Legalities of Bill of sale (non-firearm related), also small claims court ?'s

[sniper7]

If you buy a vehicle, sign a bill of sale stating as-is, but there are also requirements to be met (paperwork required by a certain date), and those requirements are not fulfilled, does the BOS become null and void?



concerning, small claims court, what is the process? How do you go about filing, sending the information to the other party, what is the max $$ limit and what are things to watch out for.

Basic story is I bought a vehicle with some requirements that needed to be met on the part of the seller. those requirements have not been met by the date agreed upon, no return communications.

[Sharpienads]

Disregard, I misread your post.

[spqrzilla]

Why are you confusing a contract and a bill of sale?

A contract is an agreement for the purchase of something. The bill of sale is basically the conveyance of title. The bill of sale should only be exchanged when all of the terms of the contract are met.

What you are describing is a contract.

Here is the rules for small claims:
http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=9

[Chad4000]

yeah small claims usually has the dollar amount capped at $5k..

so are you wanting to have the deal undone? or just want the seller to provide the paperwork? I assume the paperwork would have been the title...

[sniper7]

yeah small claims usually has the dollar amount capped at $5k..

so are you wanting to have the deal undone? or just want the seller to provide the paperwork? I assume the paperwork would have been the title...

I have the title. I was supposed to receive warranty paperwork yesterday. that day has come and gone. The part of the agreement was written down on the bill of sale, that the paperwork would be given to the buyer by that date.

There is also another piece of paper which IS a contract stating by yesterday, a decision would be made on 2 items that will have a dollar figure attached to them. The seller is supposed to provide the paperwork for one of the items which is under warranty and the other one he has a financial obligation to cover.

At this point, I want the deal undone and I am seeing if I have legal grounds to have him take back the vehicle. I know colorado is an "as-is" state which means the seller doesn't have to take it back, but since there was extra paperwork as part of the agreement which has not been fulfilled, I am curious to see if that would go above the "as-is" BOS.

[sniper7]

Why are you confusing a contract and a bill of sale?

A contract is an agreement for the purchase of something. The bill of sale is basically the conveyance of title. The bill of sale should only be exchanged when all of the terms of the contract are met.

What you are describing is a contract.

Here is the rules for small claims:
http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=9


I have both. 1 is a BOS with "as-is" on it. but it also has a requirement that the seller provide the buyer with warranty paperwork by a date which has come and gone.

On a second paper, which is a contract, the seller also has warranty and financial obligations which were to be met by a date which as come and gone.

at this point I do not want the vehicle and I want to seller to return the funds. title paperwork has not been filed yet so that is not an issue. and I didn't sign the title yet just in case something like this were to happen.

[SouthPaw]

IIRC Colorado is a "as-is" private sale on vehicles anyways whether you have a BOS or not.

[sniper7]

IIRC Colorado is a "as-is" private sale on vehicles anyways whether you have a BOS or not.

Yes that is true.

I would not argue the fact that the vehicle was purchased as-is.

What my issues are, will be the warranty claim when that is taken care of, and the monetary claim when that issued is corrected. The seller was supposed to provide the warranty paperwork and pay for the other mechanical issue that needed fixed. With no contact from him I can only assume he is trying to bail on it.

that is where small claims court comes in.

[SouthPaw]

Yes that is true.

I would not argue the fact that the vehicle was purchased as-is.

What my issues are, will be the warranty claim when that is taken care of, and the monetary claim when that issued is corrected. The seller was supposed to provide the warranty paperwork and pay for the other mechanical issue that needed fixed. With no contact from him I can only assume he is trying to bail on it.

that is where small claims court comes in.

I see your point. BOS has helped me out a few times at the clerk and recorder office so I am sure it has some legal stand. Hopefully it all works out for you and you can skip small claims court all together.

[spqrzilla]

I have both. 1 is a BOS with "as-is" on it. but it also has a requirement that the seller provide the buyer with warranty paperwork by a date which has come and gone.

On a second paper, which is a contract, the seller also has warranty and financial obligations which were to be met by a date which as come and gone.

at this point I do not want the vehicle and I want to seller to return the funds. title paperwork has not been filed yet so that is not an issue. and I didn't sign the title yet just in case something like this were to happen.
You may call the paper a "bill of sale" but you have created a contract. Two written contracts evidently, which may or may not contradict each other.

Your remedy may not be a recission of the contract at this point. Can't say without seeing the docs themselves.

[RCCrawler]

Is this from a private seller or a dealer?

[sniper7]

Is this from a private seller or a dealer?

private

[sniper7]

You may call the paper a "bill of sale" but you have created a contract. Two written contracts evidently, which may or may not contradict each other.

Your remedy may not be a recission of the contract at this point. Can't say without seeing the docs themselves.

I would be fine without the vehicle and start looking over again.

BOS has all the key points, names, addess, info, "as-is" on it, but also says "seller will provide copies of all repairs to buyer on or before June 28".

that is the part which has not been met. 3 items in particular which were listed with the company that did them have warranties associated with them. Without the paperwork I have no proof of warranty. One item under warranty is in need of a look at (power steering pump), but I have no paperwork for proof.

The other piece is a contract where the seller and buyer acknowledge the items that need repair (power steer pump) and a catalytic converter need replaced (passed emissions though and I have that paperwork).
Also gives a max dollar amount the seller will be responsible for.
This is also dated and says it is to be resolved by June 28, 2012.
Verbally we agreed to call shops and see where the best price would be. I fulfilled that, have the paperwork documenting it and recorded the messages I left on his phone regarding the potential costs. He told me he was also calling for quotes. I never received that info.

At this point I don't want to do anything and want to rid myself of the whole problem with recission and start over looking for a different vehicle.

[CO Hugh]

Short part is you file the suit in the County where the defendant lives. Limit is $7,500.00. Filing Fee about $100. The sheriff serves the defendant, most of them have forms online, they charge about $40 plus mileage. So if seller lives in Adams County you file at courthouse pay fees, then you take the summons and complaint to the Sheriff, you can mail it too, and they serve him. Look online or call the Sheriff and ask for the civil division. He has to receive it so many days before the court hearing so take a court day farther out.

It also helps to know if you know you can collect the money as suing poor people not so successful. Someone mentioned earlier the difference between the Bill of Sale and a Contract, and there is something to it. Generally any conditions must be in writing to be enforced. Usually when the sale is consummated the conditions are extinguished. Depending on how you wrote it, it may be enforceable.

I think most of the counties are now requiring mediation first, which is usually blah blah blah, you both will lose and split the difference. If you have all your evidence prepared don't budge, you may stand a better chance in court.

The main thing to remember is Judges don't like to judge, if they can find a way to make the result less harsh they will.