Good news about the UN gun treaty

[Wiggity]

Jul 26 2012
Sen. Moran and 50 Senators: Second Amendment Rights are not Negotiable

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator Jerry Moran (R-KS) today led 50 senators in expressing grave concern about the dangers posed to Americans’ Second Amendment rights by the United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty. The 51 senators notified President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton of their intent to oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding American gun owners. The opposition is strong enough to block the treaty from Senate passage, as treaties submitted to the U.S. Senate require approval of two-thirds of Senators present to be ratified.

In the letter, the senators wrote: “As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your administration not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure – if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference – that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense. As members of the United States Senate, we will oppose the ratification of any Arms Trade Treaty that falls short of this standard.”

“Our country’s sovereignty and the rights of American citizens must not be infringed upon by the United Nations,” Sen. Moran said. “Today, the Senate sends a powerful message to the Obama Administration: an Arms Trade Treaty that does not protect ownership of civilian firearms will fail in the Senate. Our firearm freedoms are not negotiable.”

“The NRA, our four million members and the tens of millions of law-abiding Americans who own firearms will never surrender our right to keep and bear arms to the United Nations,” said Chris Cox, executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. “That is why the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty has been met with the full opposition of the NRA. We are grateful for the efforts of these senators, led by Senator Jerry Moran, to oppose this encroachment of international tyranny.”

[Scanker19]

Damn, Gina. Damn.

[Bailey Guns]

Can I get an aMEN-ah?

[sellersm]

aMEN-ah!

[BPTactical]

It should not be signed into the first place.

What about the douchenozzle senators that did NOT side with the above 51???

[DSull]

You all know the drill but they can get my gun out of my cold dead hand!!!

[Great-Kazoo]

Got to love election year. Come 1/12/2013 IF Romney does not win it and or the GOP has lost control of either house we might as well buy some very slippery lubricant. Cause it's going to hurt.

[sabot_round]

It should not be signed into the first place.

What about the douchbag senators that did NOT side with the above 51???

Fixed it for you!! They do not qualify to go "in".[Flower]

[TEAMRICO]

Got to love election year. Come 1/12/2013 IF Romney does not win it and or the GOP has lost control of either house we might as well buy some very slippery lubricant. Cause it's going to hurt.

CLP....that's the only lube I'm gonna need to get more of!

[BPTactical]

CLP....that's the only lube I'm gonna need to get more of!

But it burns off at high speed[Tooth]

[Electromagic]

Senator Moran et al know the US constitution as well as tough political topics. US wrestled with arming Libyians and see same issue in democratic rising of Egypt and Syria, at opposition of Russia and China. Selling democracy seems to imply a populace not too scared to speak up and vote. US seems to be torn between two sides of the gun debates. Recent history is showing that the Bill of Rights was necesary and correct, including amendment 2. It is not wise to have UN rewrite US B of R.

[Zundfolge]

Just keep in mind they may have an underhanded "under the radar" method of bypassing the Senate on this ... of course it will require Obama win the election and the Dems keep the senate.

[boulder888]

Glad that treaty went nowhere.

[hatidua]

Glad that treaty went nowhere.

-that might be premature.

[StagLefty]

But it burns off at high speed[Tooth]

Not at my age [ROFL1]

[Bowtie]

Bennet and Udaul were not any of the 8 democrats that signed the letter.

[BPTactical]

Not at my age [ROFL1]

At your age the only thing you do fast is forget[Muaha]

[SAnd]

Just keep in mind they may have an underhanded "under the radar" method of bypassing the Senate on this ... of course it will require Obama win the election and the Dems keep the senate.

Watch this for one method of making it easier to bypass the Senate-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeJpXLsVCI

[BPTactical]

Something to consider- We do not know the text of this Treaty. There may very well be sections of it that are construed as an "Agreement". An agreement does not have to be approved or ratified. It would not have any bearing on our Constitution but it may very well define things such as importation of foreign made arms and components.
Imagine no firearms/components of foreign manufacture being imported.
No foreign made ammunition.
No parts kits.

Even if not ratified it can still have very serious and deep implications to the American firearms community.

[josh7328]

Something to consider- We do not know the text of this Treaty. There may very well be sections of it that are construed as an "Agreement". An agreement does not have to be approved or ratified. It would not have any bearing on our Constitution but it may very well define things such as importation of foreign made arms and components.
Imagine no firearms/components of foreign manufacture being imported.
No foreign made ammunition.
No parts kits.

Even if not ratified it can still have very serious and deep implications to the American firearms community.
Yeah, man that sucks. I guess Glock and XD parts and guns will be harder to find, more expensive, or just run dry. No more cheap-ish ammo either? FML...

[Zundfolge]

Well Hillary is going to sign it today ... lets see what happens.

[kanekutter05]

The numbers a couple days ago were 58 senators. Did 7 of them turncoat over to the dark side? Or was that a misinformed number?

[Whistler]

This sounds bad http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-gun-treaty-does-ban-guns/

"The text of the anticipated and hotly-contested United Nations Arms Trade Treaty has been leaked, with the treaty itself set to be adopted and signed by member States as early as tomorrow, July 27. President Obama, today joining the chorus for gun control..."

"Masked behind the language of promoting peace in an international world by preventing genocide, the UN has unleashed a great Trojan Horse that calls upon States to enact national legislation sufficient to meet the minimum goals outlined in this treaty– including gun registries, background checks, import/export controls and more for arms of all types, including small & conventional weapons. “Each State Party shall adopt national legislation or other appropriate national measures regulations and policies as may be necessary to implement the obligations of this Treaty,” the treaty text states in part."

[CO Hugh]

Bennet and Udaul were not any of the 8 democrats that signed the letter.

Remember that when you see these two posers and their fake Bull Moose Sportsmans group at outdoor shows telling you how pro gun they are.

[TEAMRICO]

FOX say this is falling apart!!!
GOOD!

[Zundfolge]

FOX say this is falling apart!!!
GOOD!
Yep, looks like we get a little reprieve.

UN fails to reach deal on global arms treaty as US asks for more time. (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/27/un-fails-to-reach-deal-on-global-arms-trade-treaty-as-us-asks-for-more-time/?test=latestnews)

[Richard K]

According to Dick Morris the treaty would have to be renounced by the senate or POTUS. Harry Reid will not bring it to a vote in the senate, as he has done with many other bills, and it will, therefore, not be renounced and will become law.

[gos]

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Arms-treaty-must-wait-after-UN-agreement-fails-3742363.php

[Wiggity]

According to Dick Morris the treaty would have to be renounced by the senate or POTUS. Harry Reid will not bring it to a vote in the senate, as he has done with many other bills, and it will, therefore, not be renounced and will become law.

please elaborate

[theGinsue]

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Arms-treaty-must-wait-after-UN-agreement-fails-3742363.php

Fantastic news - IF we can vote Oblunder out of office in November.

Very happy to hear that talks shouldn't resume until after the election.

[BPTactical]

Fantastic news - IF we can vote Oblunder out of office in November.

Very happy to hear that talks shouldn't resume until after the election.

Just a stay of execution.
Hillary is smart enough to realize the political fallout in an election year.
Stay vigilant.

[Singlestack]

"Stay thirsty, my friends"

[Richard K]

please elaborate

He made reference to a treaty/agreement the US entered into in Vienna. The crux of the issue, according to him, is that if it is never brought to a vote in the senate and is not renounced by the senate or the president, it becomes law until such time as it is renounced. Harry Reid will not even allow it to come up for a vote and we know Obama will not renounce it. If Obama is re-elected we will be stuck with the terms of the treaty for the next four years at a minimum.

[BPTactical]

If Obozo gets a second term we have a whole lot more to worry about than the useless UN and their bullshit.

[Big Wall]

The way I understand it is we asked for an extension until after the elections. WTF! Is he waiting to see if he gets elected again before signing this?

[Zundfolge]

The way I understand it is we asked for an extension until after the elections. WTF! Is he waiting to see if he gets elected again before signing this?
Yes, that is EXACTLY what he's doing.


Again, for the umpteenth time, if Obama gets re-elected America is over.

[theGinsue]

Yes, that is EXACTLY what he's doing.


Again, for the umpteenth time, if Obama gets re-elected America is over.

+1

At least some of us get it.

[SAnd]

I did some more checking on the Dick Morris explanation of how it could become law.

From the US Department of State website-
Is the United States a party to the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties?
No. The United States signed the treaty on April 24, 1970. The U.S. Senate has not given its advice and consent to the treaty. The United States considers many of the provisions of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties to constitute customary international law on the law of treaties.

http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/faqs/70139.htm
---
I also checked on the concept Morris expressed that an international treaty can over rule the US Constitution. I have found numerous website articles that flatly say that a treaty can't over-ride the Constitution and none that expain how it can.

My biggest worry is that obama has already demonstrated that he will disregard the law whenever he wants to. Any discussion of the Constitution or law is moot if he decides he is going to ignore it.

I apologize for posting that video before checking it out completely.

[Big Wall]

Yes, that is EXACTLY what he's doing.


Again, for the umpteenth time, if Obama gets re-elected America is over.


That's how I took it, and I agree completely.

[Castle410]

The U.S. stays outta the UN, The UN needs to stay out of the U.S.

[Whistler]

I think the "treaty can't override the Constitution" thing is a shell game to distract folks from the fact that it mandates legislation to meet the terms of the agreement. I don't see anything in there that would be determined to violate the 2nd Amendment however I do see International mandate for legislation and record keeping/sharing far beyond what currently exists. I also see an opportunity for incremental increases in regulation through the "amendment by consensus" agreement (Article 20). Just those two in combination are enough to stir my concern. Throughout history gun confiscation begins with registration and we all know how that ends.

The proposed treaty states in part:

Article 1
Goals and Objectives

- To prevent, combat and eradicate the illicit trade in conventional arms and their diversion to illegal and unauthorized end use;

In order to:

- Promote cooperation, transparency and responsibility of States Parties in the trade in conventional arms, thus building confidence among States Parties,

Article 2
- A. Covered Items

- h. Small Arms and Light Weapons

- 4. Each State Party shall establish or update, as appropriate, and maintain a national control list that shall include the items that fall within Paragraph 1 above, as defined on a national basis, based on relevant UN instruments at a minimum. Each State Party shall publish its control list to the extent permitted by national law.

Article 6
General Implementation

Each State Party shall take all appropriate legislative and administrative measures necessary to implement the provisions of this Treaty and designate competent national authorities in order to have an effective, transparent and predictable national control system regulating the transfer of conventional arms;

Article 8
Import

Importing State Parties shall take measures to ensure that appropriate and relevant information is provided, upon request, to the exporting State Party to assist the exporting State in its criteria assessment and to assist in verifying end users.

Article 20
Amendments

Any amendment to this Treaty shall be adopted by consensus, or if consensus is not achieved, by two-thirds of the States Parties present and voting at the Conference of States Parties. The Depositary shall communicate any amendment to all States Parties.
A proposed amendment adopted in accordance with Paragraph 3 of this Article shall enter into force for all States Parties to the Treaty that have accepted it, upon deposit with the Depositary. Thereafter, it shall enter into force for any remaining State Party on the date of deposit of its instrument of accession.