View Full Version : Thornton drops case against James Mapes
Looks like Thornton dismissed the case against James Mapes (Cinebarre open carry dude), Adams County looking into state level charges.
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/449dc925e68c4be89bf899a7b27ccd35/CO--Colorado-Shooting-Theater-Arrest
Great-Kazoo
08-10-2012, 15:34
Looks like Thornton dismissed the case against James Mapes (Cinebarre open carry dude), Adams County looking into state level charges.
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/449dc925e68c4be89bf899a7b27ccd35/CO--Colorado-Shooting-Theater-Arrest
Public Opinion always trumps the law. Expect him to be charged with creating a disturbance. Creating a panic in a public area, or any number of charges to show "The state is tough on crime".
Meanwhile 56 more sex offenders, 28 more violent felons and 1 casual user of marijuana were released from prison today due to over crowding.
Byte Stryke
08-10-2012, 15:34
please do not link stuff from the state of dumb.
Credit given for it not being from Illinois.
Thank you
:D
As they should have but now they want to pursue state level charges? Somebody just wants to try and make the wrong point here. Let's make an example out of the good guy? [Rant1]
I hope he sues and retires.
hghclsswhitetrsh
08-10-2012, 16:37
I hope he sues and retires.
Yeah right. Hell no, want your tags to go up even more?
Yeah right. Hell no, want your tags to go up even more?
We are both already paying for this. Our taxes are being used to go after him for exercising his rights. I would rather see him settle for a nice amount for his problems and hopefully put a little reminder in the back of all the DA's and lawyers etc and let them know constitutional rights should stand and not be f'd with.
buckshotbarlow
08-10-2012, 16:56
state = kalifornians, colorado has finally been overran by dumba$$es.
Lets try someone for obeying the law! That'll show em
I JUST sat on an Adams county jury. Case went to mistrial because I wouldn't back down and hung the jury. Just because the State presses charges, doesn't mean he won't get off. Not all jurors are stupid, just 9 of them in my case.
I JUST sat on an Adams county jury. Case went to mistrial because I wouldn't back down and hung the jury. Just because the State presses charges, doesn't mean he won't get off. Not all jurors are stupid, just 9 of them in my case.
Can you discuss the charges? Was there any evidence that could have been produced that would have made the difference for you?
I JUST sat on an Adams county jury. Case went to mistrial because I wouldn't back down and hung the jury. Just because the State presses charges, doesn't mean he won't get off. Not all jurors are stupid, just 9 of them in my case.
I go next Thursday! Can't wait...
RCCrawler
08-10-2012, 18:25
I JUST sat on an Adams county jury. Case went to mistrial because I wouldn't back down and hung the jury. Just because the State presses charges, doesn't mean he won't get off. Not all jurors are stupid, just 9 of them in my case.
Reminds me of this video.
The part relevant to this discussion begins at 1:30, but the whole thing is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp-5rvtSpak
10mm-man
08-10-2012, 18:58
Reminds me of this video.
The part relevant to this discussion begins at 1:30, but the whole thing is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp-5rvtSpak
[ROFL1][ROFL2] Love it; NOT GUILTY!
Hitman 6
08-10-2012, 19:15
Public Opinion always trumps the law. Expect him to be charges with creating a disturbance. Creating a panic in a public area, or any number of charges to show "The state is tough on crime".
Meanwhile 56 more sex offenders, 28 more violent felons and 1 casual user of marijuana were released from prison today due to over crowding.
Ka-boom! +1 [Beer]
Okay....
Since I am a resident of Thornton, we just need to worry about civil damage ($$$) to this guy. :(
Sometimes panicking dumb@ss witnesses make something out of nothing.
buffalobo
08-10-2012, 23:58
State level charges are even more ridiculous than Thornton arresting him in the first place.
[Mad] [Bang] [Mad]
Bailey Guns
08-11-2012, 08:23
Lets try someone for obeying the law! That'll show em
Exactly.
I had to sit on a jury for 6 days. The entire case was circumstantial BS and after several hours of deliberating; by deliberating I mean me and one other person had to convince everyone else this guy should not be found guilty, we ultimately found the guy not guilty.
The guy being tried sat in jail for almost a year and was facing 80 years in prison after being accused of starting a small fire in his apartment that resulted in a 12"X24" section of carpet being burnt.
What was amazing to me was the majority of the jury members wanted to convict this guy because they "thought" he was guilty based on the evidence presented. When finally asked if they knew he was guilty the same as the knew the sky was blue they all said no, they thought he was guilty but they did not know it so they all ultimately agreed he should be found not guilty.
It's amazing what a prosecutor will do when they really have a hard on for someone. I am sure there is some liberal D Bag in the CO state attorney's office looking for any possible thing they can use to stack charges on James Mapes in order to show how tough CO's justice system is on gun crimes, even when no crime has actually been committed.
Can you discuss the charges? Was there any evidence that could have been produced that would have made the difference for you?
Yeah, a video of someone else stabbing the victim would have changed my mind on pressing charges. I spoke with the EDIT Prosecutor EDIT on the way out and let him know what he needed to do better next time. If you are employed with Adams County and think you know which case I am talking about, I'd be glad to discuss it with you as well.
Yeah, a video of someone else stabbing the victim would have changed my mind on pressing charges. I spoke with the DA on the way out and let him know what he needed to do better next time. If you are employed with Adams County and think you know which case I am talking about, I'd be glad to discuss it with you as well.
I don't work for Adams County, although I am an Adams County resident.
I don't often get into court very much any more given the types of cases I am currently assigned. It is more of a professional curiosity regarding what citizens want as a standard of proof. Some jurors I've dealt with have had some strange notions of the standard of proof for a given crime. Often, a good defense attorney can make even the simplest of crimes and the evidence look like a total goat rope. Then again, there are times when the only evidence you are allowed to put before a jury just isn't enough to meet the minimum standards for the given jurisdiction. In cases like the latter, good prosecutors will move to dismiss for lack of evidence.
Dropping cases is a tough thing for prosecutors. It is hard on victims and their families, the community, and pisses off cops and investigators who often work very hard developing cases. A loss at trial means regardless of how guilty the defendant might be, they will never be tried again in that jurisdiction for that crime, even if two days after the acquittal, new evidence comes in showing the defendant in the act of committing the crime. Better to drop the charges before trial than lose during trial.
I don't know anything about the case you sat on. Thank you for sitting on the jury. It is the responsibility of all citizens to sit in judgment on anyone accused of a crime in this country. Sadly, I don't think I will ever be allowed to sit on any jury anywhere. I've gone when called, but always get dismissed.
Be safe.
The charge was First Degree Assault with a Deadly Weapon by the way. We had no idea how serious the sentence was going to be, and once the judge told us it was mandatory 10-32 years in prison MANDATORY, I think a lot of people were REALLY glad that they didn't end up convicting him. However, after the mis-trial, we were allowed to speak with the DA and Prosecutor. I spoke to the prosecutor, and the first thing out of his mouth was that the reason the trial was being held four years after the crime was because the kid ran and they found him 3 years later in Texas.
The charge was First Degree Assault with a Deadly Weapon by the way. We had no idea how serious the sentence was going to be, and once the judge told us it was mandatory 10-32 years in prison MANDATORY, I think a lot of people were REALLY glad that they didn't end up convicting him. However, after the mis-trial, we were allowed to speak with the DA and Prosecutor. I spoke to the prosecutor, and the first thing out of his mouth was that the reason the trial was being held four years after the crime was because the kid ran and they found him 3 years later in Texas.
I take it the victim was not convincing? No other witnesses? There probably wasn't much in the way of physical evidence and most of the evidence placing the defendant at the scene was circumstantial. It would be a tough enough case to prove within six months of the crime occurring, but four years later?
It was a high school graduation party where every one was drinking. Several witnesses saw the suspect "hit" the victim, in exactly the same spot that he was stabbed, then shortly there after, the victim fell to the ground and pointed at the suspect and said, "He hit me!", then the suspect ran into a bedroom, jumped out of a window and got away.
The issues were that:
-No one saw the knife in the suspect's hand when he "hit" the victim.
-The knife was never recovered.
-A timeline was never even suggested, let alone established, by the prosecutor.
-The ER surgeon got onto the stand and testified about the wound, and most of the jurors got the wrong impression that the doctor plainly stated that the knife would have to have been at least seven inches long to pierce the kidney.
-The knife was described as 3-5 inches long and serrated.
-Most people don't understand that MOST "serrated" blades are only partially serrated, so the cutting edge is still smooth.
-People thought that a "serrated" blade would make some horrible chain saw wound instead of the clean cut that was made.
My strongest argument was this:
ME: "So let me get this straight, people saw the suspect "hit" the victim in the exact same spot that he was stabbed, then the victim fell on the floor and pointed at the suspect, just before the suspect fled the scene. However, since no one actually saw the blade, it couldn't have been the suspect; because you find it unlikely that he could have been stabbed without someone noticing the blade?"
EVERYONE ELSE: "Yes! Now you get it!"
ME: "So instead, someone else, with a SEVEN INCH KNIFE, stabbed the victim in the kidney, pocketed the knife, stood there calmly so as not to arouse suspicion, then left the scene while everyone else was distracted by the suspect hitting the victim and fleeing the scene....and no one saw ANY of THAT interaciton?!"
EVERYONE ELSE: "Yes, that's how it had to have happened."
ME: "I understand that you have doubts, but I do not see any of them as reasonable. At this point, no one in the room has mentioned a single thing to get me even close to reconsidering my position."
It was ridiculous. People sat there and complained that all the witnesses had four years to collaborate a story, even though every single witness testimony was different. At one point, one lady even suggested that it was a pre-planned hit on the victim, and the reason the suspect was able to get away was because a get away car was waiting outside.
It was a high school graduation party where every one was drinking. Several witnesses saw the suspect "hit" the victim, in exactly the same spot that he was stabbed, then shortly there after, the victim fell to the ground and pointed at the suspect and said, "He hit me!", then the suspect ran into a bedroom, jumped out of a window and got away.
...
After the victim was hit, was he bleeding? Were the police called right away? Was the victim treated on the scene or taken to the hospital?
Did the defense even put on much of a case? Did they suggest any other suspects or give any other possible explanation for the wound?
The victim initially thought that he was punched and had a broken rib. Apparently, someone picked him up off the floor and he made it to a couch. At that point, he reached around to feel his rib and found that he could fit three of his fingers inside the wound. There were police photos of blood on the floor in the room where the altercation happened, and a lot of blood on the curtains in the same room. Victim was carried to a car and driven to North Suburban, then air lifted to Sweedish Medical Center. If I remember correctly, he lost about a pint of blood.
I made sure to ask if there was blood found in any other areas of the house, thinking that if the stabber cut his hand while stabbing, he might have left some on the window sill he crawled out of. No blood in any other part of the house. Another thing that threw the jury off was that there was no blood on the couch and he claimed to have sat there. I offered that I was relatively certain I could pee my pants while sitting on a couch, and still get up off the couch while leaving minimal to zero urine on the couch.
Police arrived after victim had already been driven to hospital.
The defense was pathetic. They feebly tried to suggest that since there was a pile of trash in the room when officers arrived, that had broken beer bottle glass in it, that perhaps it was a broken beer bottle that pierced the victim's kidney. The DA's closing statement looked like a late night infomercial because the DA was yelling about how no one would have the mind to open a seven inch blade with two hands (it was pointed out that no one testified to have seen a thumb stud to assist opening), stabbing a guy, then closing the huge blade with two hands, pocketing it, and running. No other suspects were mentioned or suggested. Very little defense was suggested.
The victim initially thought that he was punched and had a broken rib. Apparently, someone picked him up off the floor and he made it to a couch. At that point, he reached around to feel his rib and found that he could fit three of his fingers inside the wound. There were police photos of blood on the floor in the room where the altercation happened, and a lot of blood on the curtains in the same room. Victim was carried to a car and driven to North Suburban, then air lifted to Sweedish Medical Center. If I remember correctly, he lost about a pint of blood.
I take it the defendant did not testify. Did anyone ever explain why the defendant hit the victim? What were they fighting about or what was the defendant's motive for stabbing the victim?
Juries rarely get to hear about previous criminal histories of anyone involved. I know the group was young, mostly under 20 y.o., but did anything ever get mentioned about previous criminal conduct by either the defendant or victim?
Going to a jury is often like a trip to Vegas; entertaining in a sad and ironic way, and the only people winning are the house (court, cops, and lawyers). I appreciate your sharing. Like I said, I have a professional curiosity. I like to think that when I retire, get old, and bored, I will just hang out at the local court house and watch trials. Much more drama than stuff on TV.
No history was revealed, and I wanted to ask. After the mis-trial the prosecutor revealed that he didn't have anything significant before then. There was some conflicting testimony for the reason of the initial conflict. Basically, it was a graduation party, where at some point, there were way too many people at the house, and people that the hosts didn't know started showing up. The incident took place during a large brawl that involved most of the people in the front living room. Witnesses kept throwing around the numbers of 20-30 people pushing and shoving back and forth at once, but any more than 2 people fighting at once always ends up being told as 50-100 people brawling at once by the end of the night.
Earlier this year, my wife and I actually sat through most of the last day of trial for the guy that killed his employee over on 84th and Washington a few years ago. That was really entertaining.
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