School me on home defense shotguns

[birddog]

Im used to an 870 express super mag for hunting. Should I stick with one of these or go with something else? I would like to spend between 300 and 500 bones. Thanks for the help guys. My first baby is due next month so I figure its time for a new gun!!

[Fentonite]

Here's a good one:
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=55589&highlight=1300

As far as popularity goes, I'm in the minority, but I like the Win 1300 Defenders. Rem 870's and then Mossy 500's are more popular. I carried an 870 for years on the job, and it's solid. I prefer the Defender. Its Speedfeed system is much faster and smoother (for me) than either of the others, and I've shot lots of them all. If pulling / exerting a rearward pressure on the fore end when you fire, the remmy will require that you release rearward pull and push forward on the slide momentarily before you can then again pull rearward to rack the action. The Defender will immediately allow the fore end to slide back, and if you're already exerting rearward pressure, it just seems to rack itself. Very fast. Granted, I believe the Mossy has the best safety placement.

Now, if someone reading this works for Remington or Mossberg, don't get all pissy like the guy from Olympic did, this is just my opinion, after a bunch of beer.

If you live near me, I'll let you try out the action on all three, decide for yourself.

[birddog]

Here's a good one:
http://www.ar-15.co/forums/showthread.php?t=55589&highlight=1300

As far as popularity goes, I'm in the minority, but I like the Win 1300 Defenders. Rem 870's and then Mossy 500's are more popular. I carried an 870 for years on the job, and it's solid. I prefer the Defender. Its Speedfeed system is much faster and smoother (for me) than either of the others, and I've shot lots of them all. If pulling / exerting a rearward pressure on the fore end when you fire, the remmy will require that you release rearward pull and push forward on the slide momentarily before you can then again pull rearward to rack the action. The Defender will immediately allow the fore end to slide back, and if you're already exerting rearward pressure, it just seems to rack itself. Very fast. Granted, I believe the Mossy has the best safety placement.

Now, if someone reading this works for Remington or Mossberg, don't get all pissy like the guy from Olympic did, this is just my opinion, after a bunch of beer.

If you live near me, I'll let you try out the action on all three, decide for yourself.

Well Im not too near the denver metro but I have also had a bunch of beers. Love beer! What do you like about the mossy safety? I know its thumb actuated. Im used to the 870 but if there is a good reason for the mossy safety then mayby I can learn that if it really is better.

I do see what you are saying on the action and could see how it would be better if it was ready to fire prior to forcing the slide back forward again. Im have fired my 28" remmy at birds in quick sequence so I kind of know what you are saying but it doesn't seem to bother me too much.

Thanks for the input.

[Fentonite]

I find the Mossy safety is in a more natural position to activate without changing hold, and tends to keep your thumb up on the tang instead of wrapped around, where it can bump your nose. Not an issue for experienced shooters, but many a noobie (student) becomes gun-shy after banging their nose with their thumb wrapped around. Also, students tend to have to look for the safety on the other two, but use it instinctively on the mossy, since the thumb rests on it. I have Mossy 500's in 20ga for my wife due to this.

If you've got the 870 action down to second nature, it probably makes seen to stick with what you know. Those were just my preferences and opinions. Practice with whatever you get, it'll do fine.

[kidicarus13]

I like the Winchester 1300 more than the 870 or the Mossy also. The action is smooth as butta.

[DFBrews]

I find the Mossy safety is in a more natural position to activate without changing hold, and tends to keep your thumb up on the tang instead of wrapped around, where it can bump your nose. Not an issue for experienced shooters, but many a noobie (student) becomes gun-shy after banging their nose with their thumb wrapped around. Also, students tend to have to look for the safety on the other two, but use it instinctively on the mossy, since the thumb rests on it. I have Mossy 500's in 20ga for my wife due to this.

If you've got the 870 action down to second nature, it probably makes seen to stick with what you know. Those were just my preferences and opinions. Practice with whatever you get, it'll do fine.

I have the over sized safety button on my 870. As your finger goes into the trigger guard it takes the safety off. And it is not so big as to be pushed to the fire position with normal handling.

[funkymonkey1111]

i prefer the mossberg top safety to the 870 safety. I also prefer an autoloader--the 930 spx or 930sx.

the difference between the two is the stock. the 930 sx can be had for $579 at bud's-- a hair more than your budget, but suck it up and go with the autoloader.

here's the gunblast review of the 930spx. the action is the same, i believe.

http://gunblast.com/Mossberg-930SPX.htm

there simply isn't any reason not to go with an autoloader. there's the old wive's tales about autos not being reliable when your life is on the line--mularky. that's right up there with the .45 isn't accurate....

shoot one and see--you'll never bother with a pump again (unless you're one of those badasses that think racking a slide is going to give you an advantage against the bad guy)

[aahorn]

stick with a pump action shotgun with a full stock. make sure you get a flashlight on it.
i have a mossy 500 and love it, but if i had to go back and do it again i'd get a 870. IMO the 500's safety is horrendous. stock it came too tight to adjust, so i loosened the screw, but then the safety engaged itself from the recoil.. i ended up so annoyed with the stupid safety that i tightened it down in fire mode and now wont move (because the screw sucks and stripped so easily its garbage) other than that stupid screw/safety the gun is amazing

[aahorn]

there simply isn't any reason not to go with an autoloader. there's the old wive's tales about autos not being reliable when your life is on the line--mularky. that's right up there with the .45 isn't accurate....

shoot one and see--you'll never bother with a pump again (unless you're one of those badasses that think racking a slide is going to give you an advantage against the bad guy)

autoloaders are great, but you will pay a bit more. so if your trying to stay between 300-500 then you may not have money for a good light for it.

and yea racking the slide to scare people is just stupid [ROFL1]

[funkymonkey1111]

On Buckaroobonsai's recommendation i just bought an Elzetta flashlight mount--should be waiting on me when i get home--looking forward to getting it mounted tonight.

[birddog]

I feel that if you are racking the slide you are just telling the bad guy that you are not prepared and give you a second. Hopefully the first noise a bad guy hears from me is boom.

I think I will go with an 870 and light. Sounds just like what Im looking for. What lights and loads do you guys run? I assume you stack the loads for different effect from each round?

[JohnTRourke]

I feel that if you are racking the slide you are just telling the bad guy that you are not prepared and give you a second. Hopefully the first noise a bad guy hears from me is boom.

I think I will go with an 870 and light. Sounds just like what Im looking for. What lights and loads do you guys run? I assume you stack the loads for different effect from each round?

#00 buckshot
1 1/8oz loads (9 pellets)

you'll never remember what is in where, you have no idea what the threat is, etc.

just load it up with something super effective (00 buckshot)

[funkymonkey1111]

I have a Malkoff MD2 light with an M61 emitter for a light. Federal 00 8-ball low recoil--no other loads necessary or warranted.

[Great-Kazoo]

stick with a pump action shotgun with a full stock. make sure you get a flashlight on it.
i have a mossy 500 and love it, but if i had to go back and do it again i'd get a 870. IMO the 500's safety is horrendous. stock it came too tight to adjust, so i loosened the screw, but then the safety engaged itself from the recoil.. i ended up so annoyed with the stupid safety that i tightened it down in fire mode and now wont move (because the screw sucks and stripped so easily its garbage) other than that stupid screw/safety the gun is amazing

Remove safety, take the spring steel plate with the holes in it and open the hole that is located next to the screw hole. The holes allow the safety to be moved but not opened enough to lock the detent in to safe or fire. I did it to the last 3 500's i encountered and works like a charm, complete with screw set to correct tightness.

[HoneyBadger]

Something to consider: If you have a Mossy 500 and you want to put a pistol grip stock or an adjustable stock on it, the safety becomes a PITA. I just put one of these http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=40796/Product/KICKLITE-TACTICAL-STOCK on mine and moving the safety requires you to take your hand off the pistol grip for a second... Not something I am a huge fan of, but I just keep it with the safety off and the chamber empty.

FWIW, the Kicklite stock is awesome.

[Squeeze]

I am currently running the Mossberg SA-20 tactical for my all-around shotgun. It is light, fast, and slick for an autolaoder. Downside, is there are little to no accessories for it. Therefore I had to modify existing ones to make them work. Costly, but worth it. The shotgun by itself cost me $475 NIB from Green Mountain Guns.

[cofi]

i prefer .223 for home defense way less penetration then a 12 gauge, smaller package, way more capacity, less recoil

[ChunkyMonkey]

^^ huh??? [NoEvil]

[cofi]

^^ huh??? [NoEvil]
i just dont see the point of a hd shotgun

[funkymonkey1111]

i just dont see the point of a hd shotgun

you think a 5.56 going 3200 fps penetrates less than a round ball at 1325 fps?

[cofi]

you think a 5.56 going 3200 fps penetrates less than a round ball at 1325 fps?

For sure most tests ive seen 5.56 starts to breakup after the first sheet and wont go through 4 sheets(2 walls)

Here's a neat test showing 12 Guage has the most penetration by far

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetration-Analysis-Test-(Adpat)

[Great-Kazoo]

you think a 5.56 going 3200 fps penetrates less than a round ball at 1325 fps?


One of the reasons entry teams have gone from H&K MP5 9mm to SBR 5.56 is penetration. Great on threats yet penetration diminishes rapidly when hitting sheet rock, glass, furniture, bodies etc.

[Irving]

I think Box-of-truth has done tests like this.

EDIT: Tests on penetration between buckshot, bird shot, and then a separate test of 5.56 penetration.

[SideShow Bob]

If you can find one, an old Ithica model 37 ( wish I never sold mine years ago ) is fast on follow up shots, pull and hold the trigger down, shuck the action and when the round seats, the next shot is on it's way. You can empty the mag tube as fast as you can shuck the action.
As for the safeties, both the 870 and Ithica are not southpaw friendly. I always seem to push it toward the safe position while firing.
I will order a lefty safety for the next 870 if I get one.

[xring]

All good advice above. my preference is for the defender also. Noticably faster close to a semi. I prefer 20 gauge. Good luck finding a 20 defender. I like the 870 20 youth also. It comes with a 21" barrel and choate makes a extension for it. Cofi makes a good point about the 5.56 but look at the decibal levels. Shooting a 223 outside without hearing protection is painful. Inside... A 20 Has significantly lower DBs. I run slugs. no light tritrium bead.