View Full Version : Question about NDs
This is not me, so don't worry I'm perfectly fine, but someone I know experienced a Negligent Discharge last night and the bullet grazed his leg. He claims he's okay and that it's only a flesh wound- he can still walk and everything. But now he's afraid to go to the hospital out of fear that it's firearms related and he could get in trouble or even have his 2nd Amendment freedom taken away. I explained how dirty bullets are and that he should get it treated so as not to risk infection. Are his fears just paranoia or can he really get in trouble or have his guns taken away? Thanks... other than the wound he's fine, at least we hope for now.
blacklabel
07-07-2012, 09:03
I would assume that he could be charged with discharging a weapon in the city if that's where it happened.
I would assume that he could be charged with discharging a weapon in the city if that's where it happened.
Unincorporated Jeffco- and no cops were called, he simply went inside and bandaged up... still, with how dirty ammo is I told him best to get treated so he didn't get an infection.
SuperiorDG
07-07-2012, 09:14
Clean it up, get some fish antibiotics and keep it to yourself. Why risk it getting it reported. Or he could just lie and say he was on NF land target shooting.
blacklabel
07-07-2012, 09:15
Yeah, he should definitely see a doc about it.
ETA: or do what SuperiorDG suggested.
The NF idea may be bad too. Stage 2 fire restrictions = illegal to shoot.
Is it a through and through or did it just take the top off?
The NF idea may be bad too. Stage 2 fire restrictions = illegal to shoot.
Is it a through and through or did it just take the top off?
Not sure if it went through and through or grazed, he just said "I was being dumb, had my booger picker on the trigger, and BAM! Shot myself in the leg, it's only about 1/2" or so, no real deep damage, but my car door is fvcked." He didn't sound like he was really in much pain, and I think it was sideways on his lap. But I didn't get much out of it since I spent about 5 minutes saying he shouldn't have a gun if he can't handle it safely. We almost lost a guy to friendly fire in our BDE in Afghanistan, 19 year old soldier became a paraplegic from some dumbass not clearing his weapon properly and had an ND, so this is a very touchy subject for me. Oops, looks like I pissed someone off today.
If its just a surface wound, I'd hit it with peroxide twice a day and keep it clean. Now if its bad enough to require stitches, he needs to go in. Maybe he can pass it off as a different type of injury depending on how it looks.
But on getting his 2A taken away, "Tex Grubner" pulled a through and through on himself, had it treated, then posted it on YouTube, in turn making it to Tosh, and I don't believe he lost it.
If he goes to a hospital, they are legally obligated to report gunshot wounds to the police. Charges would range from nothing to reckless endangerment. Jeffco sheriffs would probably decline to charge him, after they got done laughing and chewing him out.
If its just a surface wound, I'd hit it with peroxide twice a day and keep it clean. Now if its bad enough to require stitches, he needs to go in. Maybe he can pass it off as a different type of injury depending on how it looks.
But on getting his 2A taken away, "Tex Grubner" pulled a through and through on himself, had it treated, then posted it on YouTube, in turn making it to Tosh, and I don't believe he lost it.
Tex also drinks his own urine on Youtube. Not a shining example of human evolution.
Just got a picture of it, through and through... I won't post it here, it's pretty gruesome. It's about 3/4" penetration, only about 1/2" into the thigh, looks to be all muscle tissue and skin damaged, luckily it was only a 9mm. He just said he's at about 75% on his right leg, can still run. Exit wound isn't very big, so it's basically two holes in his leg... looks pretty damn painful to me but he said he can now understand how thugs can keep coming after being shot once.
If he goes to a hospital, they are legally obligated to report gunshot wounds to the police. Charges would range from nothing to reckless endangerment. Jeffco sheriffs would probably decline to charge him, after they got done laughing and chewing him out.
Thanks TF... so reckless endangerment, as I understand, is a class III misdemeanor- what kind of penalty does that involve... also, this person has a CCW, would that be at risk if he goes to a hospital to get treated?
Tex also drinks his own urine on Youtube. Not a shining example of human evolution.
Never said he was. After all, he did shoot himself pretty good. I just used his example to counter the losing 2A rights that Ronin was concerned about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GVzzuY7BI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Mick-Boy
07-07-2012, 09:57
If it's a through and through he needs to get his ass to the hospital. He can tell them he was shooting where ever but nasty things can get into untreated wounds like that.
SideShow Bob
07-07-2012, 09:59
He needs to go to a Dr. Office or Hospital, better the embarrassment and unlikely charges than losing his leg to a serious infection. A through and through introduced all sorts of nasty crap into the leg especially if he was wearing pants instead of shorts.
If it already has an angry redness surrounding the wound, infection has already established a foothold.
Mick-Boy
07-07-2012, 10:02
After he gets out of the hospital you should send him to Cmailliard's Med class... Ya know, just in case. [Coffee]
Thanks TF... so reckless endangerment, as I understand, is a class III misdemeanor- what kind of penalty does that involve... also, this person has a CCW, would that be at risk if he goes to a hospital to get treated?
Any firearms charge can potentially result in suspension or revocation of his permit (sheriffs have considerable discretion). Realistically, he most likely would not be charged, but that would depend on the circumstances of the ND
Never said he was. After all, he did shoot himself pretty good. I just used his example to counter the losing 2A rights that Ronin was concerned about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GVzzuY7BI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I forgot the [Tooth] smilie....not baggin' on you [Beer]
Most cops are unlikely to push for serious charges in the case of an ND that only endangered the shooter.
Any firearms charge can potentially result in suspension or revocation of his permit (sheriffs have considerable discretion). Realistically, he most likely would not be charged, but that would depend on the circumstances of the ND
Most cops are unlikely to push for serious charges in the case of an ND that only endangered the shooter.
No one else was in danger, he was in his car, I guess putting the gun away or something (foggy on that) the only property damage was done to his own car (went through the door, I guess the window was down and broke either the window or the mechanism or both). His other concern is his SBR and NFA paperwork is in the works with JCSO and he already paid $3000 for it and doesn't want to get denied or whatever and lose the money he already paid (sort of a no return policy I bet?). He also doesn't want to lose his CCW. But on the other hand I'm sure he doesn't want to lose his leg. This is a touchy bit for him and we're not sure how to handle it. My guess, go to the hospital, get treated, get some antibiotics and then call a lawyer once they contact the police? Problem is, the closest hospital is at 2nd and Union and the PD contacted would be Lakewood... Would they refer the case to Jeffco or Lakewood municipal court?
Great-Kazoo
07-07-2012, 11:03
Him "accidentally" shooting himself is a completely separate from his NFA filings and CCW.
The only issue might be from his showing up 2-3 days after the fact.
ANY penetration of your skin can and may lead to serious infection, loss of limb or death. Where does he place his limb or life on a food chart?
Big Wall
07-07-2012, 11:13
Stupid hurts. He needs to get to a Dr. and deal with the rest later.
spqrzilla
07-07-2012, 11:49
Get treatment, answer simple questions with simple answers from police if they are notified, and quit worrying.
SideShow Bob
07-07-2012, 11:54
The longer "your friend" waits the more suspicious he will appear to the police if they are notified.
And of course the more of a chance that serious complications have to set in.
Keep us informed, and post the pictures with a Warning about content.
OneGuy67
07-07-2012, 12:07
The hospital will most likely contact Lakewood PD, who upon interviewing him to determine the what and where, will most likely have a Jeffco Deputy come out and take a report, since it occurred in Unicorporated Jeffco.
Or, to save time, your friend can tell the hospital staff it occurred in Unincorporated Jeffco and they can contact Jeffco directly and save the hassle for the Lakewood people.
Just tell them that he was picking up some aquanet for his boo at a walmart in greeley. They'll understand.
AirbornePathogen
07-07-2012, 13:42
The longer "your friend" waits the more suspicious he will appear to the police if they are notified.
And of course the more of a chance that serious complications have to set in.
Keep us informed, and post the pictures with a Warning about content.
Agreed with Bob. I doubt he'd be charged, and he needs to get checked out, bottom line.
Okay, update (and for the record, this "friend" was not me, it was my brother)...
Went to the doctor, got a tetanus shot, and some antibiotics (they said no sign of infection, lucky!). JCSO sent a deputy to take a report, she was very nice and no ticket or charges, he keeps his CCW as of now, and all should be good, just gotta heal!
WARNING, picture is a little graphic...
Top of left thigh, entry and exit wound.
You've been warned....
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7247/7536746222_4e198b88dd.jpg
SideShow Bob
07-09-2012, 11:53
2Did he use the " I don't know what happened officer, the gun was just sitting in my lap, and it suddenly went off. Honestly I wasn't touching it or nothing." Excuse when he talked to the officer ?
Lucky dude, could definitely have been worse.
That's a nice clean wound. Definitely could've been worse.
No he told the honest truth, he was sitting in his car, unchambering the round to store it "safely" and by either his mistake or clothing the trigger was accidently depressed and the gun went off. The investigator and deputies that took the report all stated how very lucky he was and hope that he recovers swiftly. The doctor even said there appears to be a very low risk for infection and prescribed antibiotics just in case.
SuperiorDG
07-09-2012, 12:42
At least he shot the guy the shot him. [ROFL1]
BPTactical
07-09-2012, 13:24
At least he shot the guy who shot him. [ROFL1]
Fixed
And funny as hell[Beer]
Ronin-you guys from the shallow end of the pool?
Fixed
And funny as hell[Beer]
Ronin-you guys from the shallow end of the pool?
hahahaha. I know what some on here would say. Wanna open a poll thread?
ChadAmberg
07-09-2012, 15:35
He was just laying down some supressive fire before starting the ignition.
YammyMonkey
07-09-2012, 19:51
Now that he's fine, let this be a lesson to us all. Be careful, follow the rules as much as possibe,, with the realization that there may be no such thing as a safe line for the muzzle, and what-if this a bit. What would you rather deal with, a hassle at the hospital, or death/loss of limb and a hassle at the hospital?
My life and limbs > my CCW permit or NFA gear (if I had any, which I don't).
hghclsswhitetrsh
07-09-2012, 22:55
Glad your bro is going to be fine. So quick question, you mentioned 9mm but how about the bullet jhp or fmj. Guessing fmj.
RCCrawler
07-09-2012, 23:56
Ronin-you guys from the shallow end of the pool?
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/joker.gif
Did you suck the poison out?
Great-Kazoo
07-10-2012, 01:25
Did you suck the poison out?
Not high enough to take Brotherly Love maneuvers.
See where the squirrel bit me.........................................
Ronin-you guys from the shallow end of the pool?
That wasn't very nice...
http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/GlennBeckPouting.jpg
Glad your bro is going to be fine. So quick question, you mentioned 9mm but how about the bullet jhp or fmj. Guessing fmj.
That's the crazy part, they were JHP. The bullet passed through his leg (causing minimal damage considering) then into the car door, broke the window and did not completely pass through the door- there is a dent on the outside of the door where it struck...
Mick-Boy
07-10-2012, 10:36
That's not that crazy. Your brothers leg, that close to the surface didn't provide enough resistance for the round to expand as designed (luckily).
If you take the paneling off the door you'll probably find that the round hit part of the door's internal frame (which is what stopped it).
That's one of the reasons cars suck, both as cover and to shoot people through. It's almost impossible to predict what the round is going to do once it hits.
Do you happen to know what round (manufacturer, model, weight) he was carrying?
That's not that crazy. Your brothers leg, that close to the surface didn't provide enough resistance for the round to expand as designed (luckily).
If you take the paneling off the door you'll probably find that the round hit part of the door's internal frame (which is what stopped it).
That's one of the reasons cars suck, both as cover and to shoot people through. It's almost impossible to predict what the round is going to do once it hits.
Do you happen to know what round (manufacturer, model, weight) he was carrying?
I agree- found out after the north Hollywood shoot out that 7.62x39 rounds pass through doors pretty easily, but their paths are insane! This round went in at about the halfway point of the door, but the dent where it hit the outer part of the door is about 8" forward of the initial entry point.
The round fired was HPR 124gr JHP.
Clean it up, get some fish antibiotics and keep it to yourself. Why risk it getting it reported. Or he could just lie and say he was on NF land target shooting.
yeah, fish antibiotics. . . . . .
MountainMax74
07-10-2012, 14:14
At least he shot the guy who shot him. [ROFL1]
LMAO!!!!! [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]
josh7328
07-10-2012, 16:47
does the HPR 124gr JHP use an XTP bullet?
Glad the round didnt hit lower, near his artery, and that he is okay.
This makes me glad I carry a trauma kit.
does the HPR 124gr JHP use an XTP bullet?
Glad the round didnt hit lower, near his artery, and that he is okay.
This makes me glad I carry a trauma kit.
We were glad too! I'm not sure what XTP means, but since it was so close (2-4") I don't think it really had time to expand.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_thumb.php?img=images/2%209MM%20HPR%20124GR%20JHP%205-1834.jpg&w=240&h=160
josh7328
07-11-2012, 10:43
We were glad too! I'm not sure what XTP means, but since it was so close (2-4") I don't think it really had time to expand.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_thumb.php?img=images/2%209MM%20HPR%20124GR%20JHP%205-1834.jpg&w=240&h=160
XTP is a Hornady made hollowpoint bullet. ^these look like they are indeed, XTP projectiles.
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