Clips vs Magazines

[Ice Pirate]

I'd doubt if I'm the only one here who gets annoyed by people who load their rifles with a "30 round CLIP." Or a "Banana CLIP."

Well a friend of mine, Pete Nelson, from another site put this little video together to explain the difference between the Clip and the Magazine, for the Nomenclature Challenged. I've been and Air Force CATM Instructor for 27 years, and this is the best explaination I've seen.

http://www.lifelibertyetc.com/RangeBag/Video/LLE_Clips_Magazines.wmv

Yeah, I know, he did his demonstration with Live Ammo, and I've already talked to him about that. :roll:

[WillysWagon]

No doubt the best explanation of a mag vs clip I've seen.

[Wallary]

I got kinda excited when he got out the shotgun, I want a 8 round shotgun clip for my Tactical Remmington 1100!!!! :mrgreen:

[HunterCO]

Yeah, I know, he did his demonstration with Live Ammo, and I've already talked to him about that. :roll:

WTF does that have to do with it??? If you handle a firearm properly it makes no difference if it's unloaded, loaded, broke, cocked locked and ready to go, drove over by a tank, smashed with a sludge hammer I don't get your point you lost me?????

He did good made it very simple!

[Colorado Osprey]

I think a lot of confusion of true gun afficianatos with these terms comes from something the instructor pointed out.

Clips are used to fill a magazine....magazines are sometimes internal, sometimes externally visable like the SKS.

Magazines are removable....but so are some clips like the M1....so is the M1 ammo loading device clip really a clip or a magazine. The military labeled it a clip. But because it was removable shouldn't it really be a magazine. No, because the magazine is located internally in the rifle.

The term magazine has some very old history even before the use of guns and gun powders. It was where weapons were stored....even when those weapons were swords and spears.

The M1 stores ammo in the internal space in the weapon, so this area in the M1 is a magazine...and what loads it is a clip.

So, a pistol with a hollow handle that stores ammo, does this use a clip or a magazine. Well there is an area in the bottom of the grip to insert ammo for storage...and this area is the magazine. You install a clip into that magazine....now see where the confusion comes from.

Because weapons like the M16 family store most of their ammo outside the weapon, there is no true magazine in the weapon, and hense it has a removable magazine....not a removable clip. The clips for the M16 family are for loading magazines as shown in the video and called stripper clips.

My point to this long post is that some people seem to have a pet peeve about these terms being used some say incorrectly; usually brought out by prior military service where it was driven into them. Of course the military is always right about everything, right?

So, if the ammo is stored internally, the term magazine should be used and as such there are many firearms that could use magazines. But is the ammo storage device is removable, it could be correctly called a clip if it is installed mostly internal in the firearm....like most semi auto pistols....as long as you are not in the military.

Did I stir this enough?

[PsychoI3oy]

I always boiled it down to the magazine being the part with the follower and spring, and the clip being a simple piece of metal that holds onto rounds.

[shrapmetal]

i dont have a problem with either term. i understand the differance between the two. i look at it more like slang. if anyone on this site was asked to pass a clip "incorrectly" we would all understand what that person wanted so whats the big deal? other than having the chance to correct someone i don't see the problem. lots of things have more than one name. people call ammunition "ammo" or "rounds" should we be correcting that?

in my line of work body piercing have different names depending on what part of the country you hail from. we don't correct people we just make sure we understand what they want and help them.

i just think the term is used "wrong" enough that the understanding still is there. call the muzzle a buttstock i might correct you, but ask for a clip and i'll hand you a "mag" no questions asked.

it doesn't bother me one bit.

[7idl]

it's important to use the correct terminology.

just like your AR or AK type rifle is an "asault rifle". well if it isn't select fire, then it isn't a true 'assault rifle'. The media and anti's are fueled by their disregard for facts. Why get caught up in the same crap?

use proper terminology where appropriate and educate those around you to the fact.

[Driftwood]

Pretty cool video, thanks!

I knew the difference between the two but didn't know a M1 had an internal magazine, or that it was at least called that. Interesting.

[Driftwood]

use proper terminology where appropriate and educate those around you to the fact.

:mrgreen: I wholeheartedly agree!

I always tell people that clips are for your hair.

Or maybe I should start saying, "Honey, what are you doing with my magazine in your hair?"

:P

[WillysWagon]

At work one day I was talking about vests Police, Military and the such use to hold gear (sidearm, magazines, shells, etc..).

When I mentioned some were made to hold several 'magazines', she responded, "Why to they need to read so much?"

I just looked at her and cracked up, right about the same time, she understood the 'magazine' is what the ammo fit in to go into the weapon.

We both cracked up then, I still kid her to this day about that.

[shrapmetal]

it's important to use the correct terminology.

just like your AR or AK type rifle is an "asault rifle". well if it isn't select fire, then it isn't a true 'assault rifle'. The media and anti's are fueled by their disregard for facts. Why get caught up in the same crap?

use proper terminology where appropriate and educate those around you to the fact.

i can see the point with that, but we do not speak proper english all the time. if you come to my house and ask where i keep my magazines. i'll reply next to the toilet. when someone posts pics of a gun people reply thats cool. it's doesnt mean that the gun is cold. heck bad doesn't even mean bad half the time in this day and age.

i understand the difference between the two, i guess i don't see this one as being a big deal. it is not a term that is labeled evil by the media. it's not a mistake that could cause one harm. although it would be funny to watch someone try and put a stripper clip into the mag well of an AR. assult rife is a term invented to try and demonize our guns. in my house i don't like the term weapon. i feel that that word is used to describe something meant to cause another person harm. my firearm collection is for sporting purposes there for they are not weapons at all. could they be used as weapons? of course they could but that is not why i have them. a hammer could also be a weapon as well as a car. those types of words i choose carefully.

i can say that i use both terms to describe the same thing. with my chicken pecking typing skills clip comes out alot easier for me.

what is the point that a word becomes acceptable slang? we may not ever like it but it happens.

i want to make sure everyone knows im not upset in anyway over this disscussion. i'm just tring to understand why some people might feel that way.

[Mista Bukit]

[poke] Maybe somebody should publish "The Politcaly Correct Guide To Assault Weapons"
Never call ammunition “ammo" or heaven forbid "bullets" it shall be known as "self contained projectile device”
An AR-15 shall not be referred to as, a "gun" or a "rifle" and never an "assault weapon", in the future always say “US government approved personal defense mechanism”
Clip /Magazine – “Self contained projectile storage and feeding unit”

[GearHead]

ARs are home land defense tools.

[Gman]

ARs are pseudo-assault rifles. They are no different than any other semi-auto rifle...other than their looks.

I never had a problem understanding the difference between mags and clips. I try to educate others to the differences.

[HunterCO]

Why do gun owners say an "ASSUALT RIFLE" is full auto no offense to any one but my FA has never assaulted anyone. For that matter I don't even own a gun that has assaulted anyone.

A so called "ASSAULT RIFLE" is any firearm you use to assault someone. I don't understand why gun owners give in to the libs and say it's not an assault rifle unless it's FA.

They are all firearms period I don't get it. [?]

[Ice Pirate]

Yeah, I know, he did his demonstration with Live Ammo, and I've already talked to him about that. :roll:

WTF does that have to do with it??? If you handle a firearm properly it makes no difference if it's unloaded, loaded, broke, cocked locked and ready to go, drove over by a tank, smashed with a sludge hammer I don't get your point you lost me?????

He did good made it very simple!

Maybe it's just me, but as a small arms instructor, I would NEVER use live ammo to demonstrate anything unless I was on a range and all had eye and ear protection. It's just not safe to be charging live rounds for the purpose of demonstration.

Remember what happened to that Cop in a room full of kids? Murphy is alive and well and as soon as you start thinking, "That'll never happen to me..." "BANG" and somebody's bleeding.

Use dummy rounds, snap caps or nothing. Never demonstrate with live rounds unless you intend to fire.

[HunterCO]

Yeah, I know, he did his demonstration with Live Ammo, and I've already talked to him about that. :roll:

WTF does that have to do with it??? If you handle a firearm properly it makes no difference if it's unloaded, loaded, broke, cocked locked and ready to go, drove over by a tank, smashed with a sludge hammer I don't get your point you lost me?????

He did good made it very simple!

Maybe it's just me, but as a small arms instructor, I would NEVER use live ammo to demonstrate anything unless I was on a range and all had eye and ear protection. It's just not safe to be charging live rounds for the purpose of demonstration.

Remember what happened to that Cop in a room full of kids? Murphy is alive and well and as soon as you start thinking, "That'll never happen to me..." "BANG" and somebody's bleeding.

Use dummy rounds, snap caps or nothing. Never demonstrate with live rounds unless you intend to fire.

You are right I will empty my CCW weapon of any live rounds and only carry snap caps or dummy rounds from here on out. I never knew that I was so stupid for carrying much less handling a firearm with live ammo.

I never knew that unless I intended to fire my gun it was not acceptable to have a "LIVE" round in the chamber. So much for CCW I sure hope the bad guys get scared when I fire my snap cap.

Once again...

WTF does that have to do with it??? If you handle a firearm properly it makes no difference

What part of that do you not understand???

[Ice Pirate]

First off Hunter, you don't have to get pissed off! I'm not jumping in your ass and I'm NOT saying that ALL guns have to be kept cleared and safe until you want to pull the trigger. Thats really pushing the point way too far. I'm talking about TEACHING here, not carrying as a duty weapon or anything else.

All I'm saying, is that if you are DEMONSTRATING with a weapon, that it is much safer to use dummy rounds than live rounds. Yes, IF you are handling your weapon properly and safely, WHILE DEMONSTRATING, nothing SHOULD go wrong. But, IF you are just demonstrating, why run the risk of accidentally setting off a round? That is just a risk that in a class room setting, is un-necessary and unsafe.

If I'm demonstrating how to change the blade on my Table Saw, I'm not going to do it while it's plugged in. No, it shouldn't start and chop off my fingers, but why take the risk? Furthermore, just because I unplug the saw to change the blades, doesn't mean I have to keep it unpluged until I'm ready to cut a board.

There are levels of risk that are acceptable in a training environment, and levels of risk that are not. Demonstrating loading and clearing proceedures with Live ammunition, is not. It is a fact that the vast majority of accidental or inadvertent discharges happen during loading and clearing proceedures.

You might say WTF, but I say, WHY RUN THE RISK if you don't have to?

[shrapmetal]

i wouls say it would depend on the situation. at home with a camera on the tripod where i know i have good muzzle control. no big deal i would use live rounds. in a classroom where i don't know whats on the other side of the wall and a room full of people in front of me. dummy rounds for sure. i know a guy that shoot off his middle finger with his "unloaded" 1911. you cant say enough about muzzle control. live or dummy ammo always keep an eye "not your finger" on your muzzle.

[HunterCO]

Well, thats one guy that wont offend anybody if he gives them the finger [pirate]
Anyway, I'm one of those guys that has to see whats in the chamber right before he dry fires anything, regardless of if I already know whats there. Call it habit, call it what you want but imo.. guns dont accidentally discharge... the trigger gets pulled with one in the chamber, and generally its no accident. I'd take a guy that checks before he pulls that only uses loaded rounds before I'd take a guy that knows their is only snap caps in his magazine in a training course so it is safe to dry fire. Imo, the former is safer then the latter.

In almost every case of an "accidental discharge" the accident is that the shooter did something unsafe, either handling, loading, unloading, or the biggest reason: assuming. I'm willing to bet that "accidental discharges" without a lapse in saftey or judgement almost never happen.

I put one through a wall once, but luckly my level of safe handling kept anyone from being hurt. I was on one of my 20 hour work benders, had just gotten home and cleaned my carbine to go shooting the next day. Somehow grabbed my loaded mag to dry fire it. Serious mistake because A: didnt check the chamber before I pulled B: Was doing this with a serious lack of sleep. However, no one was (or could have been) at risk of injury because of the way I operate, the gun was pointed in an assured safe direction.

Keep in mind people, in most cases the only time you can kill somebody accidentally is when you pull the trigger purposely. Always check before you pull.

My .02

Glad somebody gets it. [wink]

Icepirate you don't get it, which I find ironic since you claim your an instructor. Just so you know you did not make me mad nor do I have anything against you I am just speaking my mind that is all.

I agree with foxtrot 100% that I would much rather be around somebody that treats a gun as it should be. Then to be around some idiot that thinks because he has snap caps the gun is safe, That sir is what causes stupidity and the end result is somebody gets hurt.

It's a false sense of security that allows for people to feel they can not follow the basic firearm saftey rules that we are all taught. Funny how it is always the gun that is "unloaded" that gets somebody killed by accident. Do you remember these rules by chance??

1. ALWAYS treat every gun as if it is loaded.

2. NEVER point a gun at anything you do not wish to destroy. (This is the same thing as ALWAYS keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction).

3. NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you intened to fire the weapon.

Seems to me that if those basic simple rules are followed there would never be some moron cop shoot himself in the leg while doing a demo. Once again if he would have followed a few simple rules it would have made no damn difference if it was loaded or not. Snap caps can not cure stupidity period.

In the case of your freind I never seen the man act in an unsafe manner. He practiced perfect gun saftey and I still do not get your point. BFD he used live rounds SO WHAT he did a great job of teaching people and made it simple.

[Ice Pirate]

Last Post, I promise.

Hunter, you still do not get my point. I'm not saying that it's ok to ever treat a weapon as if it's in any condition other than loaded. All I'm saying is this:

1. WHEN TEACHING/DEMONSTRATING anywhere other than on a range, while the use of live ammo does not increase the possiblity of an accident, it does increases the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

2. At NO TIME does the use of Dummy ammo, make it alright to handle any weapon in a manner other than if it were loaded. Yes that means that you still have to keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction and yes, you still have to keep you finger OFF the trigger. I have had instructors under my supervision, carelessly handle weapons in a classroom before, and in those very few cases, I almost had to have my boot surgicly removed from their butt.

3. Accidents happen. Some weapons, like the Browning Hi-Power, the Colt 1911, etc. REQUIRE THE SAFETY TO BE OFF when loading or clearing, in order to operate the slide. Weapons can slip in the hand and there is always the chance that while demonstrating a technique, a normally amazingly safe and highly skilled individual might get distracted with a camera, student, what ever, and inadvertently do something they might never believe themselves capable of. Things can go wrong in a micro second and when they do, it's too late to say, "Sorry about that."

This is why, in the US Air Force anyway, we do not allow live ammo in the classroom. There is no reason to have live ammo in a classroom if you are not planning to shoot in the classroom. That is why dummy rounds are made. It is just an UN-NECCESSARY RISK to you and any students that might be there to use live ammo in a classroom.

I guess for me, I believe that, in the case of an un-thinkable accident, I'd rather hear "CLICK" than "BANG!"

That said, if you want to demonstrate loading, un-loading, shooting, clearing, cleaning, clearance of jams & malfunctions or anything else, with live ammo in a classroom, in a home, or anywhere else for that matter, well, you go right ahead. I won't say a word, or type one for that matter. I won't be there.

[HunterCO]

Last Post, I promise.

Hunter, you still do not get my point. I'm not saying that it's ok to ever treat a weapon as if it's in any condition other than loaded. All I'm saying is this:

1. WHEN TEACHING/DEMONSTRATING anywhere other than on a range, while the use of live ammo does not increase the possiblity of an accident, it does increases the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

I got it! If you use live ammo it does not increase the the possibility of an accident, It however does increas the RISK of serious bodily harm should an accident occur.

Are you by chance related to Sarah Brady???

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