Sleep problems...

[Ronin13]

So it's been about 4 or 5 weeks now and I can honestly say I haven't had a single night of actual quality sleep in that time period. I've been to the VA and have a prescription on the way that we're going to try but that was a week ago and I still am waiting for it to arrive (the VA isn't exactly the fastest moving entity in the world). I realize I need to start exercising a bit more to tire myself out and help de-stress (perhaps even make time to go shooting)... but that aside is there anything you guys could recommend that could help me sleep better? I usually have no problem falling asleep, it's getting good, healthy sleep... Maybe I should start going to those cancer meetings and blood parasite meetings? (Fight Club reference)

[DD977GM2]

Honestly, try taking 800mg of ibuprophen about 30 mins before you go to bed.
From my motorcycle accident and the meds they gave me, I have odd sleeping patterns and cycles.

Give it a shot or try over the counter dramamine (motion sickness pills)
They work too.

[sniper7]

taking plenty of time away from computers and cell phones helps me. I find if I am on my cell phone or laptop a lot before bed that I get worse sleep.

a good bit of exercise really helps.

a day with kids will put you to sleep really well!

or try driving 55 in the left lane of I-70 westbound. I find it relaxing especially when I have a crazy guy in a beemer behind me throwing a fit.

[Monky]

So it's been about 4 or 5 weeks now and I can honestly say I haven't had a single night of actual quality sleep in that time period. I've been to the VA and have a prescription on the way that we're going to try but that was a week ago and I still am waiting for it to arrive (the VA isn't exactly the fastest moving entity in the world). I realize I need to start exercising a bit more to tire myself out and help de-stress (perhaps even make time to go shooting)... but that aside is there anything you guys could recommend that could help me sleep better? I usually have no problem falling asleep, it's getting good, healthy sleep... Maybe I should start going to those cancer meetings and blood parasite meetings? (Fight Club reference)

No light in the room at all. No alarm clock, fire alarm light, nothing. Get black out curtains for the window.

It could also be your bed isn't supportive enough/firm enough for your size.

I bought a new tempurpedic and i sleep like a baby now. I don't find myself tossing and turning, if I'm tired I go right to sleep.

Are you drinking too much caffeine late?

Could be a lot of factors, drugs are not the way to go.

There are some 'natural' sleep aids you could try.. valerian root is one.

[Sparky]

3mg of melatonin. Chase that with 2 tylenol pm's. Knocks me right out.

[Tinelement]

Zannybars. (Alprazolam)

I have super high anxiety, when it kicks in I don't sleep for an hour a night. 2 Zbars and its nighty night! If its really bad and I can predict it, 2 Zbars and 2 shots of JD........

But then again.....



I can do that cause I was born in the 70's! [ROFL1][ROFL1]

[sellersm]

Melatonin, 5http (it's what the body uses to make its own melatonin & seratonin), a homeopathic product known as Quietude from Boiron (natural grocers, whole foods sells it), a drink known as Neuro Sleep, comes in an orange bottle... valerian root as mentioned is helpful.

Remove 'stimulation' at least 30" before going to bed: computer, tv, games, cell phone, etc.

Also, we've had success with relaxation music: music therapy music recorded at 50 beats per minute. Like what a massage therapist might use...

[sellersm]

Also, if the rx is for Ambien, be aware that a big side-effect is short-term memory loss, so be careful what you do between the time you take it and goto sleep!!

[Ronin13]

Wow, I take one phone call and this filled right up! Thanks, and Monky, I've heard of valerian root, where can I get that? I like where your head's at, drugs being a not-so-great way to go, I'm thinking about getting some of that herbal decaf tea that is supposed to help you sleep and I've heard mixing it with honey is great (because honey is natural sugars that don't give you the jitters like glucose when they break down).

Sniper, I'll keep that in mind- I usually put on a movie or netflix on my computer (I have an external monitor connected) before bed and usually plan it so that it is over about the same time I go to sleep. And I don't know about doing 55 in the fast lane... I may drive a beemer, but I don't go crazy, I just right lane pass ya if you're going slow :D

[pdr240]

I do some stretching / deep breathing to help relax and try not to eat too much too late ... good luck, it sucks being awake at night.

[Chad4000]

Honestly, try taking 800mg of ibuprophen about 30 mins before you go to bed.
From my motorcycle accident and the meds they gave me, I have odd sleeping patterns and cycles.

Give it a shot or try over the counter dramamine (motion sickness pills)
They work too.


totally agree here... and for the same reason too.. motorcycle accident

[rondog]

CPAP machine! Takes a little getting used to, but I absolutely cannot live without mine now. NFW I can sleep without it. It's like having my own little personal supercharger that packs the air right into my beak. No breathing problems, no snoring, sleep like a dead man.

A good BJ can put you right to sleep too. Seems like I remember that from a long time ago.

[Byte Stryke]

2000MG Percocet and a beer

[Ronin13]

Zannybars. (Alprazolam)

I have super high anxiety, when it kicks in I don't sleep for an hour a night. 2 Zbars and its nighty night! If its really bad and I can predict it, 2 Zbars and 2 shots of JD........

But then again.....



I can do that cause I was born in the 70's! [ROFL1][ROFL1]

And where does one get these? My doc is putting me on a mild anti-depressant with anti-anxiety as the main use for it as my PTSD and anxiety has been getting worse (it always does this in the summer). No, it's not ambien or other "sleep aids"- I stay the hell away from that crap!

Sellersm, thanks, I'll give that a shot since now it seems two people saying Melatonin is the way to go and say no more I'm convinced! [Coffee]

Pdr240- indeed... I totally forgot about breathing and stretching, maybe that could be what might help the most... it's not gay to get into yoga is it?

[sellersm]

Valerian root is available at some King Soopers, any 'natural' store (Natural Grocers, Vitamin Cottage, Whole Foods, etc.).

Neuro Sleep is available at King Soopers, with the Sobe and stuff. It's a natural drink.

[Wiggity]

If you want to go the natural way take Valerian root, melatonin, and sleepy time tea all at the same time.



I have chronic back pain so if I take a percoset, soma, and meloxicam then I'm out cold.



Other than that, Xanax, valium, and other benzos will do the trick.



Add a beer/shot/wine to any of these for good measure and maximum sleepage

[jhood001]

a good bit of exercise really helps.


Based on what I know about your age and what you do for a living, I would agree that this is all you really need. You probably aren't sleeping well because you simply aren't that tired.

Don't you live in an apartment complex? Does it have a pool?

I'll bet you a box of ammo that a 20 minute swim 30 minutes before bed will put you down.

And definitely unplug earlier.

[Tinelement]

And where does one get these? My doc is putting me on a mild anti-depressant with anti-anxiety as the main use for it as my PTSD and anxiety has been getting worse (it always does this in the summer). No, it's not ambien or other "sleep aids"- I stay the hell away from that crap!



Just tell your doc you suffer from anxiety. Im not promoting just going out and faking symptoms to get drugs.! I have pretty serious anxiety and mild depression. Shit sucks! Wouldn't wish anxiety attacks on my enemies.

It is what it is.

If you can't turn your mind off, all the relaxation stuff in the world won't work. Tried it all. And the best thing for me is the Zbars. Gives me a good night sleep, better mood the next day, anxiety is down, natural sleep the next night. I might take a Zbar or 2 once a week.

[SuperiorDG]

Get your MJ card and you will be GTG

[TEAMRICO]

NyQuil.

Works for me when I need to sleep like a rock.

[xring]

Of the suggestions here the exercise sounds the best, at least two hours before bedtime tho. Its actually a nice time to be out if you exercise outdoors. A good walk is a wonderful thing! [Bunny]The ambien puts some people in a state where they do wierd things and cant remember. Its popular amonst women for sex. The "z-bars" are the standard benzo nowadays. Benzos keep me awake so does alcohol but im wierd that way. I would avoid both but some use with no problems. Valerian doesnt do shit for me. Somtimes i cant sleep and if its been a hour I take a generic benadryl(dihdramine?) they are like $3 for 100 at walmart. They work well for me 8 times out of ten. And theres always the support groups.[OLA]

[sniper7]

Wow, I take one phone call and this filled right up! Thanks, and Monky, I've heard of valerian root, where can I get that? I like where your head's at, drugs being a not-so-great way to go, I'm thinking about getting some of that herbal decaf tea that is supposed to help you sleep and I've heard mixing it with honey is great (because honey is natural sugars that don't give you the jitters like glucose when they break down).

Sniper, I'll keep that in mind- I usually put on a movie or netflix on my computer (I have an external monitor connected) before bed and usually plan it so that it is over about the same time I go to sleep. And I don't know about doing 55 in the fast lane... I may drive a beemer, but I don't go crazy, I just right lane pass ya if you're going slow :D

Yeah I know, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to be a smartass after your rant about speed limits and left lane is for passing etc! [ROFL1]

[sniper7]

someone mentions BJs and they work wonders. Or help yourself out a little bit...talk dirty to the beemer[ROFL1]

[Sparky]

Zannybars. (Alprazolam)

I have super high anxiety, when it kicks in I don't sleep for an hour a night. 2 Zbars and its nighty night! If its really bad and I can predict it, 2 Zbars and 2 shots of JD........

But then again.....



I can do that cause I was born in the 70's! [ROFL1][ROFL1]

I took xanex for week it sent me into a spiral downhill into severe depression. So bad the wife had the sense to remove all firearms to the house and send me to the ER. I take Cymbalta now and that keeps me feeling good. Oh yeah 1mg of xanex and I was sleeping no matter where I was.

[TEAMRICO]

Of the suggestions here the exercise sounds the best, at least two hours before bedtime tho.[OLA]

no way in hell can I work out for 2 hours![Tooth]

[tmckay2]

exercise. also try to eat healthy. you don't necessarily have to work out at night, the mornings are fine too. as mentioned, swimming is awesome for sleep. if you work out in the evening the best thing is to lightly swim or even chill in the hot tub for 20 min afterwards. water has a weird way of making people tired. get a 24 hour membership or something similar if you don't have one, most have pools. id still work out in the morning if i was you, that coupled with work will make you tired, then try a pool or hot tub in the evening but if timing is a problem you can do both in the evening.

i wouldn't even consider drugs until you have exhausted everything or the doctor has diagnosed you specifically with a sleeping problem or worse. even otc, "natural" remedies are drugs and can have unwanted effects. benzos should be avoided at all costs. even if you get a script for ambien it shouldn't be a crutch you rely on for a long period of time.

eat healthy, avoid chocolate, sugar and caffeinated drinks, and exercise. 90% of the time that will fix it right up. also no tv while in bed.

[Fentonite]

exercise. also try to eat healthy. you don't necessarily have to work out at night, the mornings are fine too. as mentioned, swimming is awesome for sleep. if you work out in the evening the best thing is to lightly swim or even chill in the hot tub for 20 min afterwards. water has a weird way of making people tired. get a 24 hour membership or something similar if you don't have one, most have pools. id still work out in the morning if i was you, that coupled with work will make you tired, then try a pool or hot tub in the evening but if timing is a problem you can do both in the evening.

i wouldn't even consider drugs until you have exhausted everything or the doctor has diagnosed you specifically with a sleeping problem or worse. even otc, "natural" remedies are drugs and can have unwanted effects. benzos should be avoided at all costs. even if you get a script for ambien it shouldn't be a crutch you rely on for a long period of time.

eat healthy, avoid chocolate, sugar and caffeinated drinks, and exercise. 90% of the time that will fix it right up. also no tv while in bed.

^^^this^^^

Don't jump straight to prescriptions. There's more problems associated than most folks know. We (as a society) have become too reliant on looking for a quick fix or an easy out instead of working hard for something worthwhile. Suck it up, change your habits, and you'll almost certainly see drastic improvement.

[pdr240]

And where does one get these? My doc is putting me on a mild anti-depressant with anti-anxiety as the main use for it as my PTSD and anxiety has been getting worse (it always does this in the summer). No, it's not ambien or other "sleep aids"- I stay the hell away from that crap!

Sellersm, thanks, I'll give that a shot since now it seems two people saying Melatonin is the way to go and say no more I'm convinced! [Coffee]

Pdr240- indeed... I totally forgot about breathing and stretching, maybe that could be what might help the most... it's not gay to get into yoga is it?

Heh, I practice Qi Gong to keep from thinking too much.
I've had the alaprazolam too - heck of a time in the morning though, feel groggy till noon.
Oh yeah ... I'm not gay, you can ask my wife.

[Bailey Guns]

I've had trouble sleeping my entire adult life. I think it's a result of all the weird shift-work I did in the military and LE jobs.

The recipe that works for me is: about 1/2 hour to 45 mins before I go to bed I brew a cup of Celestial Seasonings Sleepytime Extra (with 25mg Valerian) and I take 2 Benadryl. BAM! Out like a dead man. I do the tea thing almost every night. I only resort to the Benadryl if I don't feel like sleep will come easily.

I like the tea...kinda like the coffee ritual in the morning. And the Benadryl (aka: Uncle Ben...my wife, the nurse, says they use it a lot in the hospital) is about as benign as you can get...though again, it's not an every night thing.

Probably helps that I get up at 0400 and my job kicks my ass as it's very physically demanding, too.

[Great-Kazoo]

Along the lines of tea. Not that i sleep for more than 1-2hrs tops, however.
White sage, not the cooking kind, a few leaves in some hot water, let them sit for what ever your taste buds decide. I usually drop 1-2 teaspoons of raw honey in for an even taste. I can send you some if you like, have a nice section growing in the yard. You can also put 1 -2 leaves in your mouth prior to laying down, which also helps take the edge off the day.

Interesting and nice to see some non-narcotic natural options offered up.

[theGinsue]

... but that aside is there anything you guys could recommend that could help me sleep better?

What I find works for me is reading Ronin's post just before bed time. What? Oh! Um, forget I said that.


totally agree here... and for the same reason too.. motorcycle accident
now you've got me wondering if this isn't part of my problem too.

CPAP machine! Takes a little getting used to, but I absolutely cannot live without mine now.
I have both "obstructive" (swallow my tongue) & "centralized" (where my brain quits telling me to breathe) apnea. I finally got my CPAP and an oxygen concentrator around March (after trying to get one for 8+ years). I knew it was helping, but I didn't realize how much until last week when I fell asleep before putting on my mask. The next day I was a walking zombie (and damned glad none of you were around to 'solve' that problem for me). CPAP's are literally lifesavers!

Sleep disorders are really no laughing matter as sleep depravation can cause serious health issues as well as running the risk of falling asleep while driving (this happened to me just before I got my CPAP - luckily I was stopped at a red light and I never released pressure from the brake).

Ronin, do whatever you have to do to get the sleep you need. While we like to tease you, this site wouldn't be the same without you!

[Bailey Guns]

I'd like to try the sage, Jim. I've really started to like a large variety of green teas. I really think it's helping my BP, too. Very relaxing in the evening...maybe that's it. Just the relaxing ritual. Whatever...it works.

[HBARleatherneck]

pump iron.

[Monky]

it's not gay to get into yoga is it?

Nope but it's not as relaxing as you might think.. you'll get your ass kicked before it becomes relaxing.. not typically muscles guys use. We're apparently not meant to balance and hold it.


I'm not gay, you can ask my wife.

I did. She said she didn't want to talk about it then got out of bed.




Sleep disorders are really no laughing matter as sleep depravation can cause serious health issues as well as running the risk of falling asleep while driving (this happened to me just before I got my CPAP - luckily I was stopped at a red light and I never released pressure from the brake).

Ronin, do whatever you have to do to get the sleep you need. While we like to tease you, this site wouldn't be the same without you!

They aren't funny.. I worked graves for 11 years, and I can still wake up at 3am and be ready to go no matter how much sleep I got.. now if I wake up at 6am.. i'm as useful as a liberal.

[Rucker61]

I have both "obstructive" (swallow my tongue) & "centralized" (where my brain quits telling me to breathe) apnea.

I was lucky; my apnea was cured by having tonsils out. 48 years of snoring gone that day. Of course, the recovery sucked. Earaches would wake me out of a dead sleep.

[NightCat]

...The army prescribed me a full cocktail of shit to take everyday to keep me 1) sane, 2) to where I can actually sleep.

It's the price we pay...

Think I take 15 different things a day....

Shit is horrible...but hey, I can sleep...

I seriously think its like, Drug A fixes your problem, all the rest try to negate the side effects of drug A lol

But before bed I take some cocktail of like, some muscle relaxer, Diazapam and ambien...shit does the trick..

[DavieD55]

A good diet and moderate exercise 3-4 days a week. Cut any cigarettes, fast food, or soda completely for awhile.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

I can't turn my brain off either! Beer helps,------But. too much and restless, toss and turn, F-cked nightmares for me!! [Bang][Bang] Good luck with that!!

[spyder]

Try sex...... with a woman. [Beer]

[HoneyBadger]

Diet, exercise, and lots of healthy activity goes a long way. I work different shifts all the time (out of every 10 days, i work 2 days of 1st shift, then 2 days of 2nd shift, then 2 days of 3rd shift.. then 3.5 days off before the next day of 1st shift) and regular HARD exercise and eating healthy fresh foods make a HUGE difference. If all else fails, and you are eating right and working out, and you have good sleep hygiene, try 80mg of benedryl about 30 mins before bed. Works every time for me :) Good luck bud.

[One Shot]

Take a couple days away from this site and go exercise.
Dont drink any energy drinks/coffee.
Whiskey

[TennVol]

Do you feel tired during the day (or did you prior to having trouble sleeping)? You should get the VA to set you up for a sleep test. You could have sleep apnea. Several years ago when I was still on active duty I was feeling tired every day after lunch & I wasn't sleeping well at night. I had a sleep test performed and they found I had obstructive sleep apnea. I first tried laser surgery - Laser Assisted UvuloPalatoplasty (LAUP) X 2 to try and get rid of it, but neither procedure helped. I finally got a CPAP the year before I retired and now I sleep like a baby and I feel much better during the day - no "tiredness" at all. The mask takes a little getting used to, but it is definitely worth it!

[xring]

it's not gay to get into yoga is it?


No but it might be easier. Picture your typical yoga class. Twelve fit and attractive young women, three so so women, still quite fit, two of their boyfriends that got dragged along and a instructor thats a nine or ten all dressed in scin tight clothing. Now the class proceeds with the participants assuming positions, that while developed over the eons to enhance the flow of prana in the body, could also be suitable for a other activities.

It can be hard to maintain your spiritual awareness in such a setting.

Seriously Yoga could be just what you are looking for. Its good for just about everthing. Flexibility, grace, core strength, body and mind awareness, relaxation and other qualities undefined. Switching from kneeling to sitting to prone sure becomes a piece of cake. I highly recomend you give it a try. There are different types, what you might try is hatha or vinyassa. The other participants are going to be at the other end of the political spectrum and there might be some bell ringing and incense burning so just grin and bear it,keep your mouth shut, and get feeling better. Give it a shot- what have you got to lose? nada, what have you got to gain ? mucho, I like those sort of odds.

[funkymonkey1111]

The room where you sleep should be just for that-no tv, computer, etc. Get off the computer and phone a while before bed. Also, make sure the bedroom is cool--a cooler temp can he'll a lot. Crank that AC

[DavieD55]

Another thing that can help with sleep is mixing some Omega 3 fatty acid into your diet.

[earplug]

Buy the book, ROAD TO SERFDOM. It should hit your nose every five pages or so.

[Irving]

Glad you started this thread Ronin, I sometimes experience weird sleep symptoms, but didn't want to start a whole thread about it.

1) When I run during the week, I find that I have MUCH more energy the next day. I can stay up late and not be a zombie the next day.

2) If you DO use the computer in bed, at least turn the screen brightness down all the way. I like to read myself to sleep from a book.

As to my sleep issues, for up to months at a time, I will go to bed late (usually from dorking around online) and I will often be startled awake approx 30 min after falling asleep. When I say startled, I'll shoot straight up in bed and see things in my closet, the hallway, the bottom of the bed, etc. I used to wake up cussing, but now I am used to it and know that once my eyes adjust in a few seconds, all the "stuff" goes away and I can just lay down and go back to sleep. I don't know if it is exaggerated hypnogogic imagery or what, but it is weird. I never remember dreaming though, it is just an abrupt transition from sleeping to sitting up in bed. Only usually happens when I'm staying up late and getting crappy sleep I think.

[hatidua]

-get a hot tub, girlfriend, or both.

[Mick-Boy]

Ronin,

What helps me to get to sleep is blacking out my room, turning off TVs/computers/music and consciously relaxing major muscle groups while deep breathing. The trick is to get your brain to slow down long enough to get to sleep. If you're still being stimulated (Lights, noise, etc.) it's tough.

You and I don't know each other but I've read some of your posts here and I'd like to get off into the weeds a bit and offer some food for thought based on my experience post-military.

After I got out I went through sort of a dark time. I picked up my DD214 and drove from NC to CO almost straight through. Like most young enlisted guys getting out, I didn't have the faintest idea what I was going to do next. I just knew that I wanted something different.

I got back to Colorado without the foggiest notion of what I wanted to do with myself. I ended up working a job that I kind of enjoyed, hanging out with friends that kind of understood me and generally feeling like I was wasting my time with all of it. I was restless to the point that I'd regularly get up in the middle of the night and run myself into exhaustion just to get a few hours of sleep. I knew I needed a change in a major way but I didn't know what that should be.

I ended up deciding to wander up into the mountains for about a month of backpacking and climbing. I wasn't alone the whole time, or even most of it. But I did have a long block by myself while I walked across the Maroon Bells Wilderness Area. The time alone helped me find perspective. It's also became something that I like to repeat periodically.

There's no lying about who you are or where you are going in life when you're alone.

We might poke fun at the hippys traveling to where ever to "find themselves" but I found there's some legitimacy to the idea. Especially for a young man with more experience than years who is trying to figure out what is supposed to come next in life.

That was me. I don't think anyone can really tell you the best way to work things out.

Spend time with people that understand where you are. This doesn't have to be someone from your unit, hell it doesn't even need to be someone from your war. Soldiers (Sailors, Marines, Airman, Etc) are the same today as they were 50, 500 or 5000 years ago. Most of those hard old bastards at the VFW have worked through the exact same things.

Reaching out doesn't make you weak or broken. Most of us get it.

For goodness sake, don't start binge drinking. Just because you're numb to your problems doesn't mean they are gone (and that shit gets expensive). No one likes a sloppy drunk. And no one likes a sloppy drunk who won't stop telling war stories. Most people don't care and most of the ones who do care have no frame of reference to understand what you're talking about. Save the stories for your military buddies (They'll pretend to believe your lies and won't try to equate your experiences to war movies they've seen). Added bonus to keeping the war stories to yourself; chicks dig guys with an air of mystery. http://lightfighter.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That's about it off the top of my head. Hang tough, work through it, it'll get's easier.

Sorry to get all long winded on you. My morning coffee must have kicked in.

[rbeau30]

I use a Herbal thing called "Calms Forte" I take one pill for an important meeting, and 3 for a good nights sleep and 4 if I need to really catch up on some sleep.

I work a Panama schedule and alternate nights/days every 3 months, I've used Ambien, Motrin/Tylenol PM, but this just seems to leave me more refreshed in the morning and less "chemical".

[DD977GM2]

2000MG Percocet and a beer

Now your talking, but Id recommend this before you hit a ragin party on Saturday or Friday [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[DD977GM2]

Try sex...... with a woman. [Beer]
Spyder, you know how tough that will be for Ronin?

I think he is worse the Rajesh Koothrappali character on The Big Bang Theory when it comes to conversing with women [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[ghettodub]

I dealt with insomnia for years, it was terrible. On nights I wasn't drunk, I wouldn't sleep. Three or four days at a time with no sleep, and I for sure started going crazy... Even on Ambien or Lunesta, I would only get maybe one or two hours sometimes.

Chinese medicine believes that sleep problems come from the liver, which I can buy, as I was a pretty hardcore drunk and having liver issues back then.

My sleep tips: drink more water throughout the day. Stop caffeine early if you do drink it. Try to work out in the morning, and not too late. Remove electronics from your room. Keep your apartment/house bright during the day, dark at night; helps create more natural seratonin and melatonin creation. Less alcohol.

Chemicals work to help you sleep, but they don't solve the problem on why you can't sleep. Just my .02

[ghettodub]

Spyder, you know how tough that will be for Ronin?

I think he is worse the Rajesh Koothrappali character on The Big Bang Theory when it comes to conversing with women [ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[LOL]

[ChadAmberg]

Try sex...... with a woman. [Beer]

Or not with a woman, it'll still probably put him out a few min later...

Remember if you decide to go the Scottish route, that pointing the sheep towards a cliff doesn't work as well, you'll need the velcro gloves.