Interesting look at why America is screwed

[jackthewall81]

Might be touchy for some of you baby boomers. But is none the less interesting.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/07/11/the-real-class-warfare-baby-boomers-vs-y

[aahorn]

when they were talking about drafting highschool grads into 1 year military service/2 year civilian service...

this is what we should be doing with people on unemployment.. down on luck? need some bucks between jobs? well there is some trash on the street, graffiti on the buildings. no more free money, you gotta do work to earn some money

[UncleDave]

He's right on the money. My old man was telling me this back in the early 80's. told me to make sure I take care of my own savings and investment for retirement, because when I got there his generation would have milked the system dry.

[flan7211]

What I find hilarious is you have all these 50+ conservatives complaining about the welfare state but wouldn't dare risk getting rid of it.

[Uberjager]

I wouldn't entirely blame the baby boomers the "Greatest" generation has fucked over America a good bit more.

[Zundfolge]

when they were talking about drafting highschool grads into 1 year military service/2 year civilian service...

this is what we should be doing with people on unemployment.. down on luck? need some bucks between jobs? well there is some trash on the street, graffiti on the buildings. no more free money, you gotta do work to earn some money
That would just morph into yet another program that turns the Fed.Gov into your mama and the recipients into glorified children suckling at her teat. It would also end up having an adverse effect on our military readiness as well.



No, we need to do away with ALL forms of welfare, assistance and subsidy. Period. Absolute and complete elimination of 90%+ of the functions of the Federal Government.

Once upon a time there used to be "Mutual Aid Societies" in pretty much ever community across America (we see the remnants of these once great organizations in The Elks, The Shriners, Rotary Clubs and the Oddfellows). We didn't have government run welfare we had Americans freely giving a hand to their fellow Americans in their time of need. We need to return to those days, we need to return to charity and not government administered entitlements.

Not only did these private charities work significantly more efficiently with the funds they had, they also firmed up the bonds between people ... they strengthened the American character and they didn't undermine the character and spirit of the very people they were tasked with helping.

When one man freely gives to another ... when the other receives humbly and with gratitude BOTH men are made better and neither man lives at the behest of the other.

It is the ONLY way we can again be called free men.

[flan7211]

It is the ONLY way we can again be called free men.[/quote]


Unfortunately free men aren't feed men. Most seem to want the .gov spoon over freedom.

[StagLefty]

So I paid SS taxes for 50 some years and now I shouldn't get any return ?
Also paid Medicare taxes and pay a monthly premium now to have Medicare insurance.

[flan7211]

So I paid SS taxes for 50 some years and now I shouldn't get any return ?
Also paid Medicare taxes and pay a monthly premium now to have Medicare insurance.


I think the point of the article is you'll get your return. The young will not.

[Mtn.man]

Younguns now days are lazy fucks, only like video games and free shit. Screw em draft em and make em work. Bring in some work camps. Hard labor then they will at least be able to MAYBE survive when the shithitsthefan.

[CrufflerSteve]

You realize all this talk about drafting the young & unemployed sounds an awful like FDR's programs like the WPA, CWA & CCC. I never knew the 'New Deal' was so popular here.

All this time when people talked about the NRA here I thought it was the group that liked guns not the program the Supremes struck down.

Steve

[Rooskibar03]

So when can I stop paying into the system I'll never get to use and start investing in myself?

Oh yeah, that wouldn't be good for the "collective" now would it?

[68Charger]

Isn't very "interesting", and is old news... but I agree that the younger professional welfare recipients have significantly added to the problem...

but I have interject what I think the "interesting" part may actually be...

DEATH PANELS- is Obamacare really an attempt to equalize/correct the baby boomer issue?

Do you kill them off quicker, to relieve the 'burden' they put on the system?

[Uberjager]

You realize all this talk about drafting the young & unemployed sounds an awful like FDR's programs like the WPA, CWA & CCC. I never knew the 'New Deal' was so popular here.

All this time when people talked about the NRA here I thought it was the group that liked guns not the program the Supremes struct down.

Steve

Definitely, "you can't have your cake and eat it too". The "I deserve social security/medicare, because I paid into it." is as bad as the welfare queens demandin' their bennies. The age at which you collect them should be the average life expectancy.

[StagLefty]

Definitely, "you can't have your cake and eat it too". The "I deserve social security/medicare, because I paid into it." is as bad as the welfare queens demandin' their bennies. The age at which you collect them should be the average life expectancy.

Guess I'll just go stick my head in the oven so I won't be a burden [Coffee]

[Uberjager]

Guess I'll just go stick my head in the oven so I won't be a burden [Coffee]

Just keep working until you're 76, and I'll keep working until I'm 91.[Abused]

[theGinsue]

Some of you fos just plain scare me.

Definitely, "you can't have your cake and eat it too". The "I deserve social security/medicare, because I paid into it." is as bad as the welfare queens demandin' their bennies.
Perhaps you fail to recall that the difference here is that one group worked hard to make something for themselves & had the .gov steal their hard earned incomes from them - money that they could have invested themselves for their own retirements. They EARNED their entitlements! The other group hasn't worked for jack & demands they get something for nothing simply because they misguidedly believe they are entitled to it.

Now, look at they two groups again & tell me which group seems to be financially better off; those who worked for it, or those who never did. I submit to you that the group with the best financial situation are the freeloaders.

Just give those that paid into the system our money back with a fair return for our investment and we'll be on our way.

[NitroxBoss]

Some of you fos just plain scare me.

Perhaps you fail to recall that the difference here is that one group worked hard to make something for themselves & had the .gov steal their hard earned incomes from them - money that they could have invested themselves for their own retirements. They EARNED their entitlements! The other group hasn't worked for jack & demands they get something for nothing simply because they misguidedly believe they are entitled to it.

Now, look at they two groups again & tell me which group seems to be financially better off; those who worked for it, or those who never did. I submit to you that the group with the best financial situation are the freeloaders.

Just give those that paid into the system our money back with a fair return for our investment and we'll be on our way.

Plus 1

Saying that stealing money paid in to the system over the years is the same as freeloading is just crazy talk.

[Delfuego]

Personally I dont think America is screwed.

I just think a bunch of you jag offs are fatalists, and wishing for the end of the world, rapture or zombie apocalypse.

We are the best nation ever devised. Bunch of fair weather pseudo patriots you are. Kiss my American ass.

Delfuego out...

[Uberjager]

Some of you fos just plain scare me.

Perhaps you fail to recall that the difference here is that one group worked hard to make something for themselves & had the .gov steal their hard earned incomes from them - money that they could have invested themselves for their own retirements. They EARNED their entitlements! The other group hasn't worked for jack & demands they get something for nothing simply because they misguidedly believe they are entitled to it.

Now, look at they two groups again & tell me which group seems to be financially better off; those who worked for it, or those who never did. I submit to you that the group with the best financial situation are the freeloaders.

Just give those that paid into the system our money back with a fair return for our investment and we'll be on our way.

I exaggerated a good bit, to stir the pot. However. the retiring at 65 and collecting benefits until 85 is absolute nonsense.

[jackthewall81]

I just quoted the article, no harm intended. I do not think America is screwed, we are just no longer one of a few world superpowers, we are now one of many. No need for people's panties to be in a bunch.. [Beer]

[HoneyBadger]

That would just morph into yet another program that turns the Fed.Gov into your mama and the recipients into glorified children suckling at her teat. It would also end up having an adverse effect on our military readiness as well.



No, we need to do away with ALL forms of welfare, assistance and subsidy. Period. Absolute and complete elimination of 90%+ of the functions of the Federal Government.

Once upon a time there used to be "Mutual Aid Societies" in pretty much ever community across America (we see the remnants of these once great organizations in The Elks, The Shriners, Rotary Clubs and the Oddfellows). We didn't have government run welfare we had Americans freely giving a hand to their fellow Americans in their time of need. We need to return to those days, we need to return to charity and not government administered entitlements.

Not only did these private charities work significantly more efficiently with the funds they had, they also firmed up the bonds between people ... they strengthened the American character and they didn't undermine the character and spirit of the very people they were tasked with helping.

When one man freely gives to another ... when the other receives humbly and with gratitude BOTH men are made better and neither man lives at the behest of the other.

It is the ONLY way we can again be called free men.

This. [Beer]

[Ronin13]

I've been paying into SS for almost 15 years now, since I started working at 14. I've been pretty much constantly employed since (with the exception of my Jr year of high school and my freshman year of college) and paying into the system. I realized years ago that there is a very good chance that I will never get social security benefits when I retire. I'm planning on paying my own way through retirement and not getting squat from any of these programs. Now, where I have mixed feelings is that if I'm not going to reap the benefits of SS when I retire, why should I have to contribute? But the flip side of that is that my parents (who are roughly 10 years or so from retirement age) will get SS when they retire, so paying in helps them. See where this makes for some confusion, I honestly would rather my SS deductions go to me for my own investments.

[Bitter Clinger]

I exaggerated a good bit, to stir the pot. However. the retiring at 65 and collecting benefits until 85 is absolute nonsense.

So ive never went with out a job for more than a month ( collectively ) since i was 17 years old. Im now 31. I wont be able to retire until my late 60's, possibly early 70's. So i dont deserve my fair share that I had stolen from me by the government? Bullcrap. You dont want us "youngins" collecting our fair share? Fine any one under 40 no longer should have to pay in.

And about the "lazy youngins" comment from someone. EVERY SINGLE GUY i work with over 50 are the laziest, most lacsidasial people i have ever worked with.

[encorehunter]

I exaggerated a good bit, to stir the pot. However. the retiring at 65 and collecting benefits until 85 is absolute nonsense.
So people who have been putting into social security for 30 years don't deserve $288,000 in return? That is saying they are making $1200 a month from social security, for 20 years. My father worked for 49 years putting into social security, and that is what he makes. If he would have been able to invest that money himself, he would be bringing home a hell of a lot more money, more than likely.

[Zundfolge]

So ive never went with out a job for more than a month ( collectively ) since i was 17 years old. Im now 31. I wont be able to retire until my late 60's, possibly early 70's. So i dont deserve my fair share that I had stolen from me by the government? Bullcrap. You dont want us "youngins" collecting our fair share? Fine any one under 40 no longer should have to pay in.
Its not a choice between whether we get the money we paid in back or not (I'm 42, almost 43), its a choice between whether we lose the money we've "invested" but the economy (and the nation) still exists, or we lose the money we've "invested" AND the economy (and the nation) no longer exist. The simple fact is that social security is unsustainable ... if you're under 60 you're probably completely screwed here, doesn't matter what "fix" they try or if they just decide to scrap the whole thing (I just don't want it to take out the entire economy).

If I have to lose the money I've put in social security but it means there's still an America, I can live with that (of course I'd like for them to stop stealing from me ASAP).

[waxthis]

Younguns now days are lazy fucks, only like video games and free shit. Screw em draft em and make em work. Bring in some work camps. Hard labor then they will at least be able to MAYBE survive when the shithitsthefan.

Oh so true!

[jackthewall81]

Oh so true!

Yup! Every single one of us are lazy and worthless! Sweet generalization, which is utterly wrong.

[Ronin13]

Yup! Every single one of us are lazy and worthless! Sweet generalization, which is utterly wrong.

Amen, I wanted to say something... not sure why I didn't. I see younger people working their asses off (granted not all of them) but also have seen older people who are just plain lazy. I know far more people under 30 who work hard and have proved more than their worth to society than I do people over 40 who do the same... Just saying.

[Fmedges]

I started reading this post, but then I got too lazy and qui..................

[Ridge]

The older generation went to school, bought new cars for a few thousand dollars, have a retirement plan and have a house, and tell us how we got things easy.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[jackthewall81]

So cares who ruined our country blah, blah, blah, the y generation is going to have to work their asses off to fix it.

[rockhound]

the work ethic in this country has certainly changed

I am not old by any means, but I am not young either,

at 43 i see an increase in the entitlement mentality in our young people.

the cost of propping up the non wage earners and the illegal aliens will eliminate anything you may have or may not have seen from SS

In my Grandfather's day you would personally be embarrassed to not have a job or support your family, your country,

in my father's day he would be embarrassed that his kids were not supporting their family, their country

our current day it is expected that the govt will take care of the family and feed them, the healthcare should be free, the education should be provided for by others, the rich should pay for everything the gov't provides to the non wage earners

don't get your panties in a wad when the older generation says the younger ones are lazy, it does not apply to all.

it is a general statement because it is generally true, if you are not one of the lazy then be proud, because as us older gens can tell you we see it with our own eyes. we have seen the past that you have not we have seen the country devolve into something that we do not recognize, changes that you cannot see because you were not there.

the younger generations is lazy, maybe it is because they are lazy, maybe it is because the rewards for hard work are not as they used to be.

it is true, making more money does not translate into the same increase in quality of life that it used to. in the 1950 a thousand dollar a year raise was wow a real raise. now it means $650 dollars a year take home, about $50 bucks a month.

yes you have to work harder, but working for it is the only way to stand up and be proud of what you have earned. taking it from the older generation who have worked for it is not the way to be a man, woman or american.

the costs to us hard working citizens from illegal immigration alone was $113 billion in 2010, the costs for unemployment benefits are $434 billion since 2008,

I say that we can go along way toward fixing the problems with this country by eliminating those costs.

the illegal labor could go meaning lower unemployment and making the unemployed work for their money would provide labor that we can't afford because we are paying for unemployment or just pure wellfare,

sure you can earn a check, but unless you are truly disabled then get off your butt and sweep the street, clean out a ditch, build a fence on the border, patch a truly disabled persons roof, something to contribute

[grrr]

don't get your panties in a wad when the older generation says the younger ones are lazy, it does not apply to all.

it is a general statement because it is generally true, if you are not one of the lazy then be proud, because as us older gens can tell you we see it with our own eyes. we have seen the past that you have not we have seen the country devolve into something that we do not recognize, changes that you cannot see because you were not there.

the younger generations is lazy, maybe it is because they are lazy, maybe it is because the rewards for hard work are not as they used to be.



And therein lies the problem with applying your limited experience to groups as a whole. I'm about your age, but I have to tell you, it's likely you have no damned idea what's generally true when it comes to young people. Statistically the vast majority of welfare recipients are single mothers. The large majority of food stamp recipients are under 18, elderly, or disabled. So I'm wondering where all these young people are taking advantage of entitlements if not from our two biggest social programs. Maybe it's in the military where 18 - 30 year olds make up more than 65% of active duty personnel.

[rockhound]

And therein lies the problem with applying your limited experience to groups as a whole. I'm about your age, but I have to tell you, it's likely you have no damned idea what's generally true when it comes to young people. Statistically the vast majority of welfare recipients are single mothers. The large majority of food stamp recipients are under 18, elderly, or disabled. So I'm wondering where all these young people are taking advantage of entitlements if not from our two biggest social programs. Maybe it's in the military where 18 - 30 year olds make up more than 65% of active duty personnel.


again you are singling out the ones that are making a difference. no on said the military guys are a drain.

also the fact that a lot of the welfare goes to single mothers highlights my point that my father and grandfather would be embarrassed if they or their children did not take care of their families, they did not become single mothers by themselves.

also you are talking welfare and food stamps, i was talking unemployment and entitlements to illegal aliens two totally different subjects.

it would not change my mind that if you are an able bodied person receiving a govt unemployment check or welfare for no reason other than you don't have a job then get up get dressed and earn that check by doing something for the tax payers that are providing that check.

[grrr]

I didn't single out anybody. To make the statement that something is "generally true" without anything but your own anecdotal evidence to back it up is pure idiocy.

[rockhound]

not using my evidence at all,

there is report after report of the increases in the govt assistance programs across the board, people running out of unemployment are then going to use other welfare means like disability.

they had a job and were employed, when did they become disabled? oh when the last check ran out.

it is a proven and true fact that illegal aliens are draining our govt money

their are 326,000 articles on google about the younger generation and what is giving them the idea that govt should supply them with everything

"The U.S. Census Bureau released statistics and figures shortly after the 2010 census showing that one in three young people were unemployed in 2010."

"in Florida, the number of people with no income beyond food stamps has doubled in two years and has more than tripled along once-thriving parts of the southwest coast. Patrick Markee makes a point that in the past ten years the amount of people receiving government aide has increased by 99%. That is statistically double than the year 2000."

[Irving]

our current day it is expected that the govt will take care of the family and feed them, the healthcare should be free, the education should be provided for by others, the rich should pay for everything the gov't provides to the non wage earners



If the government feeds you and your family, and takes care of health care, then what is the point of getting an education?

[roberth]

If the government feeds you and your family, and takes care of health care, then what is the point of getting an education?

Precisely.