Help me, Im from Florida :) (Gunsmith School Related)

[GatorBait]

Hello AR-15.co,

My name is Thomas, and I currently reside in sunny South Florida. Some might think that is fine and dandy, which for some it may be. However for me it is not.

I just started looking into Trinidad State Junior College's gunsmithing program that they have. However for this to be a realistic possibility for me I would need to be able to find work so I could pay rent, and live off of.

Normally I would attempt to live on campus and try to get it paid for with financial aide. However I am 23 years old and I have been in a relationship for the past 7 years and lived with my girlfriend for the past 5 1/2. So as you can see us not living together is not an option. Not to mention my dog Dixi, shes not going anywhere either.

I have been working security here in florida the past 2 1/2 years and I am ready to further my education and find a career. Basically I am hoping to find advice from people who have possibly gone to TSJC Gunsmithing, or possibly CSOT Gunsmithing who can tell me how much time the classes are going to occupy (would working and going to school be possible?). Also would finding a place to rent, and a job to provide money for rent, food, electric, ect. be possible or is the job market at a standstill? (i know the state of our economy and the unemployment rate im just wondering if it is significantly worse in Co. then lets say Fl.

Any advice, and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Thomas D.

[Mazin]

Don't consider CSOT, TSJC IMHO is your best route. Better education and better rep. There are a lot to threads on both of those schools just search the forum and enjoy. Welcome!

[GatorBait]

Hey thanks buddy, however I did leave a few specific questions. I am 99% sure that TSJC is the school I would like to attend. Its just that I cannot live on campus and mainly needed to know about living expenses. Is it possible to find jobs right now that will provide rent money and other living expenses (girlfriend can get a job too to help me pay its not just me alone). Also does the schooling itself take up all of the time or does it leave time for a part timeish job.

[encorehunter]

Check with the school and see if you can get a workstudy job. They do have security guards on the campus now. I am not positive, but I think the hospital may be looking for a guard as well.
The schooling will take up a lot of your time. I know from past experience that you can not have a full time job and take the classes. The instructors would not allow me to do it.
There is one person on the forum that goes there, and I am sure he will chime in soon. There are not a ton of jobs in Trinidad, and I can tell you that the cost of living here is fairly expensive.

[Monky]

Yeah Gator talk to Spyder.. he just started at TSJC in August? or something last year.. He can tell you all about it. He moved his whole family to Trinidad.

I won't give you my impression and scare you away.

[SideShow Bob]

You can work as Spyder's assistant doing back alley sex change operations, he needs someone to sharpen the machette. And pick up afterwards.............[LOL]

[patrick0685]

Yeah Gator talk to Spyder.. he just started at TSJC in August? or something last year.. He can tell you all about it. He moved his whole family to Trinidad.

I won't give you my impression and scare you away.


You can work as Spyder's assistant doing back alley sex change operations, he needs someone to sharpen the machette. And pick up afterwards.............[LOL]

haha...yea spyder is the one you should really talk to, if you do end up there do not judge all of CO by Trinidad[Beer]

[BPTactical]

You can work as Spyder's assistant doing back alley sex change operations, he needs someone to sharpen the machette. And pick up afterwards.............[LOL]

Well, that 'splains SideShowBobs skills with a spoon and squeegee.....[Muaha]


I cannot attest to Trinidad but I can attest to going to school full-time and working full time.
You cannot gain the full benefit from school if you are dog ear tired and red-eyed from working all night.
The vast majority of people I know that tried ended up either failing or walking away from school.
If you are going to invest in school then you need to focus 100% on that. Otherwise you are cheating yourself.
An alternative-find a Smith that will let you help around the shop and maybe make a few bucks on a part time basis while you hold your full-time gig.
Decide if Smithing is really what you want to do.
Look for NRA sanctioned "specialty classes". Most are a week long and focus on one area like bolt action rifles or 1911's.

Old joke-how are a large Dominos pizza and a Gunsmith different? The pizza can feed a family of four.
Very difficult to make a full time living just on Smithing. Those that do either live in a trailer or have paid their dues for years and are specialists in a certain discipline, like Bill Laughridge of Cylinder and Slide fame.

[xring]

Its not a easy profession to be succesful in. You have to reallly really want it. Aptitude is huge. Have you ever ran a mill, a lathe? I have a friend who is a world class gunsmith. His criteria for selecting apprentices- those with hobbys that operate radio controled aircraft. He has found that that is the most effective criteria to establish aptitude. Drive is another thing.

You have to find your niche. You probably already have a idea what you want to do in the gun world ( I would hope). If you really want it that bad I would Find the best in the business knock on their door and say i want to work for you. Start vacuming chips and sweeping floors and you will learn a lot. As far as schools go Trinidad is top notch. Nowadays a piece of paper means nothing. The debt it costs to get it is real A gunsmithing degree is no exception in fact it is in my opinion one of the poorer places to blow your money. Its not a easy proffesion to maintain a girl on. For most it is far from lucrative for many many years. You work security, consider a law enforcement degree and the police acadamy- that will pay the bills! You can work towards a armourer if you choose. If you can cut it in south Florida LE you can work wherever you want.

[spyder]

Check with the school and see if you can get a workstudy job. They do have security guards on the campus now. I am not positive, but I think the hospital may be looking for a guard as well.
The schooling will take up a lot of your time. I know from past experience that you can not have a full time job and take the classes. The instructors would not allow me to do it.
There is one person on the forum that goes there, and I am sure he will chime in soon. There are not a ton of jobs in Trinidad, and I can tell you that the cost of living here is fairly expensive.
Hi Jo! The classes do not take up too much time, but only if you just take the basic's. Of course if you just take the basics, you are screwing yourself and your time down here.


You can work as Spyder's assistant doing back alley sex change operations, he needs someone to sharpen the machette. And pick up afterwards.............[LOL]
I've moved away from the machette.... It was just too big...


haha...yea spyder is the one you should really talk to, if you do end up there do not judge all of CO by Trinidad[Beer]
This town is definately different from anything you have probably delt with. You will have to get used to it quite a bit.

Well, that 'splains SideShowBobs skills with a spoon and squeegee.....[Muaha]


I cannot attest to Trinidad but I can attest to going to school full-time and working full time.
You cannot gain the full benefit from school if you are dog ear tired and red-eyed from working all night.
The vast majority of people I know that tried ended up either failing or walking away from school.
If you are going to invest in school then you need to focus 100% on that. Otherwise you are cheating yourself.
An alternative-find a Smith that will let you help around the shop and maybe make a few bucks on a part time basis while you hold your full-time gig.
Decide if Smithing is really what you want to do.
Look for NRA sanctioned "specialty classes". Most are a week long and focus on one area like bolt action rifles or 1911's.

Old joke-how are a large Dominos pizza and a Gunsmith different? The pizza can feed a family of four.
Very difficult to make a full time living just on Smithing. Those that do either live in a trailer or have paid their dues for years and are specialists in a certain discipline, like Bill Laughridge of Cylinder and Slide fame.
For a job, walmart is your best choice. You don't need much money, rent is pretty cheap here and everything is within walking distance except walmart, however safeway is in town. There are also some appartments right next to the college for $400 that will work for you three. The only problem with getting into TSJC is the test to see who the best qualified to get in is. There, from what I hear, is no waiting list anymore, you are now judged on a point scale basically and the highest scores get in first. If you do good here, you are pretty much guaranteed a job with one of the major manufacturers out there. Since I've been here, every single graduate had multiple job offers (again, that was average for the school, or better).

[Mtn.man]

I grew up in FL, sorry you are there. I got smart and moved story over.

[BushMasterBoy]

http://www.knightarmco.com/employment.html

[GatorBait]

XRing its funny you say that because I fly RC planes [Tooth]. I don't know how that would relate to gunsmithing aptitude but if it does I guess that's a good thing.

I understand gunsmithing isn't going to make bank, however my goal would be to eventually learn gunsmithing, take the 3rd year brownells program and learn how to run a Gun Shop basically fixing, customizing, and selling firearms.

So long term goal would be to not just smith but actually own and run a shop weather it be here in florida or in colorado.

From what I hear seems jobs are slim pickens however the rent is cheap. I would love to only focus 100% on school but how would I be able to pay rent, and feed myself while doing so without obtaining a job?

Spyder or anyone who may know, how do most students there survive? I would imagine most the students live on campus then. Is there any type of student loan any one knows about that would allow me to use the money to live off campus?

And lastly to be honest I have 0 experience with any machine tools, or gunsmithing in general. I own 3 guns (Sar-1, Remmington 12 guage, and A Savage .243 bolt action rifle.) Everything I know about them is self taught, and its not much to be honest. However growing up I have always been a big fan of guns and know at least the basics on most U.S. military used from WWII to now. But I was going to sign up for a basic welding class, and basic machine shop here in Florida before I go to colorado for gunsmithing. Is this something that someone should have been doing before attending school or can a student go in with little to no experience and learn as they go.

Even though I may not know much about fixing, repairing, or customizing guns at this current time I do have a really great passion for them. I do know how to shoot them, and think I do a pretty decent job at it. I love cleaning them and maintaining them as well. I'm sure this is something I would love to do for a living because its something I enjoy.

[netsecsys]

If you make it up there, you'll be happy to find out that Doritos are not made chewy as they are in FL (also, you will save money on bread as you can keep a loaf for more than a few days up "north"). I grew up in FL and can say I don't miss cockroaches one bit... ;)

On a more serious note, you could always join the military and become an armorer.

Good luck!

[GatorBait]

It makes me sick seeing how difficult it will be. But I think I have to do this.

[BPTactical]

When I was out of high school I wanted to build custom rifles, specifically muzzleloaders.
My father who is an incredibly wise man told me: "That's fine and I will back you whatever you choose to do, but there are probably quite a few of those guys that are pretty hungry".
I went to school to be a machinist instead and don't regret it one bit.
I worked as a machinist for 12 years, with the majority of the time in a small two man shop that took on whatever came through the door. One day you might be polishing a vacuum mold and the next welding and machining a 5' diameter bullgear.
The things I learned you would never learn in a classroom environment.
They say it is easier to teach a machinist to be a Gunsmith than to teach a Gunsmith to machine.
I don't doubt it one iota.
To Smith you have to master many mediums, and I have seen quite a few guys that while they were good with metal, totally sucked at wood work and the other way around.
What are you good at?
I will also agree that a piece of paper doesn't mean much. Just because somebody can sit in a classroom and do ok on the class projects doesn't mean you can analyze a mechanism, understand it and repair it or bring it to it's optimum condition.
It also depends on how you learn. Are you a reader, listener or a hands on guy?
Can you read something or look at a technical drawing, comprehend it and apply it to your hands? Or do mechanical contrivances befuddle you? Can you look at a mechanical device, dissect it in your head, understand the relation ship of part A to part B and visualize its operation in your head? Or do you need somebody to explain and show you how it all comes together?
How you learn is very instrumental as to whether school is right for you.
Some of the best Smith's in history never set foot in a classroom.
They had the "Knack" for it. All the education in the world means nothing if you don't at least have a touch for it.
You mentioned owning your own shop. Come to the reality now that if this is what you want to do you will end up spending very little time working on firearms. Running a business is all consuming. You are answering the phone, doing paperwork and about 10,000 other things than physically working on a gun.

[GatorBait]

BPTactical, I have 0 experience machining, welding, woodwork ect.

I am a hands on learner. I like what I am doing to be right in front of me so when I am listening to how it works I can see it happen in front of me and relate the text and words into the function.

I will also be able to determine how most things work by a little investigating and tinkering. My weakness would really be never having anyone close who could have taught me how to weld, or do machine work. I think I would be quite well at it but like you said until i'm there doing it I wont really know.

I understand owning your own shop means not really doing any smithing any more. But the reason I thought the 2 year degree then 3rd year program at TSJC was so good is because I wouldnt be able to graduate and immediately open my own shop. Im sure I would have to work make a living and work my way to a business loan. So starting in a store as a smith watching how that owner runs his business ect. would give me good knowledge and foresight of what I would be getting into in the business aspect.

Also when I do run my own store I want to be able to determine if the firearms I am dealing and trading are in good working condition. I would also want to be adequate enough with gunsmithing to make sure my employees were doing their job correctly and not be putting my business in jeopardy. If I was not trained in gunsmithing myself I would never feel safe trusting others due to the liability of working on firearms.

Im not going to lie these replies have been pretty demotivating, I am now considering just getting my business degree here in florida then if it still seems like a good idea ill consider TSJC.

BpTactical on a side note what is your company like? Looking for newbies too apprentice ;)

[spyder]

If you're good, you don't need to worry about it. [Beer]

[BPTactical]

Not trying to dissuade you at all.
Just being honest. If you don't have the groove for it then you may be wiser to look at a different tangent.
There are many facets to the word "Gunsmithing".
Few are glamorous and fewer profitable.
Not just the Smithing world but I have seen many people who have invested a lot of time and money in schooling only to decide that all is not what it seems in the trade.
Try and find a job in the trade for a year or two before you make the plunge. That gives you a chance to decide if it is really what you want to do. I spent 4 years in a retail shop.
That convinced me I want nothing to do with the retail end of the business.

[spyder]

Not trying to dissuade you at all.
Just being honest. If you don't have the groove for it then you may be wiser to look at a different tangent.
There are many facets to the word "Gunsmithing".
Few are glamorous and fewer profitable.
Not just the Smithing world but I have seen many people who have invested a lot of time and money in schooling only to decide that all is not what it seems in the trade.
Try and find a job in the trade for a year or two before you make the plunge. That gives you a chance to decide if it is really what you want to do. I spent 4 years in a retail shop.
That convinced me I want nothing to do with the retail end of the business.
If you are just an average guy, you will be in repair in some "other" guys shop (like BP's) that's better than you, and you will probably not be making much. Definately not in your own shop anyway. You need to look at yourself and your skills and be honest if you can actually do it or not. You need to look at what your end goal actually is, and your short term (how you're gona get there). What I have thought about this trade (there is actual money to be made in it if you find your way), I have seen to be true with this summers NRA classes and a bunch of the shop owners from all over the country coming in. Gunsmithing is a lot like being a doctor, most, are just your normal do everything doc's, and they don't make much money. It's the specialists that make the dough. If you plan on making money, you had better be damn good at something, and something that people are actually gona want done. You had better plan where you are gona set up with what it is that you are going to want to do. My plan involves going to one of the companies that is going to offer me a job out the gate and spending some time, and saving money to do my own thing. That is of course if I don't end up moving up the ladder to what I would love to do for a place like Barrett, or Hk, ect. which is R&D. I have been in many trades though, and I know you need to be the best to pull this kind of thing off. One can look at my resume and see that I know how to do such a thing though and I'm not afraid in the least bit of my work, and how I will do later on against the rest. That's just me though, what I think Bert is trying to get at, is if you do this, you better be damn sure you "know" you can, thinking will just make you waste a bunch of money. [Beer]

As far as having a job while going to school here though... Your girl had better be ok with working. Student loans and grants will help ya a lot also. Like I said, Trinidad is cheap rent wise, well, and every other way too... I've nicknamed it the "Taint".