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View Full Version : Another libtard rebuttal on FB



josh7328
08-01-2012, 09:57
what the libtard said: I don't see it. This is America. Nobody will give up their guns and it will never be made illegal to own one. Sure, a lot of people want to see gun control, but to ban..... never. Like Obama said, heavy weaponary like AK-47's and all the military gear that the Aurora shooter had is just not necessary for ordinary citizens, they belong in the hands of the military. I'm just curious why an american citizen would need $200,000 worth of armory and amnunition? Self defense is always the answer to gun control issues. Okay, fine, but do you need 11,000 rounds of amunition to keep someone out of your back door? How about deer hunting? How much lead does that take? My common sense tells me that we should be able to choose what kind of gun/guns we keep in our homes and our hunting grounds but I also believe their should be some kind of "red flag" when someone like James Holmes purchases massive quanities of weapons. I for one, would be much more comfortable going out to places knowing that the next lunatic is not hiding around the corner for another massacre. Anyway, I don't get the paranoia. I'm for the "out of control" gun control, not the banning of them.


What I said: You are mistaken. The governments of both the UN and our own have been trying feverishly to ban anything gun-related that they can lately. But what is more important here is your skewed view, which I will attempt to correct through a bit of education.

First, we need to look at why our second amendment was written. First and foremost, it was written to give our PEOPLE (not soldiers) the ability to defend ourselves from a tyrannical government. This is absolutely its most important function. Second, it was written to establish our first standing army -the US citizen- to help defend against foreign invasion. Third, for self defense. Lastly, for sports and hunting. If you think that somebody could do any good defending against a tyrannical government or invading army with his Remington 700 .243 hunting rifle and a couple boxes of 85 grain hunting ammo, you are laughably mistaken. Government operatives wear body armor, utilize night vision optics, carry AR-15's and drive armored vehicles. Should the need ever arise for the people to reclaim power over a tyrannical government, we will need every bit of help we can get. If that is one more round in your magazine, or an inexpensive ballistic vest, then so be it. The odds must be evened as much as possible.
Let's look at an example of how our second amendment can work in the real world with regards to creating a strong citizenry that is able to ward off attack. In WWII, Japan said that America could never be successfully invaded because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass". I don't think that a massive, organized military such as Japan's and its allies would fear invading a country that was regulated and restricted to only owning 20 rounds of hunting ammo per person. "That was over 50 years ago!" You might say, so let's take a look at something a bit more modern. Switzerland has, and actually (unlike the US) utilizes, something very similar to our second amendment in its intended form. Their country's army is comprised of all of the country's able-bodied military age men. They are all ISSUED BY THE GOVERNMENT a fully automatic machine gun to keep in their home. Switzerland also enjoys the lowest gun crime in the world, and has never been invaded.
How about an example going the other way? I am currently in Afghanistan serving in the Army. Our forces are partially in charge of enforcing extremely stringent weapon control here. The Afghan people are basically not allowed to own any weapons. Yet somehow, we get rocketed, shot at with machine guns, mortared and bombed all the time. It is so common that most of us simply sleep through the explosions. Know what else is happening in Afghanistan? Afghan citizens are being tortured, killed, raped, robbed, kidnapped, and their homes set on fire at an astounding rate. They simply cannot defend themselves because of the gun control. One Afghan with a rifle could probably ward off Taliban insurgents trying to kidnap and rape his family, or at least even the odds.
Look at crime statistics from Australia since they confiscated private firearms.
Do you really want to allow the government to gain more and more and more power and control over the people? Do you really want agencies like TSA, ATF, DHS to outgun the country's citizens? Do you really think that the feds only have your best interest in mind? What happens when the government has removed all forms of citizen resistance? They will have free reign to do whatever the hell it is that they want. The government needs to fear its citizens. THAT is the only way to keep a country free. That is the number one reason for writing the second amendment.
There is a rider on the cybersecurity act that bans magazines over 10 rounds and makes anybody who owns one an instant felon with a 10 year prison sentence. The UN arms trade treaty bans "unauthorized weapons" and has a clause to allow for later review and revision WITHOUT a vote from our reps. Obama has verbally attacked online ammunition sales. He has also, as you said, condemned the use of "AK-47's". Tell me again about how much gun control ISN'T in the works?

Sharpienads
08-01-2012, 10:17
I like it. Unfortunately, a lot of what you just said will probably sound crazy or paranoid to a lot of people, even though it is perfectly logical and historically accurate. Like Wilkow says on his radio program, the old sanity is the new insanity and the old insanity is the new sanity.

A bit off topic, but in Asskrackistan I believe every household is allowed one rifle. At least that's how it used to be, might have changed.

Chad4000
08-01-2012, 10:22
I like it too!

josh7328
08-01-2012, 10:22
I like it. Unfortunately, a lot of what you just said will probably sound crazy or paranoid to a lot of people, even though it is perfectly logical and historically accurate. Like Wilkow says on his radio program, the old sanity is the new insanity and the old insanity is the new sanity.

A bit off topic, but in Asskrackistan I believe every household is allowed one rifle. At least that's how it used to be, might have changed.
I think you are right, actually. Oh well. Our terp told us that it was very difficult (read impossible) to get a rifle legally.

Sharpienads
08-01-2012, 10:30
I think you are right, actually. Oh well. Our terp told us that it was very difficult (read impossible) to get a rifle legally.

Either way the point is still valid. What if you had a large family? Wouldn't it be better to have a rifle in the hands of every family member as opposed to only having one rifle? Hell, even if it was just two people. Two people shooting back is better than just one.

josh7328
08-01-2012, 10:35
Either way the point is still valid. What if you had a large family? Wouldn't it be better to have a rifle in the hands of every family member as opposed to only having one rifle? Hell, even if it was just two people. Two people shooting back is better than just one.
For sure. And they do have BIG families here.

Ronin13
08-01-2012, 10:48
Well said Josh. The bad news- you can lead a horse to water, but you just can't make him drink. I hope maybe you educated someone a bit and helped our cause- well written and based on fact, not emotion (why are the liberals always doing that?), and you stated it in a very matter-of-fact fashion without resorting to attacks. [Beer]
I would have added that it wouldn't make a lick of difference if there are 10round mags or 100 round, one is still capable of killing regardless of how much ammo they can have in the gun at a given time.

josh7328
08-01-2012, 10:50
Well said Josh. The bad news- you can lead a horse to water, but you just can't make him drink. I hope maybe you educated someone a bit and helped our cause- well written and based on fact, not emotion (why are the liberals always doing that?), and you stated it in a very matter-of-fact fashion without resorting to attacks. [Beer]
I would have added that it wouldn't make a lick of difference if there are 10round mags or 100 round, one is still capable of killing regardless of how much ammo they can have in the gun at a given time.
Meh. I was more trying to explain why we have the 2A so that the more specific arguments, such as the 10 round mags ETC., would fall into place in the mold of 2A understanding.

buffalobo
08-01-2012, 11:25
Very good reply Josh.

Always respond with education and hope for enlightenment.

One uinformed citizen at a time.

Try to keep discussion going, the longer they are exposed to truth, the more likely they are to lose emotion based fear.

josh7328
08-01-2012, 12:25
you know what.... In retrospect, I wonder how many government agencies think I am a terrorist after posting that on FB... [Beer][BooHoo]

DD977GM2
08-01-2012, 13:30
I like it but the attention span of most liberals was lost after about the 5th world you typed [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

josh7328
08-01-2012, 14:11
HAHA!!! I WON! The debate continued long after that and the libtard just began the personal attacks!!! SWEET VICTORY! [ROFL3][ROFL2][ROFL1]


EDIT: Oh and the "statistics don't matter" to her. She "only knows what she has read in the newspaper" for the past 30 or 40 years... I had to explain what statistics meant and about media sensationalism, and that it was odd that in the last 30 or 40 years we had an AWB that did nothing... OOOOOOoooohhhhh Goodness. Do you really have to spoonfeed these people EVERYTHING?!

Sharpienads
08-01-2012, 15:56
you know what.... In retrospect, I wonder how many government agencies think I am a terrorist after posting that on FB... [Beer][BooHoo]

Yeah, there are at least a dozen words in your post that DHS monitors to seek out suspected homegrown terrorists. If you love the constitution and/or are a veteran, you're probably screwed. Been nice knowing ya .

SuperiorDG
08-01-2012, 16:18
I just had to address a few of her comments.

I'm just curious why an american citizen would need $200,000 worth of armory and amnunition?



Really, who owns $200,000 worth of armory and ammunition? Is she implying that this is the average gun owner or something? Where did she get this from?


Self defense is always the answer to gun control issues. Okay, fine, but do you need 11,000 rounds of amunition to keep someone out of your back door?



No you may not need this many rounds for that one chance in a million when someone brakes in your back door. But to be safe and proficient enough to protect yourself you may need to shoot this many rounds in practice.

How about deer hunting? How much lead does that take?



It’s not about hunting.

My common sense tells me that we should be able to choose what kind of gun/guns we keep in our homes and our hunting grounds but I also believe their should be some kind of "red flag" when someone like James Holmes purchases massive quanities of weapons.



What kind of “common sense” tells her that buying a lot of ammo and guns is an indicator of craziness? How does a policy like this get you any closer to stopping someone like that guy?


Some people live in such a disconnected reality.

josh7328
08-01-2012, 16:23
Some people live in such a disconnected reality.
Well when presented with statistics she basically told be the statistics didnt matter because of all of the news articles she has read about the misuse of guns. I linked her to The Armed Citizen page and said "since actual statistics don't matter you you, but news articles do, here is an entire compilation of news articles for you."

Yup. Reality is a bitch.

I can't figure out how to do a screen shot. Somebody fill me in on that and I'll post up a pic of the entire thing. It's pretty good.

Rucker61
08-01-2012, 16:35
I can't figure out how to do a screen shot. Somebody fill me in on that and I'll post up a pic of the entire thing. It's pretty good.

Windows 7 has an application called "Snipping Tool" that will let you capture any portion of your screen.

josh7328
08-01-2012, 17:09
I attached the three screenshots. They pickup where I left off in the OP. Flame me. I'm always looking for pointers on debate for future reference.

cofi
08-01-2012, 17:16
2191 times a day citizens are lawfully defending themselves with a firearm???

josh7328
08-01-2012, 17:18
2191 times a day citizens are lawfully defending themselves with a firearm???
I actually got all those numbers from some quick searches. Most of them are from NAGR and such. From those little picture things that they put up on FB and such. Maybe they're not totally reliable... but oh well hahaha

Rucker61
08-01-2012, 17:22
I attached the three screenshots. They pickup where I left off in the OP. Flame me. I'm always looking for pointers on debate for future reference.

Couple of points. The government agencies are staffed by real people, many of whom won't obey orders to kill US citizens to take their guns.

Two, even if the government agencies outgun civilians one-on-one, how many "thugs" are there and how many civilian gun owners are there? I think the adage "quantity has a quality all of its own" could come into play there.

"I don't need statistics". You can't win or even hold a rational conversation with someone that holds to that belief.

TEAMRICO
08-01-2012, 17:22
you know what.... In retrospect, I wonder how many government agencies think I am a terrorist after posting that on FB... [Beer][BooHoo]

At least four that I reported you to. I included the Provost Marshall and Sherriff Maketa!!!!
I posted your pic on every gunshop in the Springs so good luck getting any goodies when you get home![Tooth]

josh7328
08-01-2012, 17:28
At least four that I reported you to. I included the Provost Marshall and Sherriff Maketa!!!!
I posted your pic on every gunshop in the Springs so good luck getting any goodies when you get home![Tooth]
Awesome.... lol luckily, that's one of those pictures of me that somehow looks nothing like me, so That's cool. haha