was this "accident" caused by horizontal shoulder holster???

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[RCCrawler]

Article is gone.

found it at this link.

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=276682

Sounds like a shitty holster.

[keylay31]

link is dead

[trlcavscout]

Link doesnt work? Must have been leather/nylon holster, could happen easily. Very sad!

[Fentonite]

I don't see how this could happen with a quality shoulder rig. A crappy one, combined with a back-hug from a too-friendly sasquatch, maybe, but a nice Galco rig or the like? Hmmm.

[keylay31]

Must have been leather/nylon holster, could happen easily. Very sad!

I'd be interested in just how easily you think this could happen. I don't know enough about shoulder holsters to disagree with you, but it seems unlikely if a) the gun is quality and b) the trigger is covered

[Goodburbon]

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=276682


see if that works

[trlcavscout]

I'd be interested in just how easily you think this could happen. I don't know enough about shoulder holsters to disagree with you, but it seems unlikely if a) the gun is quality and b) the trigger is covered

I dont have numbers to back it up, but look at all the "accidental discharges" over the last few years and all that i can remember were with leather holsters. The guy that shot him self and died in front of his kids while his wife was getting a movie, the guy that shot his floor board while buckling his seatbelt. Most of them are leather belt holsters but nylon is even worse. Their have been some with kydex holsters but most were user error on serpa holsters etc and happened upon drawing the weapon. I will stick with kydex holsters and kydex trigger guard holsters.

Either way if she hugged him from behind therefore pulling the gun towards her in the holster causing a discharge the holster was either to tight in the trigger guard area, the holster was bunched up from being soft and or worn, or it was the wrong holster. Still a very sad story.

Edit, the other question is was the gun modified? Bubba 1lb trigger job etc? I have made some kydex holsters and sold them, each one is tested for every possible thing i can think of includeing discharge etc.

[stevelkinevil]

this whole thing stinks, I believe most of these "accidents" are not accidents at all. A good quality weapon will NOT fire unless the trigger is depressed, period. Fishy.

[keylay31]

From a different website I read that the gun was a S&w m&p 40. The suggestion was that you could "stage" the trigger (pulling it back halfway disengaging the safety, and then release it and the safety would not reset). At that point it would be much easier to fire, even if it just took a shock. Anyone have any experience with this? Is this plausible? Is this a m&p issue only? Would Glock, xdm, sig, have the same issue? Any m&p exPerts out there?

[Sawin]

this whole thing stinks, I believe most of these "accidents" are not accidents at all. A good quality weapon will NOT fire unless the trigger is depressed, period. Fishy.

I tend to agree with you Stevelkinevil. As soon as I read the opening paragraph of the story, I thought "there's got to be a lot more to this story than that...". I doubt we'll ever know the circumstances of this tragedy. I wonder what witnesses have to say about it?

[spqrzilla]

I'm still confused regarding the geometry.

[Teufelhund]

From a different website I read that the gun was a S&w m&p 40. The suggestion was that you could "stage" the trigger (pulling it back halfway disengaging the safety, and then release it and the safety would not reset). At that point it would be much easier to fire, even if it just took a shock. Anyone have any experience with this? Is this plausible? Is this a m&p issue only? Would Glock, xdm, sig, have the same issue? Any m&p exPerts out there?

I assume you're talking about the trigger safety? I hadn't heard this before, so I pulled an M&P out of the safe to try it out, but there doesn't seem to be any way to do it as far as I can tell. The safety re-engages as soon as you let go of the trigger. Maybe one of our reputable gunsmiths on here can chime in.

[OneGuy67]

"The married officer, who has not been named, claims that he did not know Ms Miller and that she turned up to a party at his house with a group of her friends.

The police have said that Ms Miller hugged the officer from behind, her mother was told by friends that her daughter 'was being a little flirty' with the man and hugged him face-to-face."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170759/Adaisha-Miller-killed-police-officers-gun-fires-hugs-him.html#ixzz208bZAZkg


"Police said that Miller hugged the officer -- whose name has not been released -- from behind as he was dancing, and the gun discharged.


However, McNair said she also was told her daughter “was being a little flirty” with the officer and the gun fired as they were in a face-to-face hug.
If you’re at a party, she asked, “why do you need a weapon with a round in the chamber?”

John Goldpaugh, a lawyer for the Detroit Police Officers Association, said, “This was just a freak accident. They were having a party and the next thing, a woman is dead. He’s devastated by what happened.”

Goldpaugh, who spent several hours with the officer after the shooting, said the veteran beat patrolman was hosting a party at his home and was dancing with his wife when Miller came up behind him and tugged at his waist.

“And the gun went off,” Goldpaugh said. “It’s a fluke accidental shooting.”
The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer’s waistband and was covered by his shirt, Goldpaugh said."

I'm still confused as to how this occured. Cheapy suede holster? Cross draw?

[Sawin]

"The married officer, who has not been named, claims that he did not know Ms Miller and that she turned up to a party at his house with a group of her friends.

The police have said that Ms Miller hugged the officer from behind, her mother was told by friends that her daughter 'was being a little flirty' with the man and hugged him face-to-face."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170759/Adaisha-Miller-killed-police-officers-gun-fires-hugs-him.html#ixzz208bZAZkg


"Police said that Miller hugged the officer -- whose name has not been released -- from behind as he was dancing, and the gun discharged.


However, McNair said she also was told her daughter “was being a little flirty” with the officer and the gun fired as they were in a face-to-face hug.
If you’re at a party, she asked, “why do you need a weapon with a round in the chamber?”

John Goldpaugh, a lawyer for the Detroit Police Officers Association, said, “This was just a freak accident. They were having a party and the next thing, a woman is dead. He’s devastated by what happened.”

Goldpaugh, who spent several hours with the officer after the shooting, said the veteran beat patrolman was hosting a party at his home and was dancing with his wife when Miller came up behind him and tugged at his waist.

“And the gun went off,” Goldpaugh said. “It’s a fluke accidental shooting.”
The weapon, a department-issued, 40-caliber Smith & Wesson semiautomatic pistol, was in a holster worn inside the officer’s waistband and was covered by his shirt, Goldpaugh said."

I'm still confused as to how this occured. Cheapy suede holster? Cross draw?


For it to have hit her in the lung and heart, she must have been down on her knees hugging him around the waist....

[Skully]

For it to have hit her in the lung and heart, she must have been down on her knees hugging him around the waist....

It didn't say how tall she was she might be short................

[Bailey Guns]

Could there possibly be any more discrepancies in this story? Someone is not telling the entire truth.

[sabot_round]

Agreed!! The entire story makes as much sense as putting a screendoor on a submarine.

[trlcavscout]

Maybe she grabbed the wrong gun while hugging him from behind and the wife shot her? Pretty wierd story, IWB holster shoots her in heart and lung. This has the makings of a bad B jean claude movie.

[Cylinder Head]

Something like a Galco Miami Classic would put the gun in a position to go off in such a way. I just can't see how that would happen unless the officer had either a shitty imitation holster or some really light trigger job (like the FSS trigger for M&P)

[Chad4000]

yeah very weird....

[Skully]

Agreed!! The entire story makes as much sense as putting a screendoor on a submarine.

Yeah I read the story a couple different times and re-read it. There is pieces missing or the public isn't getting the whole story.

..........whatever the outcome of the investigation, it is sad someone that young had to depart under bad circumstances with absolutely no meaning.

[anomad]

I've seen videos of some pretty interesting "bumpin and grindin" that constitutes dancing these days...

But yeah, most likely the gun "just went off".

[Clint45]

Freak accident. A Glock in a defective or damaged horizontal shoulder holster could've discharged due to being pressed against material touching the trigger. I have heard of several cases where a Glock in a worn holster discharged as someone was entering or exiting a vehicle due to worn leather bending inside the trigger guard.

It is also possible that if a drunken woman with impaired judgement was groping him from behind she may have deliberately grabbed his gun from an awkward angle and accidentally fired it.

I wonder if they made the officer get tested for alcohol?

[SuperiorDG]

Just speculating, but perhaps when she touched his gun he reacted by grabbing it and pulled the trigger.

[10mm-man]

Just speculating, but perhaps when she touched his gun he reacted by grabbing it and pulled the trigger.

That is what I was thinking, speculation (as it all is right now) but what if;she came up from behind and accident grabbed his gun? He didn't know her or her intentions (or maybe who it was at all) and out of reaction fearing for his life pulled the trigger???

Speculation yes, but why we are all at it, thought I would through my $.02 @ it...

[stevelkinevil]

From a different website I read that the gun was a S&w m&p 40. The suggestion was that you could "stage" the trigger (pulling it back halfway disengaging the safety, and then release it and the safety would not reset). At that point it would be much easier to fire, even if it just took a shock. Anyone have any experience with this? Is this plausible? Is this a m&p issue only? Would Glock, xdm, sig, have the same issue? Any m&p exPerts out there?

I cant speak to the Glock or XD, but as a certified M&P armorer I can tell you that is not the case for the M&P. I still think the whole thing stinks to high heaven and not just because it involves Detroit.

[Adawg38]

Man I am totally confused here.[Bang]
Shoulder holster or iwb holster? Iwb I just don't see it without the officer being shot. Shoulder holster maybe. Anyway it is a tragic accident and it sucks. I know the mother is devastated and sorry for her loss but I really don't get it and kind of get upset when something like this happens and the victims love one has to question why the person had a gun like in this case the mother asks why he was carrying a loaded gun at his own home and his own party. I don't mean to sound like a dick.

[10mm-man]

the mother asks why he was carrying a loaded gun at his own home and his own party. I don't mean to sound like a dick.

Think maybe she is just trying to deal with her loss. Maybe she don't carry, so it doesn't make sense to her.

[trlcavscout]

M&P 40 in a soft neoprene holster. $20 holster! Why?

http://wap.myfoxdetroit.com/w/main/story/66870571/

[Mick-Boy]

I'm assuming the Detroit Police have the holster and weapon as evidence. The only thing I can imagine is that she was down low behind him (engaged in some of the a fore mentioned bumping and grinding) and she tilted the butt of the gun forward and depressed the trigger.

I've seen a couple of striker fired guns malfunction (almost always due to an amateur gunsmith and a dremel) but I've seen more NDs. With Glock, M&Ps and XDs I always assume human error first.