Man killed by deputies

[BushMasterBoy]

Wrong guy shot by deputies. I posted both news reports, as the local news paper is very brief in comparison to the foreign report. Just be careful answering the door with a gun!




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174381/Andrew-Scott-Outrage-police-shoot-kill-wrong-man-hunt-attempted-murder-suspect.html



Local news report:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-15/news/os-lake-deputy-involved-shooting-20120715_1_lake-deputies-murder-shot-central-florida-news

[cofi]

Smart of them to just pound on someones door at 1 am without announcing that they were police.....I would have answered the door armed also

[sniper7]

Wow some hobs need yo be lost at a minimum. People have a right to self defense especially in the middle of the night.
one more reason to buy a peephole

[Chad4000]

very weird.. damn....

[Ronin13]

The video in that first article said that the man opened the door with the gun pointed at the cops... Now I'm thinking that maybe the deputies were not in uniform or they just reacted very quickly. Then the report went on to say that the man shot and killed had drugs in his apartment and had been arrested on drug charges before. Still, I agree with cofi, if you pound on my door at 1AM I'm gonna be packing.

[blacklabel]

Then the report went on to say that the man shot and killed had drugs in his apartment and had been arrested on drug charges before.

That's convenient. "We showed up to the wrong house and killed a guy but it's ok because he was a drug user."

[Whistler]

That's convenient. "We showed up to the wrong house and killed a guy but it's ok because he was a drug user."

Beat me to it.

[Ronin13]

That's convenient. "We showed up to the wrong house and killed a guy but it's ok because he was a drug user."

Yep, I can almost promise that they threw that in there to cast doubt on the whole "this is wrong" aspect of this blunder. [Mad]

[SNAFU]

Smart of them to just pound on someones door at 1 am without announcing that they were police.....I would have answered the door armed also

Why answer the door at all? Wndows open close too. Porch lights,,turn'em on?

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Byte Stryke]

Drugs and drug paraphernalia were found in Scott's apartment, and he has a record of drug arrests, the Sheriff's Office said, but he was not the suspect they were looking for in the attempted murder.

So After they knocked on the wrong Door, Killed an innocent man they raided his house....


police state

[UncleDave]

Shoot the wrong guy? No problem, just sprinkle some crack on 'em.

[BushMasterBoy]

This is a follow up link. The guy shot delivered pizzas for a living.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-16/news/os-leesburg-deputies-kill-wrong-man-20120716_1_deputy-involved-shootings-deputies-sheriff-s-office

[One Shot]

Wow, that sucks..

[Danimal]

Straight up murder. I hope the officers involved are made examples of. This can not become commonplace, or even remotely justifiable. You are a police officer, you are paid to protect and serve. No knocks, and crap like this are unacceptable. They need to be required to announce their presence and gain legal entry every time. This is straight up police state bullsh!t and needs to be smashed now.

With that said were it me answering the door, the cops would not have seen my gun until after they said they were cops. Pointing your gun or even showing it was a foolish and fatal error.

[Irving]

I answer my door just as armed at 1:00 pm as I do at 1:00 am. Actually, like others have said, I likely wouldn't answer at 1:00 am.

[theGinsue]

Let's we sure this thread doesn't turn into a cop bashing thread or it will be closed and removed.

All comments need to remain specific to THIS situation only!

[Clint45]

They were just pounding on random doors at a housing project at 0100? Because a suspect's vehicle was parked nearby? I see a problem with that.

[onebadfx4]

Let's we sure this thread doesn't turn into a cop bashing thread or it will be closed and removed.

All comments need to remain specific to THIS situation only!

Agreed...

Even though this guy was innocent and was killed (terrible BTW) there are many ways to answer the door packing heat. If you answer the door with a gun pointed at any cop, the natural reaction of said cop is to protect himself.

Innocent or not, if this guy pointed a gun at a cop at the door, he's an idiot.

Like it was said earlier, dont answer the door until you verify whose on the other side. or invest in a peep hole. A $10 dollar peep hole coulda saved this guys life.

[Whistler]

Agreed...

Even though this guy was innocent and was killed (terrible BTW) there are many ways to answer the door packing heat. If you answer the door with a gun pointed at any cop, the natural reaction of said cop is to protect himself.

Innocent or not, if this guy pointed a gun at a cop at the door, he's an idiot.

Like it was said earlier, dont answer the door until you verify whose on the other side. or invest in a peep hole. A $10 dollar peep hole coulda saved this guys life.

Probably best you do close this one it's starting to get silly.

[onebadfx4]

Probably best you do close this one it's starting to get silly.

Why is what I stated silly? Is it not the truth?

[Whistler]

Why is what I stated silly? Is it not the truth?

It's certainly one perspective. I'll leave it at that.

[alxone]

while i admit its not smart to point a gun at cops . its also not smart to knock on a door at 1am without clearly identifying your self , cop or not . both parties screwed up and it cost a life

[Great-Kazoo]

One day i'll tell you about me opening the door @ 4am with gun in hand and a cop was standing there. No bashing just facts.

FWIW: So much can happen so fast, it comes down to reaction to a threat.
I am not supporting or condemning the LE, as our family is still dealing with "reaction to threat"

[RMAC757]

What's the protocol for local police in dealing with a situation like this? Is there a defined procedure for not identifying yourself? If so what's the criteria? Just curious.

[waxthis]

[MOD: I specifically warned NOT to make general cop-bashing comments that weren't directly in reference to this reported situation. Next one earns a time-out]

[onebadfx4]

I'll leave it at both parties made dumb mistakes and a man lost his life because of said mistakes.

[Byte Stryke]

while i admit its not smart to point a gun at Turned out to be real cops . its also not smart to knock on a door at 1am without clearly identifying your self , cop or not . both parties screwed up and it cost a life
FTFY


http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/men-posing-dea-agents-breaking-homes/nPMnp/
http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/fake-dea-agents-invade-standish-home
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/18951657/2012/07/04/pastor-says-police-impostors-invaded-his-detroit-home
http://sport.topnewstoday.org/sport/article/2674130/
http://www.todaysthv.com/video/1316864125001/1/Men-stage-fake-police-raid-steal-thousands
http://articles.latimes.com/1994-12-21/local/me-11370_1_oxnard-police



Just as with any other situation, there are instigators and responders.

The instigators went to a mans door that had no reason to expect police, failed to announce themselves and took a mans life.

[RMAC757]

I'll leave it at both parties made dumb mistakes and a man lost his life because of said mistakes.

I may have to disagree with you here. It appears that one party made a mistake and the other used bad judgement. Thats a pretty big difference.

[onebadfx4]

I guess being L.E. myself, I tend to be bias. We'll agree to disagree.[Beer]

[Ronin13]

I guess being L.E. myself, I tend to be bias. We'll agree to disagree.[Beer]

I'm kind of confused... granted, this instance seems like both parties should share the fault- 1: Would it really be surprising for a LEO to knock on a door at an unreasonable hour to be met with someone who was just awoken and armed? 2: Why would you be pointing a gun at someone who just knocked on your door?Me, I would grab up the old pistol if someone did knock on my door at 1AM (especially the way PD does with their "the world is ending" style of knock [Coffee]), but I wouldn't be pointing it at them when opening, and the big caveat is that I have a peephole so I would try to confirm who it was first... I guess my point just went to shit huh?[Flower]

[BushMasterBoy]

The reason I posted this story, is so members here can educate themselves about what to do in a similar situation. I think the best option when one is found in this situation is to call 911! Don't answer the door! It could be a home invasion scenario in process. At least then the cavalry is on its way.

Feel free to add any positive comments that could help...

[Ronin13]

The reason I posted this story, is so members here can educate themselves about what to do in a similar situation. I think the best option when one is found in this situation is to call 911! Don't answer the door! It could be a home invasion scenario in process. At least then the cavalry is on its way.

Feel free to add any positive comments that could help...

That's a good idea, but I will say this- we've had a knock on our door, long time ago, at about 11PM, turns out a car took the corner too wide and wound up in the ditch. I don't think the guy and his wife would have liked standing on our doorstep (the wife was slightly injured) and then suddenly the police roll up thinking they're up to no good when they were just looking for help after an accident.

I dunno, each case is different, YMMV.

[BushMasterBoy]

I went looking for more on this story and found this...the video is scary. Glad I left Florida! Some guys robbing a internet cafe...

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-17/news/os-internet-cafe-patron-shot-robbers-20120714_1_patron-robbers-intruders

[cofi]

,,
I guess being L.E. myself, I tend to be bias. We'll agree to disagree.[Beer]

Have you ever knocked at a door without identifying yourself as a LEO????
Ive never heard of any police doing that.......
Maybe the guy should have looked through his peephole or whatever; but its not his fault that after getting woke up out of a dead sleep, he didn't do everything exactly right. Analyzing this poor mans decisions on your computer sipping coffee, I'm sure its easy to determine what he could have/ should have done, but actually being in the situation is different....btw I tried to answer the door with my pistol pointing out its prettty damn awkward I wonder if he didint just have his firearm pointed down at his side someone yelled gun and everyone got all excited.....unfortunately the other guy is dead so we only have one side of the story

[Danimal]

Back to the original post, the problem here is very basic. It boils down to innocent until proven guilty. The police made the judgement call that the criminal they were after was guilty and required deadly force. Then the real problem is that judgement was then applied to everyone in the area.

They should have isolated the area, called for backup, then began a methodical search of the area to find the criminal. Each time announcing their presence and requesting permission to search private residences. It sucks that real life is not like Miami vice but that is the way it is. You can't go pounding on people's doors in the middle of the night planning on shooting the first threat you come across.

I am not trying to bash cops in any way, I understand the difficulties they face and I respect their bravery when handling a situation such as this. Going door to door searching for a dangerous suspect sucks and directly puts you in harms way, but that is the job, and that is where preparation, planning and training would have prevented this. In my eyes this is no different than if cop in civilian clothes pulled a gun on someone without showing in any way that they were an officer, then shot someone who pulled a gun to protect themselves. The officers provoked the situation, did not identify themselves, and shot someone trying to defend themselves. They should be held accountable for their bad decisions.

[clublights]

Like it was said earlier, dont answer the door until you verify whose on the other side. or invest in a peep hole. A $10 dollar peep hole coulda saved this guys life.

A 10 buck Peep hole would have made ZERO difference I'm pretty sure ..

for one it was an apartment and they tend to not let you install those in your door willy nilly .... but then again I do not recall seeing an apartment WITHOUT a peep hole in the door..


but the main point is this.. I've NEVER seen an officer knock on a door and stand in front of said door. I'm pretty sure it's police academy 101 to not stand in front of the door when you knock on it.

hell just the other day I had to call DPD cuz the folks across the hall were having a domestic ... those officers did not stand in front of the door while knocking on it.

Peep holes do not see sideways.

[onebadfx4]

There are million scenarios and who the hell knows what really happened. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback it. I'm just saying both parties coulda done things different and the guy would probably still be alive. I announce myself when knocking on doors. Really loudly at night actually. In my home, you would never know I had a firearm when I answer the door but more times than none I do. At the end of the day when someone points a gun at me, I don't care what time it is, I see it as a threat to my life. The cops would have been crazy not too.

[josh7328]

My wife and I don't answer the door if we can't see who it is through our peep hole. If they are somebody we don't recognize, we don't answer. Any time we get a knock on the door, we NEVER even check the peep hole without a firearm. We are pretty jumpy about that sort of thing after some MAJOR incidents we have dealt with at the front door... But those stories warrant an entire new thread.