Local blogger on Concealed Carry

[ChadAmberg]

This local guy got linked to from Fox News.
http://blog.frankmtaylor.com/2012/07/21/yes-you-can-shutup-about-colorado-and-keep-your-opinions-on-gun-control-to-yourself/

My take is that he thinks concealed carry is worthless since we're not all combat vets who have killed many people before and would freeze up.

Yes training is good. Mindset is good. But just like any gun is better than no gun, any one who is willing to fight back is better than a room full of victims.

In another thread, an 89 year old lady fought off home invaders. She must have fought off the Chinese in Frozen Chosin to be able to do that.

[kanekutter05]

This local guy got linked to from Fox News.
http://blog.frankmtaylor.com/2012/07/21/yes-you-can-shutup-about-colorado-and-keep-your-opinions-on-gun-control-to-yourself/

My take is that he thinks concealed carry is worthless since we're not all combat vets who have killed many people before and would freeze up.

Yes training is good. Mindset is good. But just like any gun is better than no gun, any one who is willing to fight back is better than a room full of victims.

In another thread, an 89 year old lady fought off home invaders. She must have fought off the Chinese in Frozen Chosin to be able to do that.

I read that earlier today too. I don't know about you guys(well actually I do, but I had to transition somehow [Flower])...but I seek out as much training as I possibly can from those who HAVE received military/police training. It's as if this blogger makes it seem like that's impossible to find in the civilian sector.

Now I don't disagree that you actually need to train as your skills degenerate after a period of time...but I think this guy takes it a little too far. I'm very confident in my abilities in condition orange. I've never been in condition red but I feel like my training would at least not put me into the helpless category.

[SuperiorDG]

"Proficiency deteriorates without practice. When was the last time you fired your gun? Police and military practice regularly for their jobs. You do it irregularly for fun."

I would bet money that I'm more proficient then 90% of the cops out there. I shoot weekly and train, dry fire, almost daily. Most cops only train to qualify once or twice a year.

[Wiggity]

Well clearly people like the blogger should not carry because they would freeze up and do not have a strong enough mindset to accomplish the task.


What a girl

[OneGuy67]

Most cops only train to qualify once or twice a year.

I qualify quarterly and am required to be at the range monthly for drills. Range days are an all day thing. I've worked for several agencies in my career and all had this requirement.

[SuperiorDG]

I qualify quarterly and am required to be at the range monthly for drills. Range days are an all day thing. I've worked for several agencies in my career and all had this requirement.

Good to hear. I've heard differently from several LEO. I think, however, most of the population (LEO and CCW) on this site train more then the blogger thinks.

[flan7211]

Ok for all who think that guns or uses for them are only for LE's and Mil. Fuck off. Welcome to the land of the free.

[Byte Stryke]

and I know LEOs like my Brother that take their weapon to the range and practice right before qualification.
Qualify.

See you again next year...

[v1p3r66]

Some of what he writes is concerning to me too... IMO I think the qualifications to get a CCW can be concerning, WHAT IF someone with lack of training shot someone else...
BUT as far as I know, this hasn't happened. Mass murders have, and plenty of CCW holders have stopped violence against themselves and others.

My mind can play all the WHAT IF games it wants, but truth be told (and facts added up)... we're better off with CCW than not. [Coffee]

My contribution would be to make more CCW holders conscience of what they can and cannot do. We're not all hero's with super shot powers... but we can be trained and do our best to survive.

[Tinelement]

Wow. This blogger dude frank is a pos.

He probably moved here for the skiing and rocks his Wrangler jeans and Duster at the top of the Lake Shoots at Breck and then has to have ski patrol come rescue his ass.

Seen it a hundred times.

[Whistler]

We practice & drill daily as many have said they do as well but aside from that training or not I do not have the right to restrict the right of a law-abiding citizen to protect themselves. Choosing not to be the only guy in the gun fight without a gun really shouldn't be subject to someone else's idea of what constitutes minimum qualifications.

[TFOGGER]

I can't get the blog to come up, but my sense is that it would be a waste of time. I will continue to train for a day that I hope never comes.

[Whistler]

I can't get the blog to come up, but my sense is that it would be a waste of time. I will continue to train for a day that I hope never comes.

You didn't miss anything.

[Ronin13]

This guy is the reason we need to stop allowing these tomfoolery-prone Texans into our great state. F*ck Texas.[Coffee]

[Whistler]

This guy is the reason we need to stop allowing these tomfoolery-prone Texans into our great state. F*ck Texas.[Coffee]

Smile when you say that, pilgrim. [Beer]

[SAnd]

Remember that the mere presence of guns is a deterrent. Most bad guys do not go to someplace that allows concealed carry. I doubt Holm's would have gone to the theater with a gun if it was commonly known to have half a dozen armed people there at every show. Even if none of the were highly trained.

We're all better off if people don't even attempt a crime because they are afraid of armed citizens.

John Lott addressed the deterrence influence of concealed carry in his first book.

On the other hand bad guys have all kinds of other ways killing people where they don't have to worry about if anybody is armed. I think if Holm's hadn't been able to get guns he would have used some other means of mass killing. He may have been able to kill more people if he used some other means. Remember the bombing in Oklahoma. It's nearly impossible to stop someone with that goal.

[Clint45]

My take is that he thinks concealed carry is worthless since we're not all combat vets who have killed many people before and would freeze up.


Nearly everyone freezes up under fire, even if only for a second. The more experience you have under fire, and the more experience you have metabolizing adrenaline, the shorter the freeze and the easier it is to break. Very few people can respond instantly AND effectively to an unexpected and immediate threat -- but people like that have different wiring from other folks. A momentary freeze is a normal and expected reaction. You train to break the freeze.

Yeah, an undertrained and inexperienced civilian with a CCW may not be the best solution, but if everyone in the room is getting shot anyway, and he is in a position to stop the threat, one or two additional stray rounds is an acceptable risk. In many police shootings half the rounds fired miss the target, and police have regular training. In my opinion it is pretty much a moot point. The average mass shooting is limited to family members and co-workers. Mass school shootings are rare. Random mass shootings of strangers are rarer still.

[Rucker61]

Yeah, an undertrained and inexperienced civilian with a CCW may not be the best solution, but if everyone in the room is getting shot anyway, and he is in a position to stop the threat, one or two additional stray rounds is an acceptable risk.


This. Why folks seem to think that the risk of getting accidently shot by a CCW holder is so much higher, and so much worse, than getting deliberately shot by a crook is beyond understanding.




In many police shootings half the rounds fired miss the target, and police have regular training. In my opinion it is pretty much a moot point. The average mass shooting is limited to family members and co-workers. Mass school shootings are rare. Random mass shootings of strangers are rarer still.

I think someone published some numbers recently that showed that shootings involving the police had a mistarget percentage many times of the equivalent civilian-involved shootings.

[OneGuy67]

In many police shootings half the rounds fired miss the target, and police have regular training. In my opinion it is pretty much a moot point.

Don't get me wrong when I say this, but we teach all new cops and beat it into the older cops at every range training that there is an attorney attached to each and every round fired in the course of duty, especially those rounds that do not hit the target. Collateral damage can destroy your career, take your house and all your money and possessions. It is not like in the military, where fire suppression and fire superiority is taught. That is one of the hardest things to re-teach former military and especially combat vets.

[spyder]

Why does the news always choose the stupid people to follow?......

[Rucker61]

Why does the news always choose the stupid people to follow?......

Because smart people don't talk to the media.

[josh7328]

I can pretty safely say that many of you guys on this forum are much better trained than the average soldier in the army. It never ceases to amaze me how soldiers don't know how to operate a bolt release, and can't hit sh*t with their rifles anyway. Pathetic. Before I joined, I honestly expected to be adequately trained by the Army... Boy was that a joke. I've got 90% of my limited firearms training from civilians.

[josh7328]

I think someone published some numbers recently that showed that shootings involving the police had a mistarget percentage many times of the equivalent civilian-involved shootings.
Just a guess, but maybe it's because police shootings usually happen at slightly longer ranges than civilian shootings? I've never shot anybody, but I imagine that the majority of civilian S/D shootings would happen at contact distance to just out of arms reach, etc. Since cops usually approach perps as opposed to perps approaching the civvi victim, I imagine that they usually have more distance between shooter and shootee. Just talking out of my ass. I don't have any stats to back this up.

[Ronin13]

I can pretty safely say that many of you guys on this forum are much better trained than the average soldier in the army. It never ceases to amaze me how soldiers don't know how to operate a bolt release, and can't hit sh*t with their rifles anyway. Pathetic. Before I joined, I honestly expected to be adequately trained by the Army... Boy was that a joke. I've got 90% of my limited firearms training from civilians.

Should have been in my unit. The second I showed "Above average skills/knowledge" our schools NCO put me out at every range to help instruct... both pistol and M4. I did my best to make sure every soldier in our unit deployed ready to use their weapon effectively, good, bad, rain or shine. [Beer][AR15]

[josh7328]

Should have been in my unit. The second I showed "Above average skills/knowledge" our schools NCO put me out at every range to help instruct... both pistol and M4. I did my best to make sure every soldier in our unit deployed ready to use their weapon effectively, good, bad, rain or shine. [Beer][AR15]
I DEFINATELY was not in your unit. Haha. I had one leader once (a member here) who gave a damn to train soldiers. It was refreshing. Then I was moved from that unit. [Rant1]

[Ronin13]

I DEFINATELY was not in your unit. Haha. I had one leader once (a member here) who gave a damn to train soldiers. It was refreshing. Then I was moved from that unit. [Rant1]

"This unit's standards are not very high," said a friend of mine who I basically taught from scratch (goes to show how they are in BCT these days) how to strip, clean, use and correct malfunctions with his M4... he said that he was better equipped with his knowledge of his weapon than most of the NCOs in his new unit at Ft. Campbell. All this while I was a CPL... goes to show some people just don't take the important stuff seriously.

In talking about this guy, I think people put too much emphasis on military training. I was in a logistics unit and worked in our PSD team for a while, that aspect aside (because we had to be on top of our game) our BN didn't do a lot of range activities. Before being put on the PSD team I pressed and pressed for more trigger time to hone my skills- that and I refused to accept anything less than expert on Qual days. I have friends now, after being out, that are civilians who I go shooting with a lot and I feel that they are better equipped to handle a violent situation where a gun needs to be employed than some of the Army trained guys from my unit. How they react is not dependent on training or experience, it's dependent on mindset, training, confidence and many other factors. I've seen hardened combat vets lock up in stressful situations, and I've seen guys who only go paper punching excel under stress. You can't assume that just because someone has training or experience that they're equipped to handle a stressful situation... everyone is different.