So what is so great about a FAL?

[Marine24]

So went to Patrick's to pick up my ammo and conversation naturally drifted to guns and ended up landing on FALs. Patrick was talking about some of his new projects and got an itch going that I now need to scratch.

I know what an FAL is and heard them described as an AK that shoots 7.62 NATO, but that is about the extent of my knowledge.

My upgraded LR-308 is my preferred 308 semi platform, but like I said, I got that itch.

Is it just because you can run anything and everything through an FAL?

What are the features/specs that distinguish a good one from a bad or exceptional one?

What is a DSA SA58? DSA's remake of the FAL?

[DeusExMachina]

See also: Right arm of the free world.

[Marine24]

True. I remember getting crap from my Brit and Aussie brethren when comparing their L1A1 with my "girlie" M16. Seemed to make the same comment when comparing our beers too.

[Wiggity]

What is so great about it?


Its Larry Vicker's second favorite rifle, that's whats so great about it

[Marine24]

See also: Right arm of the free world.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu64.htm

Interesting article. Gives the basic on the FAL and impressed with the simplicity of breaking it down.

[Marine24]

What is so great about it?


Its Larry Vicker's second favorite rifle, that's whats so great about it

True. He does prefer the FAL to the M1A or G3 in an all around battle rifle, even though the M14 can be tuned to be more accurate and the G3 is more rugged (his words). He also seems to be pretty high on DSA as well.

Always liked Jeff Cooper's quote of "The AK is the rifle for the masses and the FAL is the rifle for the classes".

So besides their endorsements, what features/specs separate the good from the bad?

I hear names like CETME, Imbel, Coonan, Century, DSA but not sure if they are all generally of the same quality or if some should be avoided.

What about the kits that are discussed? Article Deus pointed me to talked about Australian kits and made a distinction between hybrids vs mongrel FALs.

Not disparaging anyone's favorite rifle, but have an interest on doing a new build and looking for some info to make informed choices.

[Wiggity]

True. He does prefer the FAL to the M1A or G3 in an all around battle rifle, even though the M14 can be tuned to be more accurate and the G3 is more rugged (his words). He also seems to be pretty high on DSA as well.

Always liked Jeff Cooper's quote of "The AK is the rifle for the masses and the FAL is the rifle for the classes".

So besides their endorsements, what features/specs separate the good from the bad?

I hear names like CETME, Imbel, Coonan, Century, DSA but not sure if they are all generally of the same quality or if some should be avoided.

What about the kits that are discussed? Article Deus pointed me to talked about Australian kits and made a distinction between hybrids vs mongrel FALs.

Not disparaging anyone's favorite rifle, but have an interest on doing a new build and looking for some info to make informed choices.



In all honesty I know next to nothing about FAL's. Just that they are LV's second favorite rifle.

[Marine24]

That makes two of us. Now where are all those FAL experts?

Not sure if dropping $1500 on a DSA is appropriate or going with an Enterprise at just shy of $1000 or building it from parts.

[jerrymrc]

Too tired to write a book but let me try a few things. Fals come in two basic flavors. Inch and metric. I will not delve into the world of indian Fal's.

Some parts interchange, some do not. Within the metric family there are the type one,two and three. Except for the early stuff metric guns can be any mix and match ya want.

DSA can make a nice gun. DSA can also make a shitty one. There is NO set standard of what makes one Fal shoot good and one shoot bad. The Fal is not a large AK. The SKS however IS a small Fal.

For what it is the Fal earns good marks for ergo, reliability, ease of maintenance. It is also has the softest recoil of any .308 battle rifle when adjusted correctly.

I have not looked recently but DSA used to sell two kinds of rifles. One from mostly new parts (they are all new now since they got the bolt issue done) and a Kit rifle based on a STG58 kit with mostly surplus parts.

Kits. Inch kits are pretty rare these days. Century bought many of them back in the 90's.

Metric kits range from type ones (G-1/STG/Argie and some Rodie) to the Imbels that are type three. The best kits as to condition start with the STG then an Imbel, G-1 and last are the Rodies. Not to say there are not good and bad ones except for the STG's

Many more parts for the metric guns than the Inch ones. I will say this again. We know some things that cause the Fal to have issues in the accuracy dept but one can throw a bunch of $$ at one trying to make it a tack driver and it is not. There is no such thing as a 1MOA Fal. Some shoot and some do not. I myself have one that is very accurate. But then I built a few to get there.

I have built over 30 of them and fixed many more. Also helped many members build there own.

We used to build them for $350 I also have the lightest Fal on the planet that turns up all over the place. I also run Falfest down in Raton every year.[Coffee] http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac44/jerrymrc/toys/nextold-pics337.jpg

[splogan]

Jerry truly could write a novel on them. He built mine, which consequently is how we met and I married his step daughter thereafter. Anyhoooo

I am a M1A guy but my FAL is hard to beat. Once you get them running they are like an old tractor. They just plug away and are good work horses. I lucked out and my imbel is a good shooter. Mags are still somewhat cheap, but not as cheap as they once were. The new RRA .308 AR's use FAL mags. I have a G1 ready to build and a FAL in .45ACP using tommy gun mags. If you want light and something to hang tacticool crap on they are not it because they start off heavy, but for a good all around minute of bad guy battle rifle they are hard to beat.

[asmo]

1) Its a FAL
2) It shoots 7.62x51
3) Its a fuckin FAL
4) You can utterly beat the crap out of it and it will laugh at you
5) Its a FAL
6) It will eat anything you put into it
7) 4 gas positions is more than you will ever need
8) You can use it as a hammer
9) Its cheaper than a HK91
10) Integrated carry handles are sexxy
11) The charging handle is on the correct side
12) Having the bolt lock to the rear when you are empty == the only way to run

That's why a FAL..

[BPTactical]

Read what Jerry wrote.
You have been schooled.
But at the risk of irritating Jerry and he knows I love the FAL, I prefer my PTR.
Magazine cost is what really cinched it for me, I bought 90 brand new in wrap G3 mags for less than a dollar each.
You can't beat that.
Plus you just can't break a quality G3 clone.


Love ya Jerry[Tooth]

[splogan]

I wish I had picked up a g3 when they were cheap. I still have ~40mags and no gun.

[Marine24]

Too tired to write a book but let me try a few things. Fals come in two basic flavors. Inch and metric. I will not delve into the world of indian Fal's.

Some parts interchange, some do not. Within the metric family there are the type one,two and three. Except for the early stuff metric guns can be any mix and match ya want.

DSA can make a nice gun. DSA can also make a shitty one. There is NO set standard of what makes one Fal shoot good and one shoot bad. The Fal is not a large AK. The SKS however IS a small Fal.

For what it is the Fal earns good marks for ergo, reliability, ease of maintenance. It is also has the softest recoil of any .308 battle rifle when adjusted correctly.

I have not looked recently but DSA used to sell two kinds of rifles. One from mostly new parts (they are all new now since they got the bolt issue done) and a Kit rifle based on a STG58 kit with mostly surplus parts.

Kits. Inch kits are pretty rare these days. Century bought many of them back in the 90's.

Metric kits range from type ones (G-1/STG/Argie and some Rodie) to the Imbels that are type three. The best kits as to condition start with the STG then an Imbel, G-1 and last are the Rodies. Not to say there are not good and bad ones except for the STG's

Many more parts for the metric guns than the Inch ones. I will say this again. We know some things that cause the Fal to have issues in the accuracy dept but one can throw a bunch of $$ at one trying to make it a tack driver and it is not. There is no such thing as a 1MOA Fal. Some shoot and some do not. I myself have one that is very accurate. But then I built a few to get there.


Jerry: Appreciate you taking the time to provide the nuggets of wisdom. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

While a FAL won't typically achieve the accuracy I can from my LR-308, its reputation as a battle rifle can't be disputed.

At a minimum, I've got a punch list of things to be looking for. Interesting to see what is defined as a "Kit" for a FAL.

Any big differences in receivers? Imbel and Enterprise seem to be a couple that most folks speak highly of.

[DeusExMachina]

Whenever I think of a FAL, I have in the back of my mind a FAL that I think Cameron was selling. He posted a video of him shooting it during a 3gun match, and it was damn impressive.

Not the video I was thinking of, but still great: http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=34862&highlight=FAL

The youtube links are kind of messed up, but still work.

[splogan]

Imbels are type 3 receivers. They are good but hard to find and do not count as a US part. DSA makes a good type 1 receiver and it counts as a US part. The old coonan receivers were good but good luck finding one. I have not fondled an enterprise receiver. Steer clear of Hesse/ Vulcan.

[Marine24]

Did a quick search on different types of FAL receivers and seems the prevailing opinion that the differences are primarily cosmetic. Type 1s are lighter but Type 2s have increased strength due to suspected failures of Type 1 receivers during sustained full auto fire. Type 3s seems to be the budget version and lacks the internal sand debris cuts that the Type 1 and 2s have.

Reasonable understanding?

On a build, is one preferred over another?

[splogan]

I prefer the look of a type 1 over a type 3 because the way the cuts make it look and the weight savings. I used a type 1 upper on a type 3 lower and it was fine. Personal preference on appearance and if you are concerned with the correct type of receiver with your kit. The G1's and STG's use type 1's and Imbels use Type 3.

[Marine24]

Thanks SP. Your location looks familiar.

[jerrymrc]

Did a quick search on different types of FAL receivers and seems the prevailing opinion that the differences are primarily cosmetic. Type 1s are lighter but Type 2s have increased strength due to suspected failures of Type 1 receivers during sustained full auto fire. Type 3s seems to be the budget version and lacks the internal sand debris cuts that the Type 1 and 2s have.

Reasonable understanding?

On a build, is one preferred over another?

Correct. The inch guns also have sand cuts in the carrier and I run an inch bolt and carrier (and mag release) in my metric.
But at the risk of irritating Jerry and he knows I love the FAL, I prefer my PTR.In many ways I do understand. You put a regular Fal and a regular G3 on a rack and ask me to pick the one to shoot a good group with and I will take the G3.

That said I like where all the controls are and am very comfortable with a Fal but then I have been shooting them since 1982 when I got my German marksmanship badge. [Flower]

And Splogan has been typing while I changed the water pump on my Grand Prix. He is just about to go back to Japan to finish the tour.[Coffee]
If you would like to shoot one Marine24 just ask. ;)

[Marine24]

Jerry: Appreciate the rudder and offer. As you stated previously, there is no set standard on what makes one shoot good and another bad, but sounds like an interesting project.

[enthusiast]

Not trying to threadjack. Is this a good deal / model?

Cetme Sporter Rifle .308 cal Semi-Auto G3
http://www.classicfirearms.com/cetmerifle

[Jamesonehr]

One isn't a fal. CETME is just the original version of the eventual h&k g3. Anyways, my favorite rifle and one of the only ones that almost always makes it to the range is my fal. Feels good and never fails to go boom. Just need to rebuild some mags.

[Troublco]

There's just something about FAL's. I've been an M1/M1A guy for years, but after I picked up a FAL Para I just had to have one. My FAL is basically a DSA Standard Para, with a bipod, horizontal locking lever, and extended selector lever. Seems to me to be about the perfect FAL. Still may have to pick up an STG-58 if I run across one for the right price, though...

[buckshotbarlow]

watch out though, fals breed in gun safes...G3's don't.

[zzzippper]

Yes, very easy to break down but if you're not careful the bolt can fall right out of the rifle. I'd hate to do that into mud in the field. I don't like the adjustable gas port depending on ammo, though some see it as a plus. My M1A eats all ammo like it is Pez candy.

[jerrymrc]

Yes, very easy to break down but if you're not careful the bolt can fall right out of the rifle. I'd hate to do that into mud in the field. I don't like the adjustable gas port depending on ammo, though some see it as a plus. My M1A eats all ammo like it is Pez candy.

I guess if your holding it straight up it could but if you do it as the book calls for it will not. Kind of like saying "If you open your beer upside down it will run out and I don't like that"

As to the adjustable gas system. One can set it on 1 or 2 and then you would never have to touch it again and it would eat any ammo you feed it.
But for those that want the adjustability it allows one to make the rifle shoot like a pussycat with any load.

Just a thought. [Flower]