cemetery is this still an OK free speech issue?
That Precludes him how? Army=vet Maybe not a combat vet, but he is a veteran.
If you lie about anything else to get something. Say MONEY or BENEFITS. then that is not free speech but fraud. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT. Sitting in a bar tell some fish story about combat in Iraq is Douchbaggery not a CRIME. People who serve in Iraq to this all the time, lie about what they did. Do I need to get the crayons to illustrate this point?
That Precludes him how? Army=vet Maybe not a combat vet, but he is a veteran.
If you lie about anything else to get something. Say MONEY or BENEFITS. then that is not free speech but fraud. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT. Sitting in a bar tell some fish story about combat in Iraq is Douchbaggery not a CRIME. People who serve in Iraq to this all the time, lie about what they did. Do I need to get the crayons to illustrate this point?
Uhhhh maybe because he wasn't in Viet Nam?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Champe-headstone-210x300.jpg
This guy's obituary said he has 3 tours in Viet nam and was also a POW. The problem? He joined the Army in 1981. Buried in a veterans cemetery is this still an OK free speech issue?
somewhat off topic at hand....but is he not a Veteran? He joined in 1981. I would think having served that he is allowed to be buried at a Veteran's cemetery.
Saying he is served 3 tours in Vietnam and was a POW makes him a shitbag but doesn't change that he was in the army
somewhat off topic at hand....but is he not a Veteran? He joined in 1981. I would think having served that he is allowed to be buried at a Veteran's cemetery.
Saying he is served 3 tours in Vietnam and was a POW makes him a shitbag but doesn't change that he was in the army
It's written on his tombstone! A VA paid for tombstone I might add.
It's written on his tombstone! A VA paid for tombstone I might add.
lol
So he's a veteran but you're still upset that the VA buried him in a veterans cemetery and paid for his headstone?
HE'S A VETERAN!
(these aren't opinion or assumption on my part as they are both statements that YOU made)
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:34
These guys get weeded out quick and the punishment is usually bad.I'm tired of laws in general, we want less Government and then want them to drop everything for this?Oh there is nothing on that guys marker that says POW, so............But he is a Vet and deserves to be buried there.Most of the Vets out there today signed the paper took the oath.We don't desrve anything, we did what was right, by our own choices.If someone is trying to get benefits they don't deserve put them in jail.
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:35
lol
So he's a veteran but you're still upset that the VA buried him in a veterans cemetery and paid for his headstone?
HE'S A VETERAN!
(these aren't opinion or assumption on my part as they are both statements that YOU made)
I've been trying to order mine but they wont send it to me:)
HBARleatherneck
07-02-2012, 17:35
delete
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:38
if the VA was fooled into believing he was in Vietnam, maybe they were fooled and he never served at all. a DD214 is needed according to the VA website. So, either he had a faked 214, which was all fake, or he doctored it. so maybe he wasnt a vet at all. i am researching the name now.
Hurry i'm drunk[Coffee]
if the VA was fooled into believing he was in Vietnam, maybe they were fooled and he never served at all. a DD214 is needed according to the VA website. So, either he had a faked 214, which was all fake, or he doctored it. so maybe he wasnt a vet at all. i am researching the name now.
In which case he would be guilty of fraud which is already a law. Right? Forging documents is fraud. This example was presented as the guy shouldn't be buried there alongside other heroes when he is still a veteran. He may have embellished some of his war stories to someone but he's a veteran none-the-less. Without the hyperbole his post would have said 'This guy's headstone is inaccurate, we need a federal law!' and somehow doesn't have as much of a knee-jerk bite as the person posting was trying to get. Hell, I even fell for it before the details were pointed out.
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:42
In which case he would be guilty of fraud which is already a law. Right? Forging documents is fraud. This example was presented as the guy should be buried there alongside other heroes when he is still a veteran. Without the hyperbole his post would have said 'This guy's headstone is inaccurate, we need a federal law!' and somehow doesn't have as much knee-jerk bite.
True, but he's still a Vet(hopefully), the hero thing is dumb, because without support we are all just Tankers(Jordan):).Support troops are the backbone of the military.Sorry im drinking i think i agree with jer
True, but he's still a Vet(hopefully), the hero thing is dumb, because without support we are all just Tankers(Jordan):).Support troops are the backbone of the military.Sorry im drinking i think i agree with jer
I may need to drink too because it doesn't seem like you do based on what you've posted here. [LOL]
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:46
In which case he would be guilty of fraud which is already a law. Right? Forging documents is fraud. This example was presented as the guy shouldn't be buried there alongside other heroes when he is still a veteran. He may have embellished some of his war stories to someone but he's a veteran none-the-less. Without the hyperbole his post would have said 'This guy's headstone is inaccurate, we need a federal law!' and somehow doesn't have as much of a knee-jerk bite as the person posting was trying to get. Hell, I even fell for it before the details were pointed out.
Yes, Vet's are just new terrorists anyways:)
Yes, Vet's are just new terrorists anyways:)
Nobody is safe! [Help]
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 17:52
Nobody is safe! [Help]
HA, I will admit I am drinking.We don't need anymore new laws.You can burn the American flag?Its free speech.Oh I do think we need seperate cemetarys for Tankers, just because.I why do we get worked up over dumb shit?
I think all the enlisted guys should get a go at beating the shit out of the fakes. no new laws and the posers get their punishment. problem solved
brokenscout
07-02-2012, 18:03
I think all the enlisted guys should get a go at beating the shit out of the fakes. no new laws and the posers get their punishment. problem solved
I think they are fair game.But is it any worse than having a President thats not a citizen:)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Champe-headstone-210x300.jpg
This guy's obituary said he has 3 tours in Viet nam and was also a POW. The problem? He joined the Army in 1981. Buried in a veterans cemetery is this still an OK free speech issue?
He was buried in a veterans cemetery because he was a vet. What they should do at this point is carve "lied about" in front of "vietnam".
He was buried in a veterans cemetery because he was a vet. What they should do at this point is carve "lied about" in front of "vietnam".
I sure hope they don't carve my life's mistakes on my headstone or it will have to be the size of the Empire State Building. [Tooth]
Sharpienads
07-02-2012, 19:34
I don't really have anything new to add.
Lying doesn't make you a criminal. It makes you a douche.
Committing fraud makes you a criminal. Already laws in place for that.
Scanker19
07-02-2012, 22:21
Where did you find that he didn't join until 1980. Maybe he had a break in serivice. We need to dig him up and lock him away for lying.
The military is not a protected class In America. If you feel they are, or some how entitled to more than the average person for following through with their obligations then you need to take a long hard look at what it is to be an American. Talk about an entitledment society. " (whaaa!) I don't get paid much" well you should have checked the pay chart before signing up. SINCE NO BODY FUCKING MADE you!
We need to outlaw guns since people will often lie and do straw purchases to get them illegally.
Then ban those kids army clothes they sell at AAFES so kids don't steal valor.
airborneranger
07-02-2012, 22:49
There are some national cemeteries that have very strict rules for burial - i.e. combat service. I have no idea if this is one of those cases. If you lie about military service to gain some sort of benefit then you should be punished. If you do it for your ego or whatever, then you are just a douche bag who needs to be beat.
There are some national cemeteries that have very strict rules for burial - i.e. combat service. I have no idea if this is one of those cases. If you lie about military service to gain some sort of benefit then you should be punished. If you do it for your ego or whatever, then you are just a douche bag who needs to be beat.
They just need to have their shit pushed in. [Help]
Where did you find that he didn't join until 1980. Maybe he had a break in serivice. We need to dig him up and lock him away for lying.
The military is not a protected class In America. If you feel they are, or some how entitled to more than the average person for following through with their obligations then you need to take a long hard look at what it is to be an American. Talk about an entitledment society. " (whaaa!) I don't get paid much" well you should have checked the pay chart before signing up. SINCE NO BODY FUCKING MADE you!
We need to outlaw guns since people will often lie and do straw purchases to get them illegally.
Then ban those kids army clothes they sell at AAFES so kids don't steal valor.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v20/nailbomb/Gary-Champe-2-1.jpg
No break in service
bellavite1
07-03-2012, 11:53
What a sad story...
Nothing is sacred anymore (yeah, I know, imagine me saying that, right?).
I never served but I have the most respect for those who did and those who do.
I feel that those who are caught lying should be sent to the front line and used as sandbags.
Maybe that would give them some appreciation.
The military is not a protected class In America. If you feel they are, or some how entitled to more than the average person for following through with their obligations then you need to take a long hard look at what it is to be an American. Talk about an entitledment society. " (whaaa!) I don't get paid much" well you should have checked the pay chart before signing up. SINCE NO BODY FUCKING MADE you!
Not entitled to any more than the average person, EXCEPT that if the military does mess us up they are obligated to fix us (same concept as Worker's Compensation). No joins the military to get rich, that's stupidity there, but when I can work a job in the military for $1200/month, then get out and go back to Afghanistan as a civilian and make $10,000/month, I see a bit of a discrepancy there.
I guess you're one of those people who doesn't think of our troops as heroes and doesn't realize or even appreciate the sacrifice despite the fact that it's an all volunteer force... Tomorrow you can go hop on the plane with Obama and head to France if you really feel that way, I'm gonna go do something American, like pat my friends at Ft. Carson on the back and thank them for continuing the job that I was unable to do longer than 4 years...
Sharpienads
07-03-2012, 12:07
Then ban those kids army clothes they sell at AAFES so kids don't steal valor.
That made me laugh.
airborneranger
07-03-2012, 12:14
I guess you're one of those people who doesn't think of our troops as heroes and doesn't realize or even appreciate the sacrifice despite the fact that it's an all volunteer force... Tomorrow you can go hop on the plane with Obama and head to France if you really feel that way, I'm gonna go do something American, like pat my friends at Ft. Carson on the back and thank them for continuing the job that I was unable to do longer than 4 years...
He is a combat vet from 4ID - just FYI
He is a combat vet from 4ID - just FYI
Oh well my mistake then, sure didn't sound like it... I guess not everyone is beaming with pride from serving... That's the thing about perception, you can get someone wrong from one comment.
Sharpienads
07-03-2012, 12:26
The military is not a protected class In America. If you feel they are, or some how entitled to more than the average person for following through with their obligations then you need to take a long hard look at what it is to be an American. Talk about an entitledment society. " (whaaa!) I don't get paid much" well you should have checked the pay chart before signing up. SINCE NO BODY FUCKING MADE you!
Oh well my mistake then, sure didn't sound like it... I guess not everyone is beaming with pride from serving... That's the thing about perception, you can get someone wrong from one comment.
I'm not sure why you found what Jordan wrote offensive. I agree with him. I don't expect anything extra, and neither should you, IMHO.
I'm not sure why you found what Jordan wrote offensive. I agree with him. I don't expect anything extra, and neither should you, IMHO.
Oh I never do, I just expect people to recognize and respect the lifestyle and sacrifice that comes with serving, and to support our men and women in uniform. No special treatment, just don't spit on them, talk bad about them and think that they are the cause of the wars we're in. Politicians declare war, the troops are just the ones who fight it. [Beer]
Oh I never do, I just expect people to recognize and respect the lifestyle and sacrifice that comes with serving, and to support our men and women in uniform. No special treatment, just don't spit on them, talk bad about them and think that they are the cause of the wars we're in. Politicians declare war, the troops are just the ones who fight it. [Beer]
Laws that give employers benefit for hiring veterans and federal dollars advertising to hire a veteran and laws that make claiming to be a veteran feel an awful lot like special treatment. I know if it were me I wouldn't expect or even want to be given special treatment for my choice. I don't expect special treatment for any of my other choices in life so that's just me. It doesn't set well with me when I'm trying to find work and I see tax payer funded commercials telling prospective employers to not hire me by saying they should hire a veteran. There are also plenty of opportunities where you start off with a fairly sizable advantage just for being a veteran. I still show tons of respect to veterans and defend them anytime someone says something negative but I think we're getting dangerously close to making a protected class out of them and I'm not sure why.
HBARleatherneck
07-03-2012, 16:32
double post
HBARleatherneck
07-03-2012, 16:34
maybe people who dont serve, shouldnt be full citizens. you get all the benefits of citzenship, but did nothing to earn it, seems like special treatment.
i hate non vets.
Scanker19
07-03-2012, 16:39
maybe people who dont serve, shouldnt be full citizens. you get all the benefits of citzenship, but did nothing to earn it, seems like special treatment.
i hate non vets.
Yeah fuck the constitution!
HBARleatherneck
07-03-2012, 16:42
ok, how about an ammendment to the constitution. All able bodied American born males, will serve their country for a period or at least 2 years.
compulsory service.
i love the dumbasses who talk non stop about their rights, they think they are patriots for voting for ron paul. they wave a flag and they think they are patriots. put your money with your mouth is.
Scanker19
07-03-2012, 16:55
That doesn't sound like freedom at all. More like serivetude. Maybe if we would fight a war where our freedom was actually threatened a la WWII. How many wars have we fought for our "freedom" Korea? Vietnam? Gulf? OIF? Maybe OEF until it into rebuilding.
Soldiers make a choice to Join unless they were drafted. So the draft is what you are saying. Women should have to be drafted too. Nobody forced them to join they did so on their own free will. To me that doesn't warrant any special treat above and beyond their benefits they already get for their service.
i hate non vets.
You make that painfully obvious. You're better than everyone, we get it.
ok, how about an ammendment to the constitution. All able bodied American born males, will serve their country for a period or at least 2 years.
compulsory service.
i love the dumbasses who talk non stop about their rights, they think they are patriots for voting for ron paul. they wave a flag and they think they are patriots. put your money with your mouth is.
Now anyone who thinks their rights are important that hasn't served in the military is a dumbass? That's clever thinking right there.
That doesn't sound like freedom at all. More like serivetude. Maybe if we would fight a war where our freedom was actually threatened a la WWII. How many wars have we fought for our "freedom" Korea? Vietnam? Gulf? OIF? Maybe OEF until it into rebuilding.
Bingo! Just because I haven't supported ANY of the wars in my lifetime doesn't mean I don't love my country and wouldn't die for it. If we truly had a threat then it would be a different story. Let China or Iran or whoever decide they want to try to put a military on our soil and watch what all the 'dumbasses' as you call them do to defend this country. Playing world police isn't something I support and I personally happen to think we're currently doing more harm than good to our national security with what we're currently doing everywhere. So, in my own way, I AM doing my part for the country I love by NOT serving in the military even though I think I would do quite well. My political beliefs don't skew my support of our troops.
HBARleatherneck
07-03-2012, 17:41
so, less than 10% of the military is deployed to iraq/afghanistan. But, you couldnt serve you country because you dont agree with those wars? there were plenty of other place to serve,where you wouldnt be offended.
and then magically you will be prepared for war if we need you. there is much more to being a soldier than shooting an AR. much more. and much more than you will learn in a carbine class.
i never asked for anything extra for my service.
i was raised to believe a MAN would want to SERVE his COUNTRY.
a couple years out of your 80 years or so on the planet, as a thank you to all the country has given you. I believe that its right to serve. I guess you were raised differently.
airborneranger
07-03-2012, 17:44
maybe people who dont serve, shouldnt be full citizens. you get all the benefits of citzenship, but did nothing to earn it, seems like special treatment.
i hate non vets.
I love this guy!
Seriously, it is ok with the repeal of DADT.
[Beer]
so, less than 10% of the military is deployed to iraq/afghanistan. But, you couldnt serve you country because you dont agree with those wars? there were plenty of other place to serve,where you wouldnt be offended.
and then magically you will be prepared for war if we need you. there is much more to being a soldier than shooting an AR. much more. and much more than you will learn in a carbine class.
i never asked for anything extra for my service.
i was raised to believe a MAN would want to SERVE his COUNTRY.
a couple years out of your 80 years or so on the planet, as a thank you to all the country has given you. I believe that its right to serve. I guess you were raised differently.
Well good for you that you had loving parents who cared about you enough to teach you such things. Good for you that you chose to be in the military. None of that gives you the right to criticize everyone who doesn't make the exact same choices in life that you have. Last I heard you don't get to say where you go or what conflicts you fight in when you enlist. You keep acting like I can just sign up and then decide what I do, where I go and who I fight. That's not how it works. You of all people should know this.
Your shitty attitude towards those who didn't serve gives a bad names to those who did everywhere. I know lots.... LOTS of people who have either been in the military or currently in the military and NONE of them has your shitty outlook towards those who didn't. None. None of them think they're better than everyone else and none of them expect special treatment for what they've done. In fact, most would rather not even discuss what they've done or have it recognized as it makes them feel awkward. All they want is to do is get the job done, keep their brothers safe and then come home to be treated like anyone else. You clearly don't have that problem. In fact, your entitled attitude is the exact OPPOSITE of those who I respect and look up to and would do anything for who have served. I hate to say this but your attitude makes me not want to know anything more about you or what you've done because you just come off as a self righteous prick. If that's not who you are then you should choose what you say on this forum a little bit better because that's how you come off.
airborneranger
07-03-2012, 18:05
[Pop]
airborneranger
07-03-2012, 18:16
Let me take just a second to add my .02 to this discussion. It seems to have progressed from stolen valor to preferential treatment and such.
I have served for over 21 years as both and officer and enlisted. I joined-up when there was no war and not very many benefits for enlisting. Now, you have a 10 year old war and young men and women who continue to sign up for duty. The reasons for their service certainly varies: money, opportunity, the glory of combat, etc. The point is that they continue to serve our nation.
On this board, we have many current military, recently retired and old timers. I have respect for all. We also have many who can no longer serve to due to injuries and other issues: Brokenscout and Ronin13 just to name a few.
Do I want extra attention for my service? No. Most civilian folks who know me don't know what I do or where I have been. Do I think these young kids who continue to serve should receive some attention? Absolutely. There are many reasons not to serve (medical, financial, etc.) but these young kids continue to answer the call. Whatever your valid reason is for not serving, does not really matter because others have and will continue to do so. If I was hiring and I had the choice between a vet and non-vet, I would hire a the vet 100% of the time.
I personally thank this young generation of Soldiers every chance I get. I truly don't think I would have stayed 20 years if I was in the environment they are living.
I also thank those who support or Soldiers on this site and elsewhere.
Good day!
[Beer]
OK...I'll bite into this one.
People have been pretending to be veterans since the soldier was first needed. So F'ing what! People will continue to do it forever, whether it is illegal or not. If they are not stealing from it...who cares.
Those of us veterans know that those who talk the most are to be believed the least. Ie..the guy at the bar bragging to everyone about how he "was there" is usualy full of sh*t. This rule still applies. We understand what it means to be a quiet professional, we know how to spot who is one of us and who is a fake. There is no law against exposing and embarassing those sick individuals who pretend to be one of our brothers, should we be so compelled. I hate seeing some asshat pretend to be worthy of that uniform just as much as every other veteran. However, we have to get over it, we have to be the better person...a true warrior and sometimes just leave the idiots alone.
airborneranger
07-03-2012, 19:18
Like my mom told me when I was a kid: "Those who brag the most have the least to brag about." :)
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