The Ban Stands

[Mazin]

Its going to be interesting to see how long it takes for Obumer to speak out on this.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/17/apnewsbreak-boy-scouts-reaffirm-ban-on-gays/

[TEAMRICO]

"They've chosen to teach division and intolerance."

Gee, that isn't the pot calling the kettle black!

Liberals are on big hypocrisy!

I don't have any right to be teaching my Cub Scouts anything about Religion, Sexual Orientation etc. That is the job of the PARENTS! I teach them skills, patriotism and TEAMWORK!!!!
Im getting tired of this crap!

[speedysst]

Well, Im glad they stood their ground. Between the gays and the anarchists pressuring everyone to think like they do, they are no better than any religion that does the same thing.

[jplove71]

The Boy Scouts of America is a PRIVATE organization and they have the RIGHT to do this! The LGBT "community" is always asking for tolerance but yet they won't tolerate others beliefs.

[Ronin13]

Good for them. This is a touchy subject. On the one hand, my uncle was gay so I am not intolerant of the gay community. But on the other hand, it's not my thing, I prefer not to be exposed constantly to their flamboyance (I can tolerate them but that shit is annoying!), and I'm sick of their agenda getting shoved into everyone's faces, living rooms, and lives. Good for you that you live your life on your terms, I don't go out exclaiming to everyone that I'm an avid shooter, or that I'm here and I love boobs, or what have you. So I'm glad that the boy scouts can be that one area where they won't invade and push their agenda on people who really are too young to give a crap.

[Rucker61]

. So I'm glad that the boy scouts can be that one area where they won't invade and push their agenda on people who really are too young to give a crap.

Not that you'll see this, but what is their agenda" that justifies exclusions as leaders in the scouts?

[Ronin13]

Not that you'll see this, but what is their agenda" that justifies exclusions as leaders in the scouts?

Teaching children all that stuff about "gay is okay" and similar, when it comes to moral standards and sexuality, that should be family, not society that introduces and informs children.

[Rucker61]

Teaching children all that stuff about "gay is okay" and similar, when it comes to moral standards and sexuality, that should be family, not society that introduces and informs children.

Not sure I totally agree, but I can certainly see your point and willingly accept your position as valid as mine. Do gay scout leaders spend that much time teaching moral standards or do they just teach scout stuff?

That said, I don't agree with the BSA position but it certainly is their right to hold to it.

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Scanker19]

Didn't they just have a softball game where no Straight people were allowed?

[Rucker61]

so using some peoples logic....

should the girl scouts allow male scout leaders? allow men to take the young impressionable girls overnight camping? and if not, why wouldnt that be ok?

letting someone who likes to have sex with that particular sex of person, spend alot of close up time with them, would be a recipe for trouble.

unless you are a flaming liberal, and then it all makes sense. we shove our views down your throat, you be tolerant of our views. but, we do not have to be tolerant of your views. libs suck.

Just to make sure I understand, you're saying that all hetero men want to sex all the time with all females, even children? Shouldn't the sanctity of marriage be enough constraint to allow male Girl Scout Leaders? We allow male coaches for female athletic teams, don't we?

[Clint45]

Fancy colored "neckerchiefs" are clearly a gay fashion accessory . . . if they were serious about no gays in Scouting they'd get rid of the colored neckerchiefs.

[HBARleatherneck]

so, its ok, in you liberal mind, for men to share a tent with a young girl in the middle of the woods? i just want to see where you stand, if we didnt allready know.

[sniper7]

Of all the gays I work with I don't know one that is out there during hunting season. I wasn't in the scouts but I know I wouldn't want one of them (at least the ones I've met) as my troop leader.

[brianakell]

Fancy colored "neckerchiefs" are clearly a gay fashion accessory . . . if they were serious about no gays in Scouting they'd get rid of the colored neckerchiefs.

Youre either joking, or an idiot.

As for gays in scouts, its supposed to be the same as fraternaties. Sex simply is not an issue, as its assumed not possible. Men and boys interact on teamwork, leadership, etc. There is no distractions, thus no issues. Take a small group, say 4 boys on a backpack trip for a week, 2 adults are required to go along. Say those 2 happen to be gay, and interested in each other. Now they are paying attention to each other instead of the boys. Problem. Not allowing gays eliminates this issue. Not being tolerant appears to be working well, as the number of molested boys from scout leaders is FAR lower than the catholic priests.

You want gays in scouts, fine, make it scouts, not boy scouts and girl scouts. Many other countrys I can think of has scouting across both genders, male and female leaders. 95% of the girls/women I have ever talked to would love to do the boy scouts thing, they feel girl scouts is lame, focused on stitching, and little craft crap instead of real adventure stuff. FWIW, sleeping arangements are still segregated with these scouts. That will not happen with boy scouts, it would have to be a new organization. Want to build it, let me know.

[Rucker61]

so, its ok, in you liberal mind, for men to share a tent with a young girl in the middle of the woods? i just want to see where you stand, if we didnt allready know.

Why not? Are you afraid of a girl scout in your tent? Are you saying that we shouldn't trust you in a tent in the woods with a girl scout? How many scout trips have just one adult and one child, anyway? Don't most scout camping trips include parents, too? Could a father share a tent with his daughter? Could a father share his tent with a daughter and her fellow scout? Can a single dad allow a sleepover in his house of his daughter and all her friends?

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[ANADRILL]

Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve....

[Rucker61]

see it all comes back to this.

whether you agree or not. and we can all believe what we want.
but,
a good portion of the world, still believes homosexuality is a perversion.
so, along that line of thinking, if they are perverted enough to stick another man in the butt, they might be perverted enough to try and stick a young impressionable child in the butt.




Homosexuality =/= pedophile, the same way that heterosexuality =/= pedophile.



The BSA, did the preemptive and smart thing. Now, its not an issue.



I guess all of the 5000 offenders mentioned in this article are heterosexual pedophiles, then.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/31/records-show-boy-scouts-f_0_n_1067244.html




Will there still be gay scouts and scout leaders? of course. But, its their organization, and they are running it for the benefit of the majority of the boys. Not for the minority or the scout leaders.

I agree that the organization should be run for the benefit of the scouts. I'm just not agreeing that not allowing gays is in their benefit.

[DD977GM2]

Do you all really worry about this?
I for one am more worried about the pedophile troop leader
molesting my kids then some kid who isnt sure if he is gay or not keeping that
secret to himself while he at Boy Scouts functions etc.
One reason I never let my kids join, not that they wanted to due to our
active lifestyle already in the outdoors.

Kids who are gay do not let that out of the bag for the majority and that majority is around 99.98%

[Rucker61]

Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve....

You mean that couple who brought evil into the world, raised a murderer, and let the rest of their kids have incestuous relationships? Those role models?

[DD977GM2]

Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve....

Shut up troll [ROFL1]

[DD977GM2]

You mean that couple who brought evil into the world, raised a murderer, and let the rest of their kids have incestuous relationships? Those role models?

There was no such thing as Adam and Eve. DUHHHHHHH

[DD977GM2]

Fancy colored "neckerchiefs" are clearly a gay fashion accessory . . . if they were serious about no gays in Scouting they'd get rid of the colored neckerchiefs.
[Beer][Beer][Beer][Beer][Beer]

Or get rid of scouts all together.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Not that you'll see this, but what is their agenda" that justifies exclusions as leaders in the scouts?

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?

Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

The Portland council recently had to pay $15M over one of these cases. My guess is they tried to strike a balance by keeping notes on registered Scouters who were "suspect" but tried to keep the notes private so as not to hurt anyone with unproven allegations -- but the sheer fact they kept notes and didn't warn people (including the eventual victim) was used against them.

Good for BSA National for once -- as a long time Scouter, I was afraid this big review would be used to by guys like Stephenson to push a change in policy to meet the demands of the politically correct.

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA -- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.

[Rucker61]

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?



In context, the reference was to the gay agenda in Ronin's comments




Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.



So what you're saying is the BSA doesn't want leaders who are pedophiles that prey on boys, so we should keep out all gay men as leaders, regardless? Just to be safe? What about those men who like grown women and young boys? Are they heterosexual or pedophilic homosexual? Sandusky was a long time practicing heterosexual; how good of a scout leader would he have made.

How does banning openly gay leaders protect children? I'd think an openly gay leader would be under enough scrutiny to prevent any incidents. A rule, and the BSA as a private organization is legally in the right, might keep openly gay men who are comfortable in their adult sexuality out of the Scouts but it won't keep secret pedophiles out.





I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA


Separate but equal, eh; where have I heard that before?




-- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.

Scouting is good for kids. I'm all for it. I'm curious about your last sentence: are you claiming that atheism and homosexuality are not legitimate lifestyles?

[clublights]

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?

Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

The Portland council recently had to pay $15M over one of these cases. My guess is they tried to strike a balance by keeping notes on registered Scouters who were "suspect" but tried to keep the notes private so as not to hurt anyone with unproven allegations -- but the sheer fact they kept notes and didn't warn people (including the eventual victim) was used against them.

Good for BSA National for once -- as a long time Scouter, I was afraid this big review would be used to by guys like Stephenson to push a change in policy to meet the demands of the politically correct.

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA -- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.
DING DING DING

+1

And a few comments on the BSA haters....admittedly bias as I am an Eagle.

Some of us were not lucky enough to have fathers that were into the outdoors thing. My pop was just not into it .. no fishing , no hunting no camping I went camping with my dad ONCE to the grand canyon and I'm pretty sure my uncle (his brother) forced him into it. My grandfather was a bit too old to be going backpacking in the back country or canoeing for 2 weeks down the green river. So I had scouting to turn to cuz I AM into those things ( well never been a hunter but all the other outdoorsy things ) Scouting taught me a lot of skills and life lessons I still use to this day
I went all the way from Cubs to Webelos to Eagle to Assistant Scoutmaster after I was 18 and still helped out my troop. I take pride in the fact that every time I go home to my parents I still see the church( which was also our meeting house) who's fence I rebuilt as my Eagle Project and take pride that 20 years later parts of it still stand ( the church has expanded a few times since then and has taken down sections of the fence for more building)

I had a really good Scouting "career" I did things others never get to.

I was charter member, and youngest member of the "official" Honor Guard for the Boulder Dam Area Council ( Las Vegas NV) I was technically below their cut off age but I impressed the adult council members so much that they brought me on anyways.( I was 11). We did all the parades, TV appearances, any where an Honor Guard was needed or desired for the Council. I still have the plaque that was given to each of us after that first year ( I was on it for 2.5 years till the Air Force moved us)

I went to Philmont Boy Scout Ranch
I was a patrol leader
I spent 2 weeks canoeing the Green River to the Colorado.
I made rank as fast as possible till Life and Eagle ( those took me longer.. HS football and girls became a huge distraction LOL)


Where else would I have gotten those kinds of experiences ?

[Ronin13]

Okay, let me clear the air here- I was never once referring to a gay scout leader being more prone to sexually assaulting scouts... Not once did I even think that, that's not my concern because those cases are extremely rare. I was more along the lines referring to the fact that while I was in the scouts in my youth, the very thought of a gay leader would have been impossible. I'm sure several parents (as a lot were very hardcore right leaners that wouldn't have tolerated such) would be very upset to hear a gay person in a position of authority teaching lessons to their children. It comes down to what kind of stranger you want teaching life lessons and skills to your children? If you're gay then it's all good right? But if you're not gay do you really trust a gay person to NOT spout their pro-gay rhetoric to impressionable kids? I don't want my kids raised by Elton John and Ellen DeGeneris, I want to raise them on my terms with my morals and lessons, not some "See? We do it all the time, it's okay to shove your agenda and beliefs on people regardless of if they want it or not." THAT is what it all boils down to, it's not tolerance or acceptance, it's about: "Stop shoving that shit down my throat, whether it's pro-gay, pro-Muslim, or freaking pro-My Little Pony, if I want to know more about it or support it, I'll come to you, don't come seek me out!" /rant

[TEAMRICO]

Rucker, we get it. You are so much more tolerant than the rest of us.
If you have no business with Scouting then go about your life. Those of us involved are trying to something good for the kids. Not push a belief system and a hidden agenda. I for one try to bring them up to work together, learn new skills and build self confidence. The parents can make the decision if they know a leader is gay or whatever and not have their child participate. It is their choice. Why should a child have to be exposed to this? Please give me a reason why it makes you lose sleep over this. Start your own Troop and see how many families with one mom(female) and one dad(male) flock to join up.

You put people in a situation that they disagree with and then WE are all of a sudden the intolerant evil ones.
I don't go around making the world conform to me. I'm not pounding on the door of any woman's organization forcing them to admit me I just go about my life and if it does not concern me then so be it.
Make up all the hypotheticals you want. The Scouts made their decision so accept the fact. It does not concern you so move on to the next cause.

[Rucker61]

Rucker, we get it. You are so much more tolerant than the rest of us.
If you have no business with Scouting then go about your life. Those of us involved are trying to something good for the kids. Not push a belief system and a hidden agenda. I for one try to bring them up to work together, learn new skills and build self confidence. The parents can make the decision if they know a leader is gay or whatever and not have their child participate. It is their choice. Why should a child have to be exposed to this? Please give me a reason why it makes you lose sleep over this. Start your own Troop and see how many families with one mom(female) and one dad(male) flock to join up.

You put people in a situation that they disagree with and then WE are all of a sudden the intolerant evil ones.
I don't go around making the world conform to me. I'm not pounding on the door of any woman's organization forcing them to admit me I just go about my life and if it does not concern me then so be it.
Make up all the hypotheticals you want. The Scouts made their decision so accept the fact. It does not concern you so move on to the next cause.

I appreciate your candor and frankness. I appreciate you volunteering to be a scout leader and passing on your knowledge to the next generation. I'm not lobbying the BSA to change their rules; those are their rules, and anyone who wants to be in Scouts has to agree to abide by them. I'd love to have my two sons involved in Scouts like some of their friends. I just don't want one of the lessons they take away from the experience to be "gays aren't good enough to be in Scouts" or "if you're gay, hide it from the world to be accepted".

[sniper7]

I love having Rucker on my ignore list. Hides the stupidity![Tooth]

[Ridge]

The Boy Scouts of America is a PRIVATE organization and they have the RIGHT to do this! The LGBT "community" is always asking for tolerance but yet they won't tolerate others beliefs.

What?

I'm pretty sure they have nothing against you being heterosexual...

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Rucker61]

so rucker is going to deprive his kids of Scouting, because they dont formally admit gays? what a moron.

Good thing they can still join the Marines.

[00tec]

What?

I'm pretty sure they have nothing against you being heterosexual...

But they have something against someone not wanting homosexuals in your club.

The scouts aren't saying you can't be a homo, just can't do it in the scouts.

Nobody is stopping them from creating their own group and not allowing straight people in...

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Rucker61]

But they have something against someone not wanting homosexuals in your club.

The scouts aren't saying you can't be a homo, just can't do it in the scouts.

Nobody is stopping them from creating their own group and not allowing straight people in...

Why is separation the answer? Why can't every kid be a scout? I've seen plenty of complaints about the exclusionary policy of minority organizations in this very forum, so why is it the answer now?

[00tec]

Why is separation the answer? Why can't every kid be a scout? I've seen plenty of complaints about the exclusionary policy of minority organizations in this very forum, so why is it the answer now?

So create a group that lets everyone in, I don't care. These groups seeking 'tolerance' need to get the fuck on and stop harassing a private organization.

What do you think the Black Panthers would say if I took my pale ass up there and tried to join? Their group, their belief, their right.

[Song Dog]

I'm biased in this conversation. I have a family member who is gay. I also had a brother-in-arms whom was gay. He has recieved 2 purple hearts and a bronze star for actions in Ramadi, Iraq...but hey let's piss on him because he's gay. Kinda funny how he puts his life on the line to protect our freedom, and ignorant civilians run their piehole. You know what they say, the empty can rattles the most. If the boy scouts wish for gays not to be involved, that's their perogative. It's kinda funny how the BSA says no to gays, but how many sexual predators are taking your children into the woods? The only ones who have convictions are the ones who have been caught.

Here's some food for thought...

There were 2,000 US cases of abuse within the Boy Scouts of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America) prior to 1994, and one abuse incident was as recent as 2006. -via a report on the internet.

So the BSA isn't the holy roller they think they are.

Sorry if my post offends anyone, it's just my 2 cents on the subject.

[HBARleatherneck]

Parents should be much more involved in their childrens lives. They should KNOW who is watching, interacting, influencing their kids. I know most people dont now. Thats why they have public school, daycare, big boys, big sisters, Scouting, television, cable, internet. Whatever people can do, to NOT raise their own kids.

People need to take responsibility.

[Song Dog]

so, 2000 thousand cases. which is clearly 2000 too many. what does that have to do with letting gays in? we know you have gay relatives, Im sure rucker is one of them.

BSA is 102 years old, it has 2.7 million youth members 1 million adult members, and there have been 110 million members total. 2000 cases of abuse is pretty low.


There goes that empty can........

[Rucker61]

so, 2000 thousand cases. which is clearly 2000 too many. what does that have to do with letting gays in? we know you have gay relatives, Im sure rucker is one of them.



Ouch. Did you know that one third of the current scout volunteers are assumed to have sex with men, or be willing to in the right circumstances? How can we trust them with boys?

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[Rucker61]

so, you have an actual source for that? or you pulled it out of your ass?

FAQ from the BSA website:

http://www.scouting.org/FAQ/Parent.aspx

"
Can women be Boy Scout leaders? (javascript://)

Yes. Every leadership position is open to women. In fact, more than one-third of Scout volunteers are women."

Obviously, none of those women are lesbians. And if putting stuff in your ass is against the BSA rules, pulling it out must be against the rules, too.

[Ridge]

FAQ from the BSA website:

http://www.scouting.org/FAQ/Parent.aspx

"
Can women be Boy Scout leaders? (javascript://)

Yes. Every leadership position is open to women. In fact, more than one-third of Scout volunteers are women."

Obviously, none of those women are lesbians. And if putting stuff in your ass is against the BSA rules, pulling it out must be against the rules, too.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff32/evildrew81/scary%20stuff/Joker.gif

The old switcheroo

[theGinsue]

Man, I hate getting to the party late. I've only read the first 10 or so posts in this thread and already everything I planned to say has been expressed.

[ETA: wow, after the first 10 posts of this thread things really changed]

"Intolerance" isn't the domain of the hetero community, it's very evident across the board (not this "board"). You can't say "We have the right to choose" or "We have the right to decide for ourselves" while denying that same freedom to others.

If the gay community doesn't appreciate this decision, they are free to start their own organization that teaches the skills and values of the Boy Scouts of America.

[Rucker61]

Man, I hate getting to the party late. I've only read the first 10 or so posts in this thread and already everything I planned to say has been expressed.

"Intolerance" isn't the domain of the hetero community, it's very evident across the board (not this "board"). You can't say "We have the right to choose" or "We have the right to decide for ourselves" while denying that same freedom to others.



I don't recall any gay organizations denying membership to straights. Which ones do you know of?




If the gay community doesn't appreciate this decision, they are free to start their own organization that teaches the skills and values of the Boy Scouts of America.

Again, why is separation the answer? What is wrong with gay kids that they can't learn all of the good things that scouts teach straight kids? Gay kids go to church with straight kids. Gay kids go to school with straight kids. Gay kids go to war with straight kids. If scouts is the best thing for kids, let'em all learn.

[00tec]

That's their decision to make. They made it. Move on. "Tolerate" their choice.

[Rucker61]

That's their decision to make. They made it. Move on. "Tolerate" their choice.

You can't say "Move On" on this forum.

[TEAMRICO]

This is what they do, push it and push it.
You will NOT change any minds here. Why does it bother you so that others have a differing opinion?
Why cant you just go about your life. Would you like us to change the site to accommodate you?
Please keep your kids from experiencing Scouts because of the Homophobe environment you perceive. Accuse other of being pedophiles to fit your narrative, stay intolerant of others and teach your children any way and anything you want. Im tired of dealing with people like you, the intolerant hypocrite who demands the world change for them.
Find the organizations you want to join and join them. You will not have me crying about what they do. You dont seem to want to make any friends here, just rile up the crowd and and spew intolerance then cry we are the ones who wont tolerate differences! It is usually the other way around. Dont get butt hurt when you are the minority here.

YES, PLEASE MOVE ON.

Joins in MAY and is already determing the rules!! To funny!
This a hard way to boost your post count!

[theGinsue]

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA -- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.
+1 this



Again, why is separation the answer? What is wrong with gay kids that they can't learn all of the good things that scouts teach straight kids? Gay kids go to church with straight kids. Gay kids go to school with straight kids. If scouts is the best thing for kids, let'em all learn.

I'll answer that by reversing the question. Why is inclusion the answer? we're you ever a Scout? The BSA was founded on certain specific values - this is as much a part of what Scouting teaches as how to camp or whittle a scarf slide or use a compass. Homosexually is not compatible with those values. It's just that simple. If the gay community likes everything about the BSA EXCEPT those values then they don't really like what the BSA is about. Their desire to "join" is actually a desire to CHANGE the BSA. Again, there is nothing stopping the gay community from creating their own organization similar to the BSA in all regards aside from the values they teach.

Say I'm a Protestant. As such, I don't belong in a Catholic church because I don't share their same values. This "gays should be allowed in the BSA is the same as if I insisted the the Catholic church allow my to be a member on the fact that we both just want to learn more about God. The logic doesn't follow.

Or, something closer to home, let's say an anti-2A member wanted to join this site. They don't share our values but claim to want to know more about guns (with an ulterior motive; of course). Should they be allowed to be a member of our site? Should they be allowed to come in here in increasing numbers as they continue to run off pro-2A members because of their anti comments? I say HELL NO!

QUOTE=Rucker61;545742]Gay kids go to war with straight kids.[/quote]
That's another decision I disagree with!

[BushMasterBoy]

Gay guys don't think straight...[ROFL1]

[Rucker61]

You will NOT change any minds here.



I'm not worried about that.




Why does it bother you so that others have a differing opinion?


Why does it bother you so that others have a differing opinion?




Why cant you just go about your life. Would you like us to change the site to accommodate you?



No thanks, not necessary, or even requested. Where did that come from?



Please keep your kids from experiencing Scouts because of the Homophobe environment you perceive.



What part of "No gays allowed" isn't homophobic? What other rationale could there be?




Accuse other of being pedophiles to fit your narrative,



I don't believe I've called anyone a pedophile, other than the pedophiles.



stay intolerant of others and teach your children any way and anything you want.



If I was intolerant of other people, would I still be here?




Im tired of dealing with people like you, the intolerant hypocrite who demands the world change for them.



Yes, like those intolerant hypocrites who demanded that women and minorities be allowed to vote, or that the races can intermingle, or that minorities should be allowed to go to the good schools with the white kids. Damn those world changers.



Find the organizations you want to join and join them.



Like the Colorado AR-15 Shooter's Club? That organization? I'm here. And learning lots.




You will not have me crying about what they do. You dont seem to want to make any friends here, just rile up the crowd and and spew intolerance then cry we are the ones who wont tolerate differences! It is usually the other way around. Dont get butt hurt when you are the minority here.



I've been the minority from day 1. I knew that coming in, and I have no problem with it. Is taking a stand against intolerance considered intolerance? If so, then what about a stand of intolerance against intolerance of intolerance?




YES, PLEASE MOVE ON.

Joins in MAY and is already determing the rules!! Too funny!
This a hard way to boost your post count!

What rules have I asked to change? And post counts don't concern me, the same way that trophy animals don't.

[sniper7]

Or, something closer to home, let's say an anti-2A member wanted to join this site. They don't share our values but claim to want to know more about guns (with an ulterior motive; of course). Should they be allowed to be a member of our site? Should they be allowed to come in here in increasing numbers as they continue to run off pro-2A members because of their anti comments? I say HELL NO!


time for a mod vote on a certain someone?[Tooth]


I will +1 what Ginsue has said and Alohashooter has said.
It's their organization, their rules. don't like em...too bad, go cry about it while watching an episode of will and grace or queer eye for the straight guy....

If you don't like the decision, the great part about America is that you can go start your own organization and let in whoever you like. I suggest you start your own website...you can call it The Gay Scouts of America.

[Rucker61]

+1 this




I'll answer that by reversing the question. Why is inclusion the answer? we're you ever a Scout? The BSA was founded on certain specific values - this is as much a part of what Scouting teaches as how to camp or whittle a scarf slide or use a compass. Homosexually is not compatible with those values. It's just that simple.

http://www.scouting.org/

Show us which value is incompatible with being a gay kid.



Or, something closer to home, let's say an anti-2A member wanted to join this site. They don't share our values but claim to want to know more about guns (with an ulterior motive; of course). Should they be allowed to be a member of our site? Should they be allowed to come in here in increasing numbers as they continue to run off pro-2A members because of their anti comments? I say HELL NO!



Better change the rules, then, because right now that's allowed.

QUOTE=Rucker61;545742]Gay kids go to war with straight kids.[/quote]



That's another decision I disagree with!

Didn't want that comment to get lost. What else do you want to exclude gay kids from?

Here's a question for you: should Democrats be allowed to be scout leaders?

[HBARleatherneck]

delete

[HoneyBadger]

It comes down to what kind of stranger you want teaching life lessons and skills to your children? If you're gay then it's all good right? But if you're not gay do you really trust a gay person to NOT spout their pro-gay rhetoric to impressionable kids? I don't want my kids raised by Elton John and Ellen DeGeneris, I want to raise them on my terms with my morals and lessons, not some "See? We do it all the time, it's okay to shove your agenda and beliefs on people regardless of if they want it or not." THAT is what it all boils down to, it's not tolerance or acceptance, it's about: "Stop shoving that shit down my throat, whether it's pro-gay, pro-Muslim, or freaking pro-My Little Pony, if I want to know more about it or support it, I'll come to you, don't come seek me out!" /rant

Yay! Ronin, sometimes you make me happy


Parents should be much more involved in their childrens lives. They should KNOW who is watching, interacting, influencing their kids. I know most people dont now. Thats why they have public school, daycare, big boys, big sisters, Scouting, television, cable, internet. Whatever people can do, to NOT raise their own kids.

YES. THIS PISSES ME OFF SO MUCH! PARENTS NEED TO DO THEIR JOBS!

Holy smokes... I don't think butthurt is an appropriate word, considering the topic, but it's still darned funny! [ROFL1]

[theGinsue]

Yes, like those intolerant hypocrites who demanded that women and minorities be allowed to vote, or that the races can intermingle, or that minorities should be allowed to go to the good schools with the white kids. Damn those world changers.

What you identify here is physical characteristics that one is born with and can not be changed.

I've read the research on how homosexuality is mentally defined at birth and is not "learned" (nature vs nurture argument). Perhaps that is true, but it isn't an unchangeable physical characteristic like gender (okay, gender can be changed but there is still the issue of chromosomes... XX, XY, OR XXY.) or race. Homosexuality is defined as much by BEHAVIOR as It is a mental proclivity. We can think & reason and as such, we can make a choice to behave one way or the other. In this way it doesn't equate to gender nor race.


Better change the rules, then, because right now that's allowed.

Says who? I guarantee that if any member of the staff had reason to believe a member was not pro-2A, that person would no longer be a member. It's written in the site rules:

vi. Managers/mods can restrict access to the site, shoot, whatever for any reason at any time


I have gay friends; many. I like them as individuals, but they know my feelings on their lifestyle. Because of their homosexuality, whether they are sexually active or not, I exclude them from a great part of my life. It's my choice as a private individual, just as the BSA 's choice is their own as a private organization. There are those who would say "your loss" to these decisions, but those who've made the choice don't perceive any loss.

[Rucker61]

What you identify here is physical characteristics that one is born with and can not be changed.

I've read the research on how homosexuality is mentally defined at birth and is not "learned" (nature vs nurture argument). Perhaps that is true, but it isn't an unchangeable physical characteristic like gender (okay, gender can be changed but there is still the issue of chromosomes... XX, XY, OR XXY.) or race.



Ah, actual research, in a civil tone. Refreshing and welcome. I'd like to see more of the research on how it's not a physical characteristic yet is fully defined mentally at birth. The studies I've seen indicate that there is no one accepted single cause, and many factors influence homosexuality, including genetic, hormonal and environmental influences. Given that, I'd opine that the physical characteristic of homosexuality is unchangeable.




Homosexuality is defined as much by BEHAVIOR as It is a mental proclivity.



Herein lies the quandary. Who is gay: someone who considers themselves gay but only acts in heterosexual relationships, like those in heterosexual marriages, or those who consider themselves completely straight, like dominant prisoners who force other men into homosexual acts?




We can think & reason and as such, we can make a choice to behave one way or the other. In this way it doesn't equate to gender nor race.



You act to fulfill heterosexual urges, presumably, because you are straight and desire heterosexual physical sex. How is a gay person doing something similar so disturbing? Would you prefer that they live a life of celibacy or participate in a act they have no desire to?





Says who? I guarantee that if any member of the staff had reason to believe a member was not pro-2A, that person would no longer be a member. It's written in the site rules:



I stand corrected; in fact, I went back to confirm earlier and saw that I had missed that clause. According to those rules, you can kick anyone out for any reason at all. At any time, without warning.




I have gay friends; many. I like them as individuals, but they know my feelings on their lifestyle. Because of their homosexuality, whether they are sexually active or not, I exclude them from a great part of my life. It's my choice as a private individual, just as the BSA 's choice is their own as a private organization. There are those who would say "your loss" to these decisions, but those who've made the choice don't perceive any loss.

And that's the great pity here.

[theGinsue]

Ah, actual research, in a civil tone. Refreshing and welcome. I'd like to see more of the research on how it's not a physical characteristic yet is fully defined mentally at birth. The studies I've seen indicate that there is no one accepted single cause, and many factors influence homosexuality, including genetic, hormonal and environmental influences. Given that, I'd opine that the physical characteristic of homosexuality is unchangeable.

I never said I agreed with these studies. I contend that homosexuality, like heterosexuality, is a choice (nurture camp)

Please, identify for me what that unchangeable physical characteristics are as I've never seen nor heard of them. Now, I don't mean behavioral physical characteristics such as a flamboyant gay man sashaying, but something that is a part of their body.

Herein lies the quandary. Who is gay: someone who considers themselves gay but only acts in heterosexual relationships, like those in heterosexual marriages, or those who consider themselves completely straight, like dominant prisoners who force other men into homosexual acts?

I'm fairly certain that in the gay community, if a person professed being gay, but performed hetero behavior, the community would classify him as straight. Of course, bi is just someone who refused to make a choice.


You act to fulfill heterosexual urges, presumably, because you are straight and desire heterosexual physical sex. How is a gay person doing something similar so disturbing? Would you prefer that they live a life of celibacy or participate in a act they have no desire to?

No, but it doesn't mean they I want to be associated with it any more than the BSA wants to be. I know gays (this is usually the lesbians) that don't want to be associated with straights. I respect their choice as they respect mine & we give each other the space.

I stand corrected; in fact, I went back to confirm earlier and saw that I had missed that clause. According to those rules, you can kick anyone out for any reason at all. At any time, without warning.

Yep, it's the catch all.

And that's the great pity here.

I disagree. I'd have no problem going shooting with a gay person (I already mentioned I do have gay friends), but I won't be going out for drinks with that same person afterwards.

time for a mod vote on a certain someone?[Tooth]

Not from me. He is entitled to his beliefs, but he has to know (and already stated as such) that he'll have few on this site who agree with him.

ETA: I really have nothing further to add and don't wish to prolong this thread any more myself. To be honest, I just don't care to discuss it further as I've said my piece.

[Rucker61]

I disagree.

I think we've reached a civil accomodation.