Did You Know: TABOR Unconstitutioality Lawsuit

[theGinsue]

So today I dropped by the El Paso County website and saw something I hadn't heard about.

This may be old news for many of you as this lawsuit was filed in May 2012, but it was news to me. I searched the forums and found nothing previously posted on this (unless it occurred in the data loss area of the Great CO-AR15 Crash of 2012). It's quite possible that this case has already run it's course, but given the speed (or lack thereof) of our Judicial system, I'm inclined to believe this is still an active case.

It seems many of our states elected officials are so peeved about the citizens of this great state deciding for themselves to put shackles on the money grubbing/tax collecting vermin that they've brought a lawsuit claiming TABOR is unconstitutional.

The gist of the lawsuit is that Costitutionally are to be ruled (we word, not theirs) by a "Representative Democracy" which is Cnstitutionally allowed to tax the citizens at THEIR discretion, not the citizens. Their claim is that "Direct Democracy" (where the citizens get to vote directly and not via an elected representative) is unconstitutional and since this is how TABOR became law, it is unconstitutional.

Maybe they missed the beginning of the Constitution where it says "We the People". They must have also misunderstood President Lincoln in his Gettysburg Address when he stated "...to ensure the survival of America's representative democracy, that the "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Here's the El Paso County website link to the document filed with the courts:
http://www.elpasoco.com/Documents/Tabor%20lawsuit%2011-cv-1350-WJM%205-23-11.pdf

Someone OD me on Thorazine as the lunatics are surely in control of the asylum.

[SNAFU]

Course they forgot the words to the "Pledge of Allegence" too

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


http://bellpolicy.org/node/1196

[theGinsue]

Interesting; only one comment.

[Irving]

I'm too busy with other things to fully express my anger about this. Would you mind doing it for me Thomas?

[Troublco]

Another example of the arrogance of the Elitists. How dare the unwashed masses believe that they could possibly think for themselves? They are merely backward children, and we must think for them.

This is another example that shows that a great deal of reining in is needed...and the truth of that line from the movie, the Patriot, where the lead character says something to the effect of "an elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as a King".

[theGinsue]

I'm too busy with other things to fully express my anger about this. Would you mind doing it for me Thomas?

Yep; got you covered.


Patrick -so true!

[roberth]

Just reading the first 3 parts makes me mad, full of lies and misrepresentations.

TABOR is great for the citizen and these bastards are pissed that we curtailed their spending. Look at the sponsors, how many are from the teachers union. Almost everyone from any State/County Board of Education is in the pocket of the teachers union.

Section 3


3. Since the passage of TABOR in 1992, the State of Colorado has experienced a
slow, inexorable slide into fiscal dysfunction. Deterioration of the state’s funding base has been
slowed by many attempts to patch, cover over, or bypass the straightjacket of TABOR.
However, events have demonstrated that a legislature unable to raise and appropriate funds
cannot meet its primary constitutional obligations or provide services that are essential for a
state.

Listen to their pathetic crying, buncha whiny liberal elitist maggots. I don't think more administration is essential to the state and that is exactly where most additional education funding goes. They think they should be allowed to impose taxes at will, they already twisted taxes into fees which aren't regulated.

TABOR is the only thing standing between the us and this state turning into another Kalifornia. We meet the needs just fine, they just want to go overboard on spending like the USG.

[UncleDave]

The Constitution does not apply here, because this is a local matter not federal. A referendum is a perfectly legal and recognized process for deciding a matter. Since it does not violate or abridge any federal powers, they are pissing in the wind.

[roberth]

More


57. The Courts of the United States have jurisdiction to determine whether TABOR
violates the requirement that Colorado have a Republican Form of Government prescribed by
Article IV, Section 4, of the Constitution of the United States, the “Guarantee Clause,” and the
Enabling Act, and that such conflict compels invalidation of TABOR under the Supremacy
Clause.
58. The Courts of the United States have jurisdiction to determine whether a state is
complying with federal statutes and, particularly, the statute (the Enabling Act) under the terms
of which Congress authorized the creation of the State of Colorado and its admission to the
Union.
59. The Courts of the United States have jurisdiction to determine whether the
citizens of the State of Colorado are being denied the equal protection of the laws because
Colorado now fails to provide a Republican Form of Government.The United States is just that, the United States. We're not a collective named the Federal Government, we're 50 separate states united together under specified provisions contained in the constitution.

This lawsuit is also trying to eliminate the distinction between the Federal Government and the State Government and merge us into the Federal Government.

States should be unique save the provisions in the Constitution. That way we we have a choice about where we want to live. If we all fall under the purview of the Federal Government our individual state identity is removed and so are our choices of where to live.

Remember, the larger the government the smaller the citizen. The goal of these people is to make us subjects. I hope that voting will be enough to change the course of our nation, if not we're in for a really bad time.

[josh7328]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation Under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Fixed it for you.

[lpgasman]

Fixed it for you.

Thank you, let's quote the whole pledge. Oh right its not PC.

[Zombie Steve]

They bypassed TABOR several years ago with referendums C and D (one passed, one didn't... don't remember which was which). It was the typical funny dog and pony show - "We're going to help roads, bridges, schools and infrastructure without any new taxes!!!". Well, they were right. There wasn't any new taxes. Citizens just didn't get a TABOR refund any more. [Mad]

As soon as it passed, there was a big fight as to where all the money would go. I'm sure they thought about roads, bridges, schools and infrastructure for at least 5-10 minutes...


Quirky as the guy is... TABOR (Taxpayer Bill Of Rights) was the brainchild of Doug Bruce. Everyone hates the guy and tries to railroad him as much as possible, but he's the only guy I can think of that's even tried to achieve some kind of fiscal responsibility in this state.

[theGinsue]

Quirky as the guy is... TABOR (Taxpayer Bill Of Rights) was the brainchild of Doug Bruce. Everyone hates the guy and tries to railroad him as much as possible, but he's the only guy I can think of that's even tried to achieve some kind of fiscal responsibility in this state.
Agreed. I don't care much for Douglas Bruce "the person", but Douglas Bruce "the citizens watchdog" is someone I fully support.

[Zundfolge]

So in a nation founded upon the notion that there should be "No taxation without representation" it would be "unconstitutional" to write a law that enforces that requires government to get permission from the people for more taxes?

Democrats ... I used to think they were just stupid and not evil, but frankly I don't see how they aren't both.

[SA Friday]

The Constitution does not apply here, because this is a local matter not federal. A referendum is a perfectly legal and recognized process for deciding a matter. Since it does not violate or abridge any federal powers, they are pissing in the wind.

Mike drop, BAM.

[Skully]

Yeah this is crap that gets me all fired up, but I am lost for making a coherent intelligent remark. Most of you have already made statements that I feel is right on par.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was the lack of media coverage on it. Until it was posted here I did not even know it existed. Wonder how that happened since the media loves this kind of stuff.

[roberth]

Yeah this is crap that gets me all fired up, but I am lost for making a coherent intelligent remark. Most of you have already made statements that I feel is right on par.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was the lack of media coverage on it. Until it was posted here I did not even know it existed. Wonder how that happened since the media loves this kind of stuff.

The media won't cover it b/c it is something they want and they don't want the word to get out until the ruling is made in their favor.

[Inconel710]

Wow - by that logic, every referendum EVER PASSED has to be invalidated. I wonder if they're ready to dial back the state constitution to day one?

[Waywardson174]

Just so you guys know, current SCOTUS precedent says that whether a state government meets the "democratic form" requirement is not justiciable because it is classified as a political question. SCOTUS can always change its own rules, but if they dont, then all these guys are doing, is wasting money.

[RblDiver]

Another round of this fight happened on Monday. We the People are too dumb to make our own decisions on taxation amirite?

http://gazette.com/tabor-lawsuit-gets-round-in-court-but-decision-unlikely-for-months/article/1506679

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53085280#.UkMNU4ZwpyU

[merl]

The Constitution does not apply here, because this is a local matter not federal. A referendum is a perfectly legal and recognized process for deciding a matter. Since it does not violate or abridge any federal powers, they are pissing in the wind.

Yep, not conflicting With the US constitution, states can govern themselves with a pure democracy if they desire it. States would still elect representatives for the federal government but for purely internal affairs we could go to pure democracy if we really wanted. In the case of taxes we apparently wanted to.

[sellersm]

merl is right: NYC has a King, NY State has a Dictator, IL has Thugs...

[davsel]

My wife is employed by the city, and has attempted to convince me to vote "yes" to past tax increases.
Her boss has "rallied the troops" to go out and convince the citizens of the great need, or the end of the city is imminent.

Well, the tax increases failed to pass, the city stopped mowing some weeds and removed some trash cans from city parks for a while, and somehow, someway, the city made cuts that allowed the world to continue functioning.
AMAZING!

The real issue is the city knows they cannot pay out on the pension promises they have made over the years.
The bill is coming due, and they won't be able to pay. In fact, their motive is to protect their own sweet pensions.

[sellersm]

The real issue is the city knows they cannot pay out on the pension promises they have made over the years.
The bill is coming due, and they won't be able to pay. In fact, their motive is to protect their own sweet pensions.

<scratches head>Gee, where have I heard that before?

[TFOGGER]

The problem with Socialism is that eventually, you run out of other people's money- Margaret Thatcher

[Dlesh123]

I was surprised this did not come up in the recall. Our favorite RECALLED Senate President was a party to this lawsuit. Another one of his brilliant liberal ideas. Can't get enough money to implement all of their agenda, so get rid of the limits, they know better than we do what do do with our money. Another area he did not listen to the People.

[DavieD55]

Eventually Colorado will go the same way as kali and the city of detroit... If people don't wake up by 14 I will be out of here. I sure hate to see people let the progressives and leftists destroy this awesome state.

[buckshotbarlow]

nothing to see here, move along, move along...