U.S. Border Patrol uses bean bags in a fire fight with Mexican drug cartels.

[Jumpstart]

If you vote for Obama and his half wit politically correct crew in November you are a complete idiot. Rant over for now.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/09/justice-unseals-indictment-charging-five-in-brian-terry-death/?intcmp=trending

[The Heretic]

I never thought I'd have to say "Never Bring a Beanbag to a Gunfight"....

[Chad4000]

I never thought I'd have to say "Never Bring a Beanbag to a Gunfight"....


LOL...

aint that the truth

[funkymonkey1111]

next they'll be outlawing tactical bean bags

[TFOGGER]

At least they didn't resort to throwing staplers at them...

[Great-Kazoo]

Old news, This is how that BP agent lost his life, hence investigation in to F&F.

[clublights]

I used to think the Soviets and the East Germans were wrong for securing their borders with military...

Maybe they had it right all along.

:-/

[Tinelement]

At least they didn't resort to throwing staplers at them...

I woulda been screwed! Tried to use mine this morning and it was broke!

[UncleDave]

Still works as a projectile.

[Lurch]

Maybe they thought they were playing cornhole.

[two shoes]

b-b-b-b-b-but, thhhhhhhhat-t-t-t-s, m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-my stapler...

[Jumpstart]

Old news, This is how that BP agent lost his life, hence investigation in to F&F.
You must have a private pipeline of info coming from the DOJ then.


"For the first time, federal officials also revealed that Terry and the elite squad of federal agents initially fired bean bags -- not bullets -- at the heavily armed drug cartel crew in the mountains south of Tucson in December 2010. During the exchange, Terry was shot and killed."

[waxthis]

You must have a private pipeline of info coming from the DOJ then.


"For the first time, federal officials also revealed that Terry and the elite squad of federal agents initially fired bean bags -- not bullets -- at the heavily armed drug cartel crew in the mountains south of Tucson in December 2010. During the exchange, Terry was shot and killed."



Would not surprise me........[Coffee]

[Scanker19]

Someone on Yahoo said it was incase the Illegals got hungry....

[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL][ROFL3][ROFL2][ROFL1]

[theGinsue]

At least they didn't resort to throwing staplers at them...

Depends on the threat matrix..... Staplers are a whole level up the pyramid. [Coffee]

[Jumpstart]

Someone on Yahoo said it was incase the Illegals got hungry....

[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL][ROFL3][ROFL2][ROFL1]

Ha ha. Next thing you know, the BP will only be allowed defend the USA against the cartels with water balloons or super soakers. They are in the desert and all.

[Irving]

I seem to remember Terry using bean bags as well from when this story first broke. There has to be a beaner joke in here some where.

[Great-Kazoo]

I seem to remember Terry using bean bags as well from when this story first broke. There has to be a beaner joke in here some where.

This, again Old news.

[Great-Kazoo]

You must have a private pipeline of info coming from the DOJ then.


"For the first time, federal officials also revealed that Terry and the elite squad of federal agents initially fired bean bags -- not bullets -- at the heavily armed drug cartel crew in the mountains south of Tucson in December 2010. During the exchange, Terry was shot and killed."




Maybe in this news story. The bean bag use has and was reported months ago. Stop surfing porn and pay attention.
What do you think was the major push for F&F????????????
Border agent uses bean bag and "Undocumented, ILLEGAL Cartel" guys return fire with AK's that were pipe lined via F&F.

[clublights]

Maybe in this news story. The bean bag use has and was reported months ago. Stop surfing porn and pay attention.
What do you think was the major push for F&F????????????
Border agent uses bean bag and "Undocumented, ILLEGAL Cartel" guys return fire with AK's that were pipe lined via F&F.

WHoa Bro Calm down


I've been following F&F for a year and a half now .. and this was the first time I caught the bean bag part.

[Longnecktipper]

For Mexican drug cartels don't you use refried bean bags ?

[MrPrena]

If you vote for Obama and his half wit politically correct crew in November you are a complete idiot. Rant over for now.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/09/justice-unseals-indictment-charging-five-in-brian-terry-death/?intcmp=trending

I just don't get this.

IF government has has resources (which we do by labor allocation), any conflicting boarder should be guarded like a DMZ.



ETA:

Sure! Mexico and US are trading countries, and allies. So are South Korea and Japan.
Our boarder should be guarded like how South Korean guards their small dinky little island called Dokdo.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/dokdo_or_takeshima.html

[Great-Kazoo]

WHoa Bro Calm down


I've been following F&F for a year and a half now .. and this was the first time I caught the bean bag part.


Calm down? Bro??? WTF we related? Im not agitated, just shinning some light in to areas you may have over looked. The .gov surely has.

That's because until the investigation regarding origin of gun, it was a separate incident. Once the AK used in the agents death was traced back to a F&F operation each incident not considered to be tied in to each other, started to fall in to place.

There are numerous investigations going on in every municipality, every day, across the nation, very few if any ever connect to something else. Like Bundy, Gacey or some of the CA serial killings each body was thought to be separate incidents. Once a good investigator starts digging small bits of evidence here and there add up.

What happens to the F&F deal is anyone's guess. Like other failed covert operations funded by someone in .gov, eventually some lower echelon person will fall on their sword and take one (unwillingly) for the team.
Holder will walk or resign before november if not end of year, maybe.

[Jumpstart]

Maybe in this news story. The bean bag use has and was reported months ago. Stop surfing porn and pay attention.
What do you think was the major push for F&F????????????
Border agent uses bean bag and "Undocumented, ILLEGAL Cartel" guys return fire with AK's that were pipe lined via F&F.

Oh, just in this news story. (insert eye roll)
I too have followed F and F and this is the first I have heard that bean bags were used in this incident. Maybe that is why in the story it read "For the first time federal officials revealed"
Also, the push for F and F was the death of a federal agent, not because they were using bean bags in the field.

[funkymonkey1111]

Also, the push for F and F was the death of a federal agent, not because they were using bean bags in the field.

thanks for that nugget--do you really believe anyone here (or anyone else?) believes the purpose of the gunwalker program was border patrol agents use bean bags?

[Jumpstart]

thanks for that nugget--do you really believe anyone here (or anyone else?) believes the purpose of the gunwalker program was border patrol agents use bean bags?

No I don't. That was the point. You missed it.

[Great-Kazoo]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/us/border-patrol-terry-indictments/index.html



This shooting was on / off radar and talked about on Peter Boyles show along with mention on a few different firearm web sites. The shooting happened, some info got out through ANONYMOUS SOURCES then either fell off radar or the DOJ shut everyone up. So while you guys are doubting me, here are confirmed dates of incident
The feds just UNSEALED this info.
It's been out there and here are some excerpts with (OMG) Dates, from 2010.

Federal authorities unsealed Monday an indictment charging five men in the death of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and offering up to $1 million for information leading to the arrest of the four men still at large. The investigation into the December 2010 killing revealed the existence of a botched federal operation that had sought to investigate U.S.-Mexican arms trafficking and led to the historic vote by the House of Representatives that found U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/27/what-to-know-about-eric-holder/) in contempt of Congress.


A brief history of 'Fast and Furious'
A federal grand jury in the District of Arizona handed up the 11-count indictment November 7. It alleges that, on December 14, 2010, five of the defendants (Manuel Osorio-Arellanes, Jesus Rosario Favela-Astorga, Ivan Soto-Barraza, Heraclio Osorio-Arellanes and Lionel Portillo-Meza) were involved in a firefight with Border Patrol agents during which Terry was fatally shot.

[funkymonkey1111]

No I don't. That was the point. You missed it.

your point is to state the obvious? who was the federal agent that died?

[Great-Kazoo]

Oh, just in this news story. (insert eye roll)
I too have followed F and F and this is the first I have heard that bean bags were used in this incident. Maybe that is why in the story it read "For the first time federal officials revealed"
Also, the push for F and F was the death of a federal agent, not because they were using bean bags in the field.

I did not say it was because of bean bags in the field. That hornets nest has been stirred after Terry's death as some LE's and members of congress wanted to know why their guys were using Less Than Lethal rounds.
See my previous post why "FOR THE FIRST TIME is being used.
Go back through the web, READ the info out there.

You are aware of this story, maybe not, as the media in CO carried little if any of it after Boyles insinuated Ritter and others charged Voorhis to cover their asses.
Customs Enforcement Senior Special Agent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Agent) Cory Voorhis

[Jumpstart]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/us/border-patrol-terry-indictments/index.html



This shooting was on / off radar and talked about on Peter Boyles show along with mention on a few different firearm web sites. The shooting happened, some info got out through ANONYMOUS SOURCES then either fell off radar or the DOJ shut everyone up. So while you guys are doubting me, here are confirmed dates of incident
The feds just UNSEALED this info.
It's been out there and here are some excerpts with (OMG) Dates, from 2010.

Federal authorities unsealed Monday an indictment charging five men in the death of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and offering up to $1 million for information leading to the arrest of the four men still at large. The investigation into the December 2010 killing revealed the existence of a botched federal operation that had sought to investigate U.S.-Mexican arms trafficking and led to the historic vote by the House of Representatives that found U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/27/what-to-know-about-eric-holder/) in contempt of Congress.


A brief history of 'Fast and Furious'
A federal grand jury in the District of Arizona handed up the 11-count indictment November 7. It alleges that, on December 14, 2010, five of the defendants (Manuel Osorio-Arellanes, Jesus Rosario Favela-Astorga, Ivan Soto-Barraza, Heraclio Osorio-Arellanes and Lionel Portillo-Meza) were involved in a firefight with Border Patrol agents during which Terry was fatally shot.


Yeah, we know, and we've known about F and F for a while now. I (we) just haven't heard about the use of non-lethal bean bags used in the firefight. I didn't see anything from your post(s)- evidence to suggest that this key fact in the case was "old" news. If I over looked the bean bag angle and it is indeed old "old news" feel free to point it out.

**Has anyone else heard of the use of the bean bags in this incident before these recent indictments came out, or just Jim?

[Ronin13]

Yeah, we know, and we've known about F and F for a while now. I (we) just haven't heard about the use of non-lethal bean bags used in the firefight. I didn't see anything from your post(s)- evidence to suggest that this key fact in the case was "old" news. If I over looked the bean bag angle and it is indeed old "old news" feel free to point it out.

**Has anyone else heard of the use of the bean bags in this incident before these recent indictments came out, or just Jim?

Maybe Jim has access to info we don't? [Tooth]
I have been following this since I heard of Terry's death and this is honestly the first I've ever heard of less-than-lethal rounds being used by BP during this instance. I've heard of them using them in the past (more from this year than anything) but never heard of their employment in 2010... Stupid if you ask me. Reminds me of the conversation they had in Bad Boys II where Martin Lawrence says he's shoot a guy in the leg because 'you don't have to kill everyone.' Well in this case you do... Kill 'em all and let God sort them out, that's my Border fix! [Mad]

[Sharpienads]

I used to think the Soviets and the East Germans were wrong for securing their borders with military...

Maybe they had it right all along.

:-/

I guess it just depends on which way the guns are pointing. In or out.


Maybe they thought they were playing cornhole.

I love that game!


Someone on Yahoo said it was incase the Illegals got hungry....

[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL][ROFL3][ROFL2][ROFL1]

Oh I see, you can get away with it because of your minority status. But if I said it... j/k, that was freaking hilarious.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, we know, and we've known about F and F for a while now. I (we) just haven't heard about the use of non-lethal bean bags used in the firefight. I didn't see anything from your post(s)- evidence to suggest that this key fact in the case was "old" news. If I over looked the bean bag angle and it is indeed old "old news" feel free to point it out.

**Has anyone else heard of the use of the bean bags in this incident before these recent indictments came out, or just Jim?

Is there any other leg work you would like me to do for you, since you seem to have difficulty locating anything other then current events?? Since i have linked to 2 articles regarding Bean Bag / Less than lethal dated way before your enlightenment any other questions regarding the JUST RELEASED info you would like me to find for you.

Here is Tom Tancedo's write up about the bean bag debacle. This one is from 2010.
http://www.wnd.com/2010/12/240945/


Please Note the DATE of the article PUBLISHED 3/3/2011

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/03/fbi-report-raises-concerns-border-agents-facing-bullets-bean-bags-609544203/

Just a snippet from a 1 year plus old article.



Although it’s not clear how many, if any, border patrol units were ordered to carry the non-lethal beanbag ammunition, one expert insists the order has been applied to at least all BORTAC teams in Arizona – if not the entire Border Patrol.
“That order stemmed from the incident on the El Paso-Juarez border in which an agent discharged a sidearm to defend himself from rock throwers,” said Andy Ramirez, founder of the advocacy group Friends of the Border Patrol. Ramirez was referring to a June shooting (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/09/mexican-teen-killed-border-known-juvenile-smuggler-source-says/) that left a 15-year-old Mexican boy dead.
Mexico was outraged at the incident, so Victor Manjarrez Jr., then chief of Border Patrol’s Tuscon sector, “acquiesced by ordering agents to use non-lethal loads,” Ramirez said.

[Ronin13]

Is there any other leg work you would like me to do for you, since you seem to have difficulty locating anything other then current events??

Just a snippet from a 1 year plus old article.

Although it’s not clear how many, if any, border patrol units were ordered to carry the non-lethal beanbag ammunition, one expert insists the order has been applied to at least all BORTAC teams in Arizona – if not the entire Border Patrol.
“That order stemmed from the incident on the El Paso-Juarez border in which an agent discharged a sidearm to defend himself from rock throwers,” said Andy Ramirez, founder of the advocacy group Friends of the Border Patrol. Ramirez was referring to a June shooting (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/09/mexican-teen-killed-border-known-juvenile-smuggler-source-says/) that left a 15-year-old Mexican boy dead.
Mexico was outraged at the incident, so Victor Manjarrez Jr., then chief of Border Patrol’s Tuscon sector, “acquiesced by ordering agents to use non-lethal loads,” Ramirez said.

I am not meaning to be a dick here, Jim, but you've got a great side-step routine... We're all saying "This is the first we've heard of the use of bean bag rounds in the BRIAN TERRY incident." You keep refuting that by saying "do research" but then when you present things not one of them mentions the Terry murder... your snipet says "border patrol units were ordered to carry the non-lethal beanbag ammunition" carry and use are two different things. So again, this is the first I've ever heard of bean bag rounds being employed in an obvious lethal force issue (IE: The murder of Brian Terry), but I have known for a long time that most LE agencies utilize bean bag rounds. I think you may be confused, we're not arguing that the BP has less-than-lethal rounds, we're saying this article is the first instance where it's said that they were used by Terry during the incident in which he was killed.

ETA: I'm just going to throw in this little obligatory mic drop.

[Jumpstart]

I am not meaning to be a dick here, Jim, but you've got a great side-step routine... We're all saying "This is the first we've heard of the use of bean bag rounds in the BRIAN TERRY incident." You keep refuting that by saying "do research" but then when you present things not one of them mentions the Terry murder... your snipet says "border patrol units were ordered to carry the non-lethal beanbag ammunition" carry and use are two different things. So again, this is the first I've ever heard of bean bag rounds being employed in an obvious lethal force issue (IE: The murder of Brian Terry), but I have known for a long time that most LE agencies utilize bean bag rounds. I think you may be confused, we're not arguing that the BP has less-than-lethal rounds, we're saying this article is the first instance where it's said that they were used by Terry during the incident in which he was killed.

This.

[Great-Kazoo]

This.


This story Dated 3/2011 2nd paragraph mentions Terry and bean bag policy. I have been stating it is old news yet you insist ITS NEW how did i hear about it "This info has only been released"
I have 2 links dated 2010 & 2011 clearly mentioning bean bag & Terry. Your standing by the statement "this is NEW, Unreleased" is proven incorrect by the stories again i linked to.
You say potato i say potatoe. Either way i stand by my statement what has been released recently is now new. The Media has been brushing the Terry incident under the carpet since it happened. See how many MSM stories are out there when a BP agent shoots someone, plenty of press. This administration and the media have been in bed together putting anything anti LE and military in the forefront, neglecting the truth. Hopefully this pres is 1 termed and mittens will be our next headache.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/03/fbi-report-raises-concerns-border-agents-facing-bullets-bean-bags-609544203/
The controversy over the agency’s “bean bag” policy began in the days following the Dec. 14 killing of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and has escalated recently as more information is uncovered in the investigation of the fatal shooting.

[funkymonkey1111]

I am not meaning to be a dick here, .


sure you were.

from the fox story:

"When the suspected aliens did not drop their weapons, two Border Patrol agents deployed ‘less than lethal' beanbags at the suspected aliens,” according to a FBI search warrant request filed in the U.S. District Court in Tucson on Dec. 29. “At this time, at least one of the suspected aliens fired at the Border Patbrol agents. Two Border Patrol agents returned fire, one with his long gun and one with his pistol. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was shot with one bullet and died shortly after.”


Remember, reading is your friend.