View Full Version : CCW and establishments that serve alcohol
DD977GM2
07-24-2012, 13:09
I dont want to derail the thread that this was brought up in, but
for those of you that CCW and go to restaurants etc that serve alcohol and
specifically do not drink even a sip as one poster stated, what do you do at home??????
I for one have a firearm within arms reach of me or on me wherever I am in my home.
I dont drink a lot but I enjoy a couple of beers and genuinely enjoy the taste of beer
so I have it with almost every dinner.
What is the diffrence with me carrying on me at home or if I am at a restaurant
and have a beer with dinner even though I am CCWing????
This is all hypothetical for the sake of discussion
I won't drink while I am CCing outside of the house, but I don't think it's the end of the world if you had a beer at a restaurant. Sometimes when I am at home I will have a beer or two. The way I see it, a couple beers don't negate my right to defend myself.
That said, guns and alcohol dont mix very well
dwalker460
07-24-2012, 13:16
Your home is different than public venues.
Its a misdemenor in public if you are intoxicated and CCW, I'm sure a leo will jump in soon.
cfortune
07-24-2012, 13:19
What if you're intoxicated at home and stop an intruder with lethal force?
What level of BAC do you need to be legally intoxicated?
Chad4000
07-24-2012, 13:21
I have wondered about this too....
although it's pretty obvious that you shouldnt be drinking while firearms are around, i have often felt like the situation where you would need it the most is when there are drunk people around...
What if you're intoxicated at home and stop an intruder with lethal force?
I think this falls into that gray area.
Great question, Gabe. I really do fear the friday evening when the unthinkable happens and I've tossed back a couple glasses of Wild Turkey... I'd rather explain that I'm entitled to feel 100% safe in my own home than have doubt or hesitation that will cost me my life.
DD977GM2
07-24-2012, 13:28
What if you're intoxicated at home and stop an intruder with lethal force?
This is also a question I wouldnt mind some answers and discussion to.
SuperiorDG
07-24-2012, 13:30
What level of BAC do you need to be legally intoxicated?
The same as driving. .08.
Chad4000
07-24-2012, 13:31
This is also a question I wouldnt mind some answers and discussion to.
I would venture to guess that it might be harder to defend against, but the premises would still be the same.
they would be looking for sound judgement.
did you hear something outside and go looking? probably different if you are drunk.
did somebody bust the door down and rush into the house? probably still ok defending yourself..
The same as driving. .08.
So tehnically you're good up until that point
SuperiorDG
07-24-2012, 13:33
This is also a question I wouldnt mind some answers and discussion to.
I think if you are clearly in danger the Make My Day law would trump you being drunk. But depending on the DA you might have to prove it in court.
Chad4000
07-24-2012, 13:37
I think if you are clearly in danger the Make My Day law would trump you being drunk. But depending on the DA you might have to prove it in court.
yeah that's what Im thinking too....
The same as driving. .08.
This is not technically correct. A DUI can be issued below .08 if the arresting LEO has reason to believe that you are not in complete control of yourself. That is why you have to do a roadside sobriety test. If it was only based on blood alcohol content, they would only give you a breathalyzer.
I have a friend that received a DUI after blowing a .05. The charges were reduced when he went to court (not by much), but the arresting LEO said that he failed the road side test and the fact that he crossed the white line while driving was proof enough that he was not in control of his vehicle. The shitty part was that the white line was while he was merging, and he was just one of those naturally uncoordinated guys. He would have failed the roadside test any day of the week, but he was on the wrong side of the law.
Long story short, the LEO has some discretion as to whether or not you are a danger to others. All it takes is a secondary offence, say a bar fight that you were involved in, a positive BAC and you are walking the line and it could go either way. Not worth the risk.
I think if you are clearly in danger the Make My Day law would trump you being drunk. But depending on the DA you might have to prove it in court.
This is end result for all of the questions. If you have a firearm and have been drinking, if anything goes wrong and you are talking to LE, be prepared to take it up in court. You are going to be fighting a hard battle to prove that you were not intoxicated and if deadly force was used, I would be surprised if you come out unscathed.
What if you're intoxicated at home and stop an intruder with lethal force?
Wouldn't that fall under the Make My Day law?
mcantar18c
07-24-2012, 15:57
If you're carrying and you have a beer or two at a restaurant, big f*ckin deal. If you can't stick within your limits with alcohol, you probably aren't responsible enough to be carrying a firearm. Now if you're going out to meet some buddies at the bar or something and plan on drinking a lot, it might be a better idea to leave it in the car.
If you're carrying and you have a beer or two at a restaurant, big f*ckin deal. If you can't stick within your limits with alcohol, you probably aren't responsible enough to be carrying a firearm. Now if you're going out to meet some buddies at the bar or something and plan on drinking a lot, it might be a better idea to leave it at home.
Fixed for you, just in case you don't want to risk a break in, because if you're too intoxicated to handle a gun, you're too intoxicated to drive, and vis-a-versa. [Beer]
Bailey Guns
07-24-2012, 16:16
Your home is different than public venues.
No, it isn't. Not in terms of being in possession of a firearm and being intoxicated.
Bailey Guns
07-24-2012, 16:28
There are presumptive numerical limits to a person's BAC for being charged with DUI (.08) or DWAI (.05). The limits are also lower for operators of commercial vehicles.
There is no such level for determining being under the influence or intoxicated in a non-driving event. It's a subjective judgment call by the officer. However...those numbers are (or were) widely used by officers when collecting evidence to show someone was intoxicated or under the influence.
And, yes, a person can be charged with DUI with a BAC under .08 in Colorado. I've personally charged a young girl with DUI (and won the case) when her BAC was under .02 (I don't recall specifically what it was).
Bottom line...if you're intoxicated/under the influence (drugs or liquor) and in possession of a firearm (you can exercise immediate control of the firearm) you've committed the offense of Prohibited Use of a Weapon. Regardless of whether or not you are at home or anywhere else.
If you happen to be home and have the misfortune of having to exercise your Make My Day rights, and you're under the influence of alcohol, it's possible your judgment and ability to act reasonably will be called into question. Even the Make My Day law requires a person to act reasonably. Alcohol affects the decision making process...so it could be an aggravating factor in formulating your defense.
SuperiorDG
07-24-2012, 16:46
There are presumptive numerical limits to a person's BAC for being charged with DUI (.08) or DWAI (.05). The limits are also lower for operators of commercial vehicles.
There is no such level for determining being under the influence or intoxicated in a non-driving event. It's a subjective judgment call by the officer. However...those numbers are (or were) widely used by officers when collecting evidence to show someone was intoxicated or under the influence.
And, yes, a person can be charged with DUI with a BAC under .08 in Colorado. I've personally charged a young girl with DUI (and won the case) when her BAC was under .02 (I don't recall specifically what it was).
Bottom line...if you're intoxicated/under the influence (drugs or liquor) and in possession of a firearm (you can exercise immediate control of the firearm) you've committed the offense of Prohibited Use of a Weapon. Regardless of whether or not you are at home or anywhere else.
If you happen to be home and have the misfortune of having to exercise your Make My Day rights, and you're under the influence of alcohol, it's possible your judgment and ability to act reasonably will be called into question. Even the Make My Day law requires a person to act reasonably. Alcohol affects the decision making process...so it could be an aggravating factor in formulating your defense.
That sucks!!!
Well if I am intoxicated and someone breaks in my house I am then 10' tall and bullet proof and will beat the hell out of them without the use of a firearm.
Make my Day,,, hic.
Bailey Guns
07-24-2012, 16:55
Well if I am intoxicated and someone breaks in my house I am then 10' tall and bullet proof and will beat the hell out of them without the use of a firearm.
Make my Day,,, hic.
Better not beat 'em with that big ole swollen hand you've got. Could be considered excessive force...
I guess I am not understanding the need for the strawman here...
Longnecktipper
07-24-2012, 19:27
I'm not saying to do this. But , if something happens at your house and the need to protect yourself with a firearm arises and you have been drinking. Say you had a few drinks after the occurrence to settle your nerves. Maybe I should be a lawyer ?
There are presumptive numerical limits to a person's BAC for being charged with DUI (.08) or DWAI (.05). The limits are also lower for operators of commercial vehicles.
There is no such level for determining being under the influence or intoxicated in a non-driving event. It's a subjective judgment call by the officer. However...those numbers are (or were) widely used by officers when collecting evidence to show someone was intoxicated or under the influence.
And, yes, a person can be charged with DUI with a BAC under .08 in Colorado. I've personally charged a young girl with DUI (and won the case) when her BAC was under .02 (I don't recall specifically what it was).
Bottom line...if you're intoxicated/under the influence (drugs or liquor) and in possession of a firearm (you can exercise immediate control of the firearm) you've committed the offense of Prohibited Use of a Weapon. Regardless of whether or not you are at home or anywhere else.
If you happen to be home and have the misfortune of having to exercise your Make My Day rights, and you're under the influence of alcohol, it's possible your judgment and ability to act reasonably will be called into question. Even the Make My Day law requires a person to act reasonably. Alcohol affects the decision making process...so it could be an aggravating factor in formulating your defense.
That is like a single beer.....
Why did you do that? Why make life that hard on someone over a single beer?
Bailey Guns
07-24-2012, 20:04
That is like a single beer.....
Why did you do that? Why make life that hard on someone over a single beer?
Because I saw a mother and her 4 year old daughter, who was unconscious from a head injury, flown away in a helicopter after the drunk 17 year old girl ran over them in a parking lot. The girl was laughing because she thought her dad was gonna "kill" her for putting a big dent in the hood and breaking the windshield of his car.
Any more questions on why I was so hard on that poor little girl?
Tinelement
07-24-2012, 20:09
This is another completely worthless thread.
Seriously guys?
If you're an adult and wanna have a few beers, have some. As everyone always says, "concealed is concealed". If, you wanna go out and get puking wasted, leave the gun at home. Don't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. If you get shithoused and draw and kill someone, deal the consequences.
As Baily Guns pointed out, any LE will fuck you if they wanna be a prick.
Use your own judgement.
encorehunter
07-24-2012, 20:10
A lot of accidents happen when someone only has one or two beers. Try looking into the eyes of a 4 year old girl knowing she is going to die, and you can't do anything about it, all because someone thought they were ok to drive after having a beer or two.
XC700116
07-24-2012, 20:14
That is like a single beer.....
Why did you do that? Why make life that hard on someone over a single beer?
Stoned out of her goard maybe???
IDK, I'd like to hear it too, just to settle the cat's curiosity.
Edit: Nevermind 205'd
I do/did know some women who would be damn near fall down drunk after a single wine cooler and wouldn't want them behind the wheel, meanwhile BAC was probably well below the legal limit.
Conversely I've seen people that would be contenders for a high score BAC and completely in control of their faculties. They were of course very well practiced in the art of power drinking too.
It effects nearly everyone differently.
XC700116
07-24-2012, 20:21
Because I saw a mother and her 4 year old daughter, who was unconscious from a head injury, flown away in a helicopter after the drunk 17 year old girl ran over them in a parking lot. The girl was laughing because she thought her dad was gonna "kill" her for putting a big dent in the hood and breaking the windshield of his car.
Any more questions on why I was so hard on that poor little girl?
And it's stories like these that remind me how difficult your job is, and that I could never do it.
I'm not going to take the high road and say I don't drink when I carry because I will have one..
You are not doing anything out of the norm of society.
Should I have to use my gun to defend myself, all other options were exhausted and I was thinking reasonably.
If I feel the need to have more than one, I will either not go out w/ it, or won't drink.. chances are.. I don't have more than one. [NoEvil]
Bailey Guns
07-24-2012, 20:24
And it's stories like these that remind me how difficult your job is, and that I could never do it.
Just to be clear, I haven't been employed in that capacity for several years. The above incident occurred in 94 or 95.
The way it was explained to me . . . and this may well be wrong . . . was that BAC is not necessarily a factor. If you are at home or on your property, drinking a beer, even if you only had a single sip -- and you have a loaded firearm on your person or within close proximity you are in technical violation of the statute. You do not need to be intoxicated, just drinking alcohol with a loaded firearm present.
If that is accurate, you would be in violation for having a beer inside your own home if you are a gun owner. This law has never been enforced that way, although the way it is written it probably could be.
Byte Stryke
07-24-2012, 20:35
What if you're intoxicated at home and stop an intruder with lethal force?
you'll wish I had been sober and shot you instead of Momma...
"Stop" isn't part of her vocabulary and she aims slightly lower of center mass... 'ahem'...
[Eek3]
XC700116
07-24-2012, 20:39
Just to be clear, I haven't been employed in that capacity for several years. The above incident occurred in 94 or 95.
Ah, well, I couldn't do the job you used to do then. I still have a lot of respect for good officers and the job they have to do. [Beer]
Byte Stryke
07-24-2012, 20:45
This is another completely worthless thread.
Seriously guys?
If you're an adult and wanna have a few beers, have some. As everyone always says, "concealed is concealed". If, you wanna go out and get puking wasted, leave the gun at home. Don't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. If you get shithoused and draw and kill someone, deal the consequences.
As Baily Guns pointed out, any LE will fuck you if they wanna be a prick.
Use your own judgement.
wait a second...
you are talking about that one thing,
you know, where you do something and you are like all grown up and making decisions...
Hold on, I'll google it (http://bit.ly/NtYKRX)...
;)
Because I saw a mother and her 4 year old daughter, who was unconscious from a head injury, flown away in a helicopter after the drunk 17 year old girl ran over them in a parking lot. The girl was laughing because she thought her dad was gonna "kill" her for putting a big dent in the hood and breaking the windshield of his car.
Any more questions on why I was so hard on that poor little girl?
Well now that you include the rest of the story, that makes more sense. Had a feeling you had left a little out for one reason or another. That is an awful situation.
Bumping this this thread because I didn't have time to respond this week. I see someone stated that the legal limit for firearm possession and alcohol was the same as the legal limit for driving. I challenge you to cite a statute that backs this up specifically when speaking to firearm possession and not operation of a motor vehicle. Unless something has changed there is NO 'legal limit' for firearm possession. What this means is that if you blow a 0.01 because you had some cough syrup and are in possession of a firearm you could be cited by the officer. I would be very leery of using or suggesting the use of the guidelines laid out for motor vehicle operation because as far as I know this doesn't apply at all.
Motor vehicle guidelines and the definition of "under the influence" are 2 different things. Under the influence, by alcohol or another substance, is determined by how it affects you and is not determined by a numerical value or 1 specific test. It is subjective and yes, a very grey area. Whether out and about or at home, if you are impaired in any way, or think that you are impared...put the guns away. It's not a difficult concept.
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