SHTF/Camping Perimeter security?

[rbeau30]

Anyone have these?

"12 Gauge Perimeter Alarm System"

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Gadgets.html

Might be useful to have a few in the supplies.

[Badger]

Pretty cool, might have some concern of outdoor use during dry times though.



Badger

[275RLTW]

illegal (http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/Colorado/) to use.

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons



(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2012-22-303&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=8e4df935095f32a547286cdcc91523d2), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-105.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=e1def7b3d6b0bc25035b4eaed0a2e388), as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.

[00tec]

illegal (http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/Colorado/) to use.

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons



(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2012-22-303&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=8e4df935095f32a547286cdcc91523d2), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-105.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=e1def7b3d6b0bc25035b4eaed0a2e388), as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.
This thing is not designed to be used with buckshot. I don't see it being illegal with the flares, etc. Pepper rounds would probably catch a charge though.

[275RLTW]

This thing is not designed to be used with buckshot. I don't see it being illegal with the flares, etc. Pepper rounds would probably catch a charge though.

Still an unattended explosion. The projectile used doesn't negate that.

[Badger]

Seems there's always some genius "Google warrior" in every group. Remember kids, its all fun and games until someone searches only ONE source of information and ruins it for everyone else based on a single point of limited content. [Help]


Look up a little research on "explosion" and tell us again how this is illegal. Inquiring minds want to know.....




Badger

[Great-Kazoo]

Seems there's always some genius "Google warrior" in every group. Remember kids, its all fun and games until someone searches only ONE source of information and ruins it for everyone else based on a single point of limited content. [Help]


Look up a little research on "explosion" and tell us again how this is illegal. Inquiring minds want to know.....




Badger


Booby traps are illegal. Doesn't matter what the composition it's illegal. the research is not random It's CO law. Some years back a DFD rookie? was killed while responding to a fire in the warehouse district of downtown. Owner had the door booby trapped as a deterrent from the break in's he had been dealing with. Do your homework before critiquing someone else.

The quickest and simplest perimeter alarm is a few empty cans with some pebbles of other hard material in them. String the cans out about 4-5" off the ground in the brush. If you are camping in an area you feel the need to have a perimeter alarm, you're in the wrong area.

[Badger]

Yes, you'd be absolutely correct a booby trap is illegal. But here's the part where I simply ask you keep cranium external to colon and think about the facts:

1. A booby trap is any device requiring activation of some sort with the intent of causing harm or possibly even death to whomever activates it.

2. A perimeter alarm is a device intended as an early warning to those within an area. Not intended to cause harm.... hence the reason I wanted our resident Google warrior up there to investigate a little more.

3. If you'll notice the OP's title it includes the term S.H.T.F...... in such a scenario camping anywhere could be potentially hazardous and such methods of area detection could be beneficial.

The device in question uses blanks, not intended to cause harm and upon closer inspection are of a similar design used by our military for MANY years in a variety of applications with a variety of expected outcomes both passive and aggressive to the one who activated it.

So illegal? In its present form, NO. Can it be modified to do harm? Sure, but then again so can most anything with the right ounces of knowledge and ingenuity.


Badger

[cstone]

The cited Colorado statute has nothing to do with causing harm. Without having graduated from any law school or being admitted to practice law, this is how I was trained to read a statute:

(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

(c) He knowingly sets a ... device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present...

Last time I checked, even a primer in an empty shell, when struck, explodes, albeit a small explosion.

Bells, whistles, other audible alarms, as well as visible lights like chem lights would probably be permissible. 12 gauge alarms, probably get you a trip to the bench to pay a fine and have your prints on file.

Be safe.

[tmckay2]

In a shtf scenario the laws don't matter. Without being in a shtf scenario don't even mess with it. The law can be stretched to fit all sorts of things.

[jerrymrc]

Anyone have these?

"12 Gauge Perimeter Alarm System"

http://www.americanspecialtyammo.com/Gadgets.html

Might be useful to have a few in the supplies.

As has been said in current times these are illegal. In other times there may not be anyone around to worry about.

And you can build your own with a piece of 2X4 and a mouse/rat trap.[Flower]

[SuperiorDG]

Just as effective and legal.

http://www.protectmefirst.com/product_images/a/939/PAL-100TR__14554_zoom.jpg

Product Description

The MINI TRAVEL ALARM with PIR SENSOR is an effective low cost motion alarm that can be used to effectively to deter an assailant. It can be activated by just pulling the alarm cord located at the top of the unit or can detect motion up to 9 feet away. Emits a loud 15 second, 100dB blast making an impending criminal cower and run. Just slide the cover down exposing the infrared sensor and the off/auto switch. Turn the switch to auto, and the sensor will start detecting motion in 60 seconds. Contains an LED flashlight, and its convienent size makes it perfect for concealing and traveling. Uses three AG13 batteries (included).





http://www.protectmefirst.com/products/Travel-Alarm-w%7B47%7D-PIR-Sensor.html

[275RLTW]

Seems there's always some genius "Google warrior" in every group. Remember kids, its all fun and games until someone searches only ONE source of information and ruins it for everyone else based on a single point of limited content. [Help]


Look up a little research on "explosion" and tell us again how this is illegal. Inquiring minds want to know.....




Badger

I ran a UXO training school and I'm an explosives instructor for Le/.mil What do you want to know about explosions? Perhaps you should do some reaserch before running your mouth.

[flan7211]

Agreed illegal. Question though, if a shotgun shell can be defined as an explosive wouldn't that make all ammo an ATF destructive device?

[275RLTW]

Agreed illegal. Question though, if a shotgun shell can be defined as an explosive wouldn't that make all ammo an ATF destructive device?

Does not meet the Net Explosive Weight requirements for DD

[rbeau30]

Nice to know! Exactly why I keep you fellas around. Keeps me out of trouble! :-)


illegal (http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/Colorado/) to use.

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons



(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2012-22-303&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=8e4df935095f32a547286cdcc91523d2), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=834f39a0598c1c1415dc2db763274725&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-12-106%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=4&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-12-105.1&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLbVzB-zSkAW&_md5=e1def7b3d6b0bc25035b4eaed0a2e388), as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.

[Wulf202]

Pull string fireworks are available in the grocery store year round. popits can be spread out in hallways and when the zombies step on them you'll know.

[SideShow Bob]

Since these are illegal, I am not doubting if they are, why isn't the alphabet stooges or CBI going after the sellers or manufacturers of these ?
Is it easier because they are lazy ? And that it is easier to prosecute the little guy end user ?
Or are these another one of those catch 22 items where they a legal to own, but illegal to use items ?
Can someone with good authority or legal experience explain this to us unwashed masses ?

[cstone]

The statute has language about leaving them out and unattended. I haven't seen anything about possessing or manufacturing them as being illegal.

If we get to the point of total anarchy and real SHTF, why stop at a pop-it or small flash bang. FRONT TOWARD ENEMY should do the trick. Since we are going that far, we are talking about lots of det cord, automatic weapons and armored vehicles aren't we? [Flower]

Be safe.

[275RLTW]

Since these are illegal, I am not doubting if they are, why isn't the alphabet stooges or CBI going after the sellers or manufacturers of these ?
Is it easier because they are lazy ? And that it is easier to prosecute the little guy end user ?
Or are these another one of those catch 22 items where they a legal to own, but illegal to use items ?
Can someone with good authority or legal experience explain this to us unwashed masses ?


State law, not federal. Just like the prohibitation against the claymore mine hitch covers here in Colorado.

[Great-Kazoo]

I ran a UXO training school and I'm an explosives instructor for Le/.mil What do you want to know about explosions? Perhaps you should do some reaserch before running your mouth.


He can't He's more concerned about my cranial to colon interface than facts.
Gotta go , shit, it's dark in here!

[Badger]

Does not meet the Net Explosive Weight requirements for DD


Hence the point.










Badger

[SpikeMike]

It won't matter in a SHTF situation. LEOs will be trying to save themselves, not police the population. I would even go as far as saying most of them will abandon their posts in lieu of protecting their families. No disrespect intended here. But in my mind, my family, my dog, my friends, my home will always come first.

[275RLTW]

Hence the point.




Badger

Nevermind...not worth it.

[cstone]

V3FnpaWQJO0

[rbeau30]

Can't we all just get along? LOL

What I am getting from all the useful information posted here is that it is legal to buy/posess, but when it is actually set up as a "Booby Trap" it is illegal. (Implied meaning can be derived from a 'TEOWAWKI' or 'SHTF' situation.)

Thanks!

[Omicron]

Getting away from all the legal discussion, yes these "12 Gauge Perimeter Alarm System" thingies could come in handy for a variety of reasons. However $30 each is a bit steep when, as Jerry pointed out, one can construct something that works as well from a mousetrap. The motion sensing electronic gizmo SuperiorDG posted above costs closer to $10, so somewhat more economical, although you have to worry about the batteries dying.

I'm more intrigued about how does one protect the perimeter without such devices, barring having someone keeping watch? Ideally it would be something that alerts you not only of the direction of approach of the intruder (so effectively, which part of the perimeter has been breached), but does so in a way that alerts you and not the intruder. Also needs to have a little bit of range to it, because what good is perimeter alerting if you don't have time to react to a breach?

The closest thing I've been able to come up with is some sort of a laser-"tripwire" system broadcasting to an alarm console. I'm sure someone builds these, but they're probably crazy expensive, and/or I haven't found them yet. Another possibility is some "game cameras" that sense motion then send an alert and picture via wireless signal to the base camp receiver. I've heard these are available, but again, have not had a chance to do much research. And of course there's always wireless CCTV cameras, assuming you have someone monitoring them at the base camp.

But as with all technology-based solutions to a problem, you run the risk of batteries dying and/or it failing just when you need it most. So I'm interested in any ideas people have that could use a low-tech approach.

Thoughts, anyone? [Coffee]

[00tec]

You could probably build something neat with an IR laser diode, a few mirrors, an IR sensitive photocell and a few other components. Power it from the house or car battery so you don't have to deal with small cells. Setup would be a pain unless you had night vision or a digital camera to see the IR beam.

[brianut]

$18 wireless driveway alert system.
Ideally they would have different frequency to know where the breach was, maybe you can change the tone or something.

Just the basic idea

http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html

[rocktot]

They make $20.00 motion sensors/battery operated, on ebay.

[jerrymrc]

More thoughts. Many want to play what is legal or not but being an S&P forum sometimes the rules go out the window.

In this world nobody in there right mind would ever advocate breaking the law. Sometimes one must set aside this and wonder. If there was no "Law" what do I do?

So things to think about. Some items require no power and are purely mechanical devices. Some require batteries and assume that everything that was is still here.

I kind of take the middle of the road approach. Certain basics will always be there in my case. I am an old guy and love the simplicity of mechanical things but understand that some electronics must be available.

In this case I am in favor of watches and the 2"X4"/rat trap. [Coffee]

[rbeau30]

Thank you Omicron for getting this back on track. I do have the 18-20 motion sensor thing, Basically it is an IR sensor you put in your yard on a fence or tree, and when the IR sensor (which looks like much home alarm motion sensors you would have in your hallways) is tripped a Chime much like a doorbell sounds in another unit that I typically keep on my nightstand.

I have one in my back yard since my house is backed up to a geenbelt and it is the only one without a 6 foot wooden fence. Works good, range is nice, but batteries are annoying. Have to constantly check if the batteries are dead.

The mouse trap thing is awesome but there are legal rammifications to setting a booby trap I guess. In SHTF situation anything goes. I will probably look into that. I would prefer the intruder realize instantly that they are where they are not welcome and whatever they tripped to be loud enough to notify me.

I was just thinking that a 12 guage blank going off in my back yard would be enough... but being illegal and in the People's Republic of Aurora, probably not wise.

[Omicron]

Happy to help. Yep I think you're thinking along the right lines. Personally I'd get that fence up if ya can for another layer... no need to make yourself a bigger target than you need to be...

[Wulf202]

my batteries last over a year in mine. what brand are you using?

mine is from radio shack and has great range