View Full Version : LMT,BCM,COLT,DANIEL D, NOVESKI?
I'm sure this has been discussed, and I'm not sure if i posted in the right place. Which company would you choose? I know noveski is probably the most $ but I'm talking base model for every company.
beast556
08-06-2012, 01:20
BCM or Colt. I would go BCM personaly over Colt.
Mick-Boy
08-06-2012, 01:45
A big +1 for BCM.
Mr. Bufoni has shown himself to be a man of integrity and he stands behind his product 100%. I buy with confidence.
TheBelly
08-06-2012, 02:23
you really can't go wrong with any of these brands.
for the most cost effective, get a BCM blem lower and then an upper of your choosing. You can easily keep it around $900-$1k.
What is the decision point for you? Cost, features, intended purpose...
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 06:53
I agree with Belly you can't go wrong with any of those mentioned
with that said it's up to you from there
I'll throw in a vote for BCM too. Based mostly upon providing a quality product at a reasonable price with exceptional customer service.
LMT or Daniel Defense would be my second place vote.
I swore off Colt years ago when they changed the size of their pins.
Noveske makes a good product from what I hear but I have no experience to judge them and they seem a bit overpriced to me.
[Beer]
Cylinder Head
08-06-2012, 07:52
You forgot KAC![UZI]
This. Eugene Stoner himself helped design the bolt for the KAC guns. It lasts many times what a standard bolt will last. Not to mention the guns are top quality.
soldier-of-the-apocalypse
08-06-2012, 08:08
+ 1 for bcm they havent failed me yet
Mick-Boy
08-06-2012, 08:19
This. Eugene Stoner himself helped design the bolt for the KAC guns. It lasts many times what a standard bolt will last. Not to mention the guns are top quality.
They also cost twice what a stock 6920 or basic BCM carbine does. But hey, it's your money.
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 08:23
same with Noveske, but it's up to the buyer in the end ............
...........they all do the same and are your higher end stuff .......
Cylinder Head
08-06-2012, 08:37
They also cost twice what a stock 6920 or basic BCM carbine does. But hey, it's your money.
That comes with a full length rail, match trigger, Ambi lower, one of the best stocks in the world, proprietary length gas system that even further mitigates recoil, excellent out of the box accuracy and a bolt that will last 3 to 4 times what a standard bolt will. Oh and did I mention how light the gun is? Under 7lbs.
Money well spent.
That comes with a full length rail, match trigger, Ambi lower, one of the best stocks in the world, proprietary length gas system that even further mitigates recoil, excellent out of the box accuracy and a bolt that will last 3 to 4 times what a standard bolt will. Oh and did I mention how light the gun is? Under 7lbs.
Money well spent.
Kac is the biggest ripoff in the ar community. Because they are military contracted they get a lot of fan boys but there isn't anything that makes them close to worth what they ask. All of the things that you listed above, which are highly debatable by the way, could to made to be the same on a regular rifle for around $300. But hey as long as people buy what they are confident in its up to them.
LaRue. That is all you need. When other peoples products breaks, LaRue replaces them with his own. It happens all the time. You will not find better customer service anywhere.
If money weren't an issue I would go with Noveske, otherwise I'll throw in another vote for BCM.
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 09:08
If money weren't an issue I would go with Noveske, otherwise I'll throw in another vote for BCM.
this ^^^^
Bailey Guns
08-06-2012, 09:31
I'll admit it. I'm a Colt fan. Yeah, they were a PITA a few times in the past with the different pin sizes, receiver blocks and cold-shouldering the civilian market. That's pretty much ancient history now, though.
But their guns are top notch for a production gun. S&W M&P rifles aren't too shabby, either.
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 09:40
I'll admit it. I'm a Colt fan. Yeah, they were a PITA a few times in the past with the different pin sizes, receiver blocks and cold-shouldering the civilian market. That's pretty much ancient history now, though.
But their guns are top notch for a production gun. S&W M&P rifles aren't too shabby, either.
Bailey, what do you think of the anodized FDE Colts?
I'm interested in picking one up but not sure how the anodized would hold up ........ [Beer]
LaRue. That is all you need. When other peoples products breaks, LaRue replaces them with his own. It happens all the time. You will not find better customer service anywhere.
Larue is nice
Kac is the biggest ripoff in the ar community. Because they are military contracted they get a lot of fan boys but there isn't anything that makes them close to worth what they ask. All of the things that you listed above, which are highly debatable by the way, could to made to be the same on a regular rifle for around $300. But hey as long as people buy what they are confident in its up to them.
So much for this not being a pissing match. I've owned a few, shot even more and I'll throw my Knights out of the box against almost anything out there. It's one of the softest shooting rifles I've fired ( And I'm not a fanboy.....actually a lot of people seem to hate on KAC....not sure why?). Noveske's seem to be in the same price point....maybe a little higher. I think it's pretty cool that everybody has a favorite....gives me a chance to shoot different rifles.
Cylinder Head
08-06-2012, 11:18
Kac is the biggest ripoff in the ar community. Because they are military contracted they get a lot of fan boys but there isn't anything that makes them close to worth what they ask. All of the things that you listed above, which are highly debatable by the way, could to made to be the same on a regular rifle for around $300. But hey as long as people buy what they are confident in its up to them.
An LMT sopmod alone retails for $200.
Geissele SSA: $189
DD Omega Rail: $250
That's $639 worth of parts and we haven't even gotten into the bolt, gas system. Ambi lowers tend to be double the price of standard ones.
I purposely didn't use KAC "ripoff" parts in my cost analysis as you seem to be very vitriolic about them.
I'm confident as mine hasn't jammed in 6k rounds incuding 3 courses.
Bailey Guns
08-06-2012, 12:11
Bailey, what do you think of the anodized FDE Colts?
I'm interested in picking one up but not sure how the anodized would hold up ........ [Beer]
To be honest, I don't have any first-hand experience. Best I can tell you is I did get to fondle one and it looked really nice. Anodizing should hold up as well, if not better, than most other finishes, though.
All of mine are plain black and range from an early 70s gun to a the later stuff (a lightweight rifle) and a brand new M4 Carbine.
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 12:40
To be honest, I don't have any first-hand experience. Best I can tell you is I did get to fondle one and it looked really nice. Anodizing should hold up as well, if not better, than most other finishes, though.
All of mine are plain black and range from an early 70s gun to a the later stuff (a lightweight rifle) and a brand new M4 Carbine.
Not saying any of the mentioned brands are better than another but I'd like to own one of each...do I need that many, no, but it's the American way! hahaha[Beer]
I'm really leaning towards that colt fde damn I don't make enough [Rant1]
[Tooth]
Bailey Guns
08-06-2012, 12:45
Hell...I need very few, if any, of the guns I have. Sometimes it's just not about "need".
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 13:04
Very true, it's about want, I want more. i'm a greedy bastard
SuperiorDG
08-06-2012, 13:08
Guns for me are like food. There are certain dishes I like more then others, but I would ratter not eat them every day of the week.
Not vitriolic at all. Simply staying my opinion. Those parts you listed are also way overpriced. You aren't getting anything more than you could get with less expensive options. For te most part you are paying for the brand name. I'm not saying go out an buy china knock offs, you can buy very reputable rands that give you the same "tactical advantage" and pay much less. It's a 223. Paying a bunch of money to have slightly less recoil or a softer recoil seems like a waste to me. Why spend a bunch more money for slightly less recoil on a .22? It's about along the same lines. A 223 has such little recoil the advantage you get by spending that kind of money is negligible. Also whether or not it shoots softer is a subjective thing. I've shot a few and the rifle and recoil felt no different. I'd rather have two good rifles than one slightly better rifle for a huge amount of more money.
Also Eugene stoner had a hand in developing all of the ar bolts, not just knights. Steel is steel. If you treat it well it will last about the same. Arguing how a kac rifle is worth the extra cost is like arguing their inconel muzzle device is worth the cost. If you have unlimited resource sure, why not? But the money is much better spent buying a reputable rifle and upgrading the parts you NEED yourself.
An LMT sopmod alone retails for $200.
Geissele SSA: $189
DD Omega Rail: $250
That's $639 worth of parts and we haven't even gotten into the bolt, gas system. Ambi lowers tend to be double the price of standard ones.
I purposely didn't use KAC "ripoff" parts in my cost analysis as you seem to be very vitriolic about them.
I'm confident as mine hasn't jammed in 6k rounds incuding 3 courses.
Cylinder Head
08-06-2012, 15:33
Three things I don't go "cheap" on:
Guns
Suits
Cars
yankeefan98121
08-06-2012, 15:34
Three things I don't go "cheap" on:
Guns
Suits
Cars
I sure do like picking me up some cheap whores though!! [Tooth]
[Driver][PoPo]
Cylinder Head
08-06-2012, 17:36
I sure do like picking me up some cheap whores though!! [Tooth]
[Driver][PoPo]
That's what Shotgun Willie's is for.
Not vitriolic at all. Simply staying my opinion. Those parts you listed are also way overpriced. You aren't getting anything more than you could get with less expensive options. For te most part you are paying for the brand name. I'm not saying go out an buy china knock offs, you can buy very reputable rands that give you the same "tactical advantage" and pay much less. It's a 223. Paying a bunch of money to have slightly less recoil or a softer recoil seems like a waste to me. Why spend a bunch more money for slightly less recoil on a .22? It's about along the same lines. A 223 has such little recoil the advantage you get by spending that kind of money is negligible. Also whether or not it shoots softer is a subjective thing. I've shot a few and the rifle and recoil felt no different. I'd rather have two good rifles than one slightly better rifle for a huge amount of more money.
Also Eugene stoner had a hand in developing all of the ar bolts, not just knights. Steel is steel. If you treat it well it will last about the same. Arguing how a kac rifle is worth the extra cost is like arguing their inconel muzzle device is worth the cost. If you have unlimited resource sure, why not? But the money is much better spent buying a reputable rifle and upgrading the parts you NEED yourself.
I agreed with everything you said until that last part about steel. It's a silly statement to claim that steel is steel. What if i said painkillers are just painkillers... or antibiotics are just antibiotics... You'd know that was wrong. And "treating a bolt well" has nothing to do with the material from which it's made. Lubing a bolt doesn't have any impact on the metallurgy and I doubt many people here are going to heat their bolts to red hot on full auto.
Another vote for BCM and LaRue. I've had a few of each and they ran like tops. For the price, I would go BCM. Just my opinion.
Shouldn't this thread have a poll at the beginning? [Awesom]
Bailey Guns
08-06-2012, 21:10
I gotchur pole right here...
http://www.idiomsbykids.com/taylor/mrtaylor/class20022003/idioms/idioms2003/idioms4/Take%20a%20poll.jpg
I've yet to put a different upper on my Colt, but I will be pissed if I can't just pop any old upper on there. Your killing me smalls....now I need to go look.
Wheew....still like my colt...kinda like the fixed stock on the carbine as well.
theGinsue
08-07-2012, 17:43
Shouldn't this thread have a poll at the beginning? [Awesom]
...and there was light, er, a poll.
So it has been said, so it has been done.
Can I get an Amen?
For the record regarding my vote, I have no personal experience with LaRue products & can't afford one, but I've heard great things about 'em & really want one. Not really into the M&P's myself & had a Colt before the boating accident but all of the other choices are top notch too, just want a LaRue.
Sharpienads
08-07-2012, 17:45
Amen!!!
I'm a little late to the party, but POF, Hk, or Seekins.
It is when you make it the same and for the same purpose which is the case here. Also by treating it well I mean using fairly non corrosive ammo and cleaning it regularly? Will it make a huge difference? No but that's kind of my point the idea of a bolt lasting 4 times longer is pretty ridiculous.
I agreed with everything you said until that last part about steel. It's a silly statement to claim that steel is steel. What if i said painkillers are just painkillers... or antibiotics are just antibiotics... You'd know that was wrong. And "treating a bolt well" has nothing to do with the material from which it's made. Lubing a bolt doesn't have any impact on the metallurgy and I doubt many people here are going to heat their bolts to red hot on full auto.
......Steel is steel. If you treat it well it will last about the same.....
Someone else already brought this up, but your saying, is well, bad. You could go low carbon vs high carbon, or forged vs machined. You could compare heat treated, to non heat treated, or steels with metal treatments such as nitrocarburizing, to non treated steels. Saying steel, is steel though is not correct. Different companies do different things. Most do the same thing, but some go the extra length with barrels, extra machining, or treatments. Your basic AR from Bushmaster ect. will not hold up to the same beating or tests as some of your higher end rifles, they're just not built the same. You get what you pay for, that saying still holds true. For what most of us do though, the basic Bushy will work just fine, it all depends on what you want to spend your money on.
I would recommend the Knight. If you can only have one, thats the one to have. Its the best balanced rifle I have ever run.
Singlestack
08-07-2012, 21:49
I own BCM, but voted Colt. For a Basic rifle, I think of the stock 6920 as the epitome of that type.
Singlestack
SuperiorDG
08-08-2012, 06:55
Voted BCM here.
Birddog1911
08-08-2012, 08:58
Another BCM vote here. I'd love a KAC, but I doubt that I'll ever pay that much.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.