View Full Version : Law Confirmed my justification
Birddog1911
08-11-2012, 21:53
A few months ago, I wound up pulling my handgun, while in my vehicle, against a hotheaded GI. He siad that he was gonna call the cops, when he realized he wasn't going to be able to beat my ass. I spent an hour of quality time with the local constabulatlory, knowing that I was justified (I was in a full cast on crutches; couldn't possibly defend myself). An hour later, I had my pistol and all of my spare magazines.
Just found out earlier tonight that the asshat GI is being charged with reckless endangerment. When the shithead gave his original statement, he gave no less than 4 different lies. According to the cops, he's lucky their not charging him with giving false statements as well.
Just feels good that the law has fully sided with the truth of what happened that day.
By the way; his charging a vehicle, in which I was sitting and armed, is the same as trespassing (essentially; I'm no attorney). Like most free states, the vehicle is an extension of your domicile. There is no law that prevents open or concealed carry within a vehicle in Colorado.
By the way; I wasn't completely innocent in the initial confrontation. I gave the guy the bird; but that in no way gives him the right to commit asault against someone; or in this case attempted assault. Lesson learned; don't give someone the bird, even though that fucking pussy should be able to take it. It doesn't mean that they will.
airborneranger
08-11-2012, 22:00
Lesson learned; don't give someone the bird, even though that fucking pussy should be able to take it. It doesn't mean that they will.
I try to follow that rule. You never know what kind of day, year or life someone has had.
Glad it worked out for you.
islandermyk
08-11-2012, 22:01
right on... good to hear it all went in your favor [Beer]
HA... who'd a thought flipping the bird was all that offensive anymore these days... I get it all the time at work [Coffee]
Birddog1911
08-11-2012, 22:02
I'm not going to pretend that I was 100% innocent in the situation; but a man ought to be able to shrug off being given the bird. If I went off on every asshole that shot me the bird, CS would have a much smaller population.
I tried as quickly as possible to deesculate the situation; but I wasn't gonna let the fucker kill me, or potentially kill me, and do nothing.
islandermyk
08-11-2012, 22:07
I don't know wtf was he thinking he was gonna achieve pickin a fight with a guy on crutches....
people need a spanking from time to time.. I guess... and he got spanked [Coffee]
... you won... that's all that matters [Beer]
The finger and words are just that. Does not ever mean anyone has the right to physically attack another for flippin them off or callin them names. Unfortunately everyone feels they have the right to attack another for doing so. I don't think it's not that you're not innocent, if you want to flip him the bird or tell him piss off for whatever and the same goes for him but when it became physical as road rage incidents sometimes seem to I think you did what you had to do and I'm glad things went your way.
bigshane
08-11-2012, 22:14
Congrats!
Goodburbon
08-11-2012, 22:34
Yep I got flipped off today, didn't occur to me to shoot the guy. It only raised my alert level as to how to properly defend if the guy went all grape Ape on me at the next light.
He was the one who cut ME off too. Some people's children.
Teufelhund
08-11-2012, 23:06
The instructor in my CCW class told us something along the lines of, "If you flip someone off and cause them to attack you, then you shoot them in self-defense you can be held liable in Colorado because you instigated it." I don't know if that's true or not, but I know I am much better behaved when armed and I keep my fingers to myself. Better to let it slide and not have to shoot someone.
The circumstances of you "giving him the bird" will govern this case. In all reality you being a dick could make you the aggressor if they can prove you caused an action and acted in a unacceptable way.
The circumstances of you "giving him the bird" will govern this case. In all reality you being a dick could make you the aggressor if they can prove you caused an action and acted in a unacceptable way.
Giving the bird is not a free pass to assault someone else, no matter how you slice it.
10mm-man
08-11-2012, 23:49
I regards to you being the aggressor by giving the bird. I am not sure that is the case, because he started it right? Anyway......
I believe the law says if you were the instigator but then backed down and he continued then the roles change and you are no longer the aggressor...
**** I am not an attorney and this in no way should be taken as such!""""
Colorado Luckydog
08-11-2012, 23:57
Giving the bird is not a free pass to assault someone else, no matter how you slice it.
I'd still be carefull what I posted on an open forum.
I'd still be carefull what I posted on an open forum.
Agreed.
GilpinGuy
08-12-2012, 00:50
Giving the bird is not a free pass to assault someone else, no matter how you slice it.
Exactly. "The Finger" isn't "fighting WORDS".
"The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_constitutional_law), is a limitation to freedom of speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech) as protected by the First Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) to the United States Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution).
In 1942, the U.S. Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) established the doctrine by a 9-0 decision in Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplinsky_v._New_Hampshire). It held that "insulting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insult) or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_the_peace)" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] ... have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."
Read more HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States)
Congrats "Bird"dog...heh. Seriously though, coulda turned out to be a real shit ordeal but sounds like you made out okay.
(I was in a full cast on crutches; couldn't possibly defend myself)
What did you do this time?
A few months ago, I wound up pulling my handgun, while in my vehicle, against a hotheaded GI. He siad that he was gonna call the cops, when he realized he wasn't going to be able to beat my ass. I spent an hour of quality time with the local constabulatlory, knowing that I was justified (I was in a full cast on crutches; couldn't possibly defend myself). An hour later, I had my pistol and all of my spare magazines.
Just found out earlier tonight that the asshat GI is being charged with reckless endangerment. When the shithead gave his original statement, he gave no less than 4 different lies. According to the cops, he's lucky their not charging him with giving false statements as well.
Just feels good that the law has fully sided with the truth of what happened that day.
By the way; his charging a vehicle, in which I was sitting and armed, is the same as trespassing (essentially; I'm no attorney). Like most free states, the vehicle is an extension of your domicile. There is no law that prevents open or concealed carry within a vehicle in Colorado.
By the way; I wasn't completely innocent in the initial confrontation. I gave the guy the bird; but that in no way gives him the right to commit asault against someone; or in this case attempted assault. Lesson learned; don't give someone the bird, even though that fucking pussy should be able to take it. It doesn't mean that they will.
Yeah, I was driving through Loveland one day and some gangsta tried to pass me on the right in a turn lane only. There was a car in front of me, a car behind me and he was right next to me honking his horn. So I flipped him off, and man it set him off. He got up next to me and was screaming that he was going to kill me, so I told him to "eat my ass" (it just came out that way I was a little nervous that he was going to crash his low-rider into me) He followed me all the way to Longmont. I had my .45 sitting on the seat the whole time just in case, but at the last minute before I thought I was going to need to pull over so he would not know where I was going or where I live he turned around and went back toward Loveland.
Long story short, I find that it is both more fun and a little safer to just act retarded when someone starts to road-rage on you. Or act like you do not speak English, that will confuse them fur sure.
sneakerd
08-12-2012, 07:51
When I get the bird, I have an instant reaction that makes me want to press on the accelerator and catch up. I really have to fight that. I always think later that I should have gotten a plate number and called them in for road-rage, but I'm never that quick.
theGinsue
08-12-2012, 08:08
If you really want to piss someone off, don't flip them the bird, give them a friendly little wave instead. It seems to send most folks into a major tizzy as if you just told them their mamma was the best $5 whore you've ever had.
Glad it all worked out for you Birddog. Even better that you didn't have to pull the trigger on this guy!
I had an asshole go all road rage on me the other day.. and the finger was involved...
I'm turning left from Broadway (south) onto Belleview (east).. Outside turn lane. I get the green arrow to go, the car in front of me goes I'm about 15' or so behind him. This asshat in a little mini-van looking 'work van' turns right on red between me and the guy in front of me. Needless to say had he been driving a smart car w/ an LT1 he might have pulled it off.. I lay on the brakes and the horn... he apparently realized he's an idiot and changed lanes.
I proceed on belleview shaking my head and wondering why people are so fucking stupid, when he goes and renews my faith in the utter stupidity in this world.. he gets in the same lane as me, and falls back.. only to accelerate as fast as the mini-van will take him, heading right for me, cutting around me at the last second, I'm sure nascar fans would be proud.. but the mere inches he passed my car by, and I got over into oncoming traffic's lanes pissed me off a bit.. Finger extended I let him know how I felt.
I got into the other lane and attempted to calm down. I was willing to let it go, maybe he found out he had herpes from his cheating whore wife that morning.. who knows.. he got back in front and started to slow down. A little smile crept across my face as I was hoping he'd come to a complete stop and get out of the car.. I dialed 911 to report him. Damn are they useless..
Better sense must have gotten a hold of him. He sped up and headed south on University.. Never heard back from any PD about it, they don't give a shit unless something happens.
I just can't believe how fucking stupid people are. I'm the last one to back down if cornered, and while I may look 'small' I promise you'd regret it.
Birddog1911
08-12-2012, 08:34
Hoser, as far as my injury; I was descending the bar trail and the labs left the main trail. I was trying to find them and wound up sliding off of a snow covered boulder, free fell somewhere around 15 feet, and broke my ankle, 5 bones in the foot, and damaged a couple of ligaments and cartlilage.
theGinsue
08-12-2012, 08:42
Holy....OUCH!
It must have been a real joy getting the rest of the way down the trail.
Hoser, as far as my injury; I was descending the bar trail and the labs left the main trail. I was trying to find them and wound up sliding off of a snow covered boulder, free fell somewhere around 15 feet, and broke my ankle, 5 bones in the foot, and damaged a couple of ligaments and cartlilage.
Having shattered my ankle I feel for you...
Holy....OUCH!
It must have been a real joy getting the rest of the way down the trail.
+1 on the ouch.. and a middle finger to you (for the hell of it) TheGinsue [ROFL1]
There should be "The Bird" smiley for shitz n gigz! Or would that cause too many probs? lol!
Whistler
08-12-2012, 09:35
I flipped the bird at a guy tailgating and driving aggressively turned out was a North Carolina State Trooper with an attitude in an unmarked. Had a liquor license pending at the time and his BS charges cost me $500 to get tossed. Bad timing couldn't fight it without risking thousands on the license.
If I remember the ticket correctly "displaying a gesture clearly intended to incite a hostile response" and "open container" (sealed bottle, he opened it).
I don't flip the bird at anybody any more.
Bailey Guns
08-12-2012, 10:01
There should be "The Bird" smiley for shitz n gigz! Or would that cause too many probs? lol!
Ask, and ye shall receive.
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMHpnqJ2kATmMHPubJF7q6CVijZtJ9P haWyrmzo0IwzT5iTP3Aaw
blacklabel
08-12-2012, 10:04
I do my best to keep a low profile, especially when I'm carrying. I'd hate to make a poor decision and put myself in a situation where my handgun has to get involved.
Ask, and ye shall receive.
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMHpnqJ2kATmMHPubJF7q6CVijZtJ9P haWyrmzo0IwzT5iTP3Aaw
[Ban2] Oh man, I got more smileys in my little window than I thought. No birdie though!
So if I have my little girl in the back seat and some Jackhole cuts me off and then goes slow as hell causing me to slam on the brakes causing me to flip them off basically saying F-You using my freedom of speech and they decide to stop and get out of their car initiating a physical confrontation and I feel I need to act in a self defense manner I could be held accountable for being the aggressor? Not looking to argue just a question, doesn't make sense to me. I love flippin the bird when flippin the bird is needed but if the gesture is returned or some things said I could care less about beating that persons ass. I will usually just give a wave and a smile after.
10mm-man
08-12-2012, 11:03
I had an asshole go all road rage on me the other day.. and the finger was involved...
he gets in the same lane as me, and falls back.. only to accelerate as fast as the mini-van will take him, heading right for me, cutting around me at the last second, I'm sure nascar fans would be proud.. but the mere inches he passed my car by, and I got over into oncoming traffic's lanes pissed me off a bit.. Finger extended I let him know how I felt.
This reminds me of a time I lived in Co Springs, I owned a 1997 Trans-am. The car had excellent brakes and acceleration (4wheel disk and 350). So anyway I am cruising on the highway and slow down to get off the ramp.
Speed limit is 35 , so I am going 35. A piece of shit older El Comino is riding my ass, he slows down then speeds up acting like he is gonna ram me, So I slam the brakes. His expression and reaction were priceless watching him trying to turn to avoid me. I punch the gas a bit or he is gonna slam into me.
He goes around (as fast as he can) flips me off and slams on his brakes right in front of me. Smoke comes off his tires and all! I was only going 35 so stopping wasn't an issue. Anyway we come up to the stop signs and he takes off, I look in my rear view mirror and my heart drops as I see two undercover patrol guys. I am thinking maybe I am gonna get pulled.
I roll down the window and say; hey did you see what that ass hole did? Go get him... They agree and gesture me to move out of there way. Two blocks down the road as I drive by, he is pulled over and I smile and flip him off!!
[ROFL1][ROFL2][Beer]
[Driver][PoPo]
This reminds me of a time I lived in Co Springs, I owned a 1997 Trans-am. The car had excellent brakes and acceleration (4wheel disk and 350). So anyway I am cruising on the highway and slow down to get off the ramp.
Speed limit is 35 , so I am going 35. A piece of shit older El Comino is riding my ass, he slows down then speeds up acting like he is gonna ram me, So I slam the brakes. His expression and reaction were priceless watching him trying to turn to avoid me. I punch the gas a bit or he is gonna slam into me.
He goes around (as fast as he can) flips me off and slams on his brakes right in front of me. Smoke comes off his tires and all! I was only going 35 so stopping wasn't an issue. Anyway we come up to the stop signs and he takes off, I look in my rear view mirror and my heart drops as I see two undercover patrol guys. I am thinking maybe I am gonna get pulled.
I roll down the window and say; hey did you see what that ass hole did? Go get him... They agree and gesture me to move out of there way. Two blocks down the road as I drive by, he is pulled over and I smile and flip him off!!
[ROFL1][ROFL2][Beer]
[Driver][PoPo]
[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]
Good Stuff!
Great-Kazoo
08-12-2012, 11:30
I cannot write about one incident. i will say the Local PD said next time something like it happened, to call them vs. what i did. They said round these parts what the aggressor did is vehicular assault AND they have no problem arresting someone for it.
Hoser, as far as my injury; I was descending the bar trail and the labs left the main trail. I was trying to find them and wound up sliding off of a snow covered boulder, free fell somewhere around 15 feet, and broke my ankle, 5 bones in the foot, and damaged a couple of ligaments and cartlilage.
Sounds like someone is having a fun summer. http://www.planetsrk.com/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/custom/batch1/crutch.gif
There was a similar sounding case, north of Boulder, a year or so ago. Road rager follows a car. At some point the front car pulls over and RR jumps out for a confrontation, only to be met with the business end of a handgun. Rather then reflect on how his actions almost cost him is life, Mr. RR cries to the police that someone pulled a gun on him. Some people's children.
SideShow Bob
08-12-2012, 11:51
I know for a fact that a hole bunch of you all here have cussed at and flipped me off while I am at work.....I am too busy working to notice the COAR-15 stickers on your vehicles, but know they are there..............[Tooth]
Great-Kazoo
08-12-2012, 11:56
Sounds like someone is having a fun summer. http://www.planetsrk.com/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/custom/batch1/crutch.gif
There was a similar sounding case, north of Boulder, a year or so ago. Road rager follows a car. At some point the front car pulls over and RR jumps out for a confrontation, only to be met with the business end of a handgun. Rather then reflect on how his actions almost cost him is life, Mr. RR cries to the police that someone pulled a gun on him. Some people's children.
IIRC that story was from an arfcom gut, again IIRC
IIRC that story was from an arfcom gut, again IIRC
Don't go to arfcom, so don't know. This was in the Daily Camera and I think the Times Call.
avoidance deterring and deescilation
Aloha_Shooter
08-12-2012, 18:10
Regardless about legality, you have a responsibility. Don't incite anger.
+1
armstrong001
08-12-2012, 18:44
I just wave or blow kisses to assholes now. I think that pisses them off more than the bird does. I had one guy cut me off, then when i blew him a kiss, brake check me. I'll bet he feels much more manly now...
Byte Stryke
08-12-2012, 18:49
avoidance deterring and deescilation
No Way....
Suppressive fire all the way!
[ROFL1]
spqrzilla
08-12-2012, 19:15
A couple of weeks ago, a clown in a lifted Ford F150 decided that I wasn't going fast enough for him in the fast lane of I70. (I was keeping up with the cars ahead) And that he was entitled to run up my bumper and try to intimidate me out of the fast lane. After moving aside a mile or two down, I let him pass me, and then returned to the fast lane and flicked my high beams at him from behind.
He decided that he wanted to screw with me, slammed on his brakes from in front of me, dropped to 25 mph in the fast lane and started jinking like he wanted to come after me. then came to a complete stop and started to open his driver door - in the fast lane of I70.
I had my .45 in my lap by then and was just about to put my initials in his tail gate in .45 inch holes when he somehow got an IQ improvement and drove off.
He got awful close.
There are some real loons out there.
SideShow Bob
08-12-2012, 20:15
There is no "Fast Lane" the speed limit applies to all lanes of traffic. There is also a "Keep right except to pass Law in Colorado.
spqrzilla
08-12-2012, 20:46
There is no "Fast Lane" the speed limit applies to all lanes of traffic. There is also a "Keep right except to pass Law in Colorado.
None of which has anything to do with my comment.
I'm not a lawyer so I really don't know what would happen in court if you gave someone the finger prior to engaging them but I figure that it will be one less variable to stress about should it ever come up. Courteous to everyone is my policy.
spqrzilla
08-12-2012, 21:02
I'm not a lawyer so I really don't know what would happen in court if you gave someone the finger prior to engaging them but I figure that it will be one less variable to stress about should it ever come up. Courteous to everyone is my policy.
Advice that flipping someone off by itself constitutes becoming the aggressor in a confrontation is wrong in a legal sense, but its not a bad point for a CCW instructor to make in that one does not merely flip someone the finger but usually accompanies it with verbal abuse that clouds the question of who is escalating a confrontation.
Ok you flipped a guy off then pulled a gun on him. [BooHoo]
How would that go over if the other guy was packin. You gave him the bird and then pulled a gun on him. He pulls his gun and actually pulls the trigger. Your not around to give your side of the story. His side of the story is sounding pretty good by this time.
Maybe if your going to go around flipping people off you should leave your gun at home. I know your little story seems to have gone over well, but I just threw up in my mouth a little. Are you French. One our GI's to boot. WTF
I'd say I'm sorry now, but this is disgusting.
RonMexico
08-13-2012, 08:17
Ok you flipped a guy off then pulled a gun on him. [BooHoo]
How would that go over if the other guy was packin. You gave him the bird and then pulled a gun on him. He pulls his gun and actually pulls the trigger. Your not around to give your side of the story. His side of the story is sounding pretty good by this time.
Maybe if your going to go around flipping people off you should leave your gun at home. I know your little story seems to have gone over well, but I just threw up in my mouth a little. Are you French. One our GI's to boot. WTF
I'd say I'm sorry now, but this is disgusting.
Agreed
10mm-man
08-13-2012, 08:52
but I just threw up in my mouth a little.
GROSS!![ROFL2][ROFL3]
Since when does being a GI give you a free pass to be a dick?
10mm-man
08-13-2012, 12:38
Since when does being a GI give you a free pass to be a dick?
dude that law was passed last year, keep up! [ROFL1]
mevshooter
08-13-2012, 14:48
There is no "Fast Lane" the speed limit applies to all lanes of traffic. There is also a "Keep right except to pass Law in Colorado.
And you are also legally obligated to keep up with the flow of traffic within reason, even if that means exceeding the speed limit to a certain degree.
If the speed limit is 55, everyone is going 65, you can be found as a road hazard.
Laws are tricky.
10mm-man
08-13-2012, 14:50
And you are also legally obligated to keep up with the flow of traffic within reason, even if that means exceeding the speed limit to a certain degree.
If the speed limit is 55, everyone is going 65, you can be found as a road hazard.
Laws are tricky.
I know a buddy of mine who got pulled for speeding; his defense was he was keeping up with traffic. Judge said it's not a law to keep up with traffic and fined him.
two words: MOVE OVER!!
mevshooter
08-13-2012, 14:55
I know a buddy of mine who got pulled for speeding; his defense was he was keeping up with traffic. Judge said it's not a law to keep up with traffic and fined him.
two words: MOVE OVER!!
That is why I said laws are "tricky." Your buddy got a ticket for keeping up with traffic, another P.O. having a bad day might cite you for being a road hazard.
They have a bit of "interpretive creativity" in these scenarios.
10mm-man
08-13-2012, 14:59
That is why I said laws are "tricky." Your buddy got a ticket for keeping up with traffic, another P.O. having a bad day might cite you for being a road hazard.
They have a bit of "interpretive creativity" in these scenarios.
Not if your in the right lane going the min....
Birddog1911
08-13-2012, 16:07
First, you might get off of your high horse a little. I've spent the last 20 years serving myself.
Secondly, I've said from the beginning that I was wrong for giving him the bird. But the guy ran more than 100 yards to catch up to me, as I was leaving the area. I was stopped in my vehicle due to traffic in front of me, and the next thing I see is him charging the vehicle. I pulled my handgun to protect myself from an unknown danger. Had he had a firearm, things would have been much worse.
You can go back to feeling self righteous now.
Ok you flipped a guy off then pulled a gun on him. [BooHoo]
How would that go over if the other guy was packin. You gave him the bird and then pulled a gun on him. He pulls his gun and actually pulls the trigger. Your not around to give your side of the story. His side of the story is sounding pretty good by this time.
Maybe if your going to go around flipping people off you should leave your gun at home. I know your little story seems to have gone over well, but I just threw up in my mouth a little. Are you French. One our GI's to boot. WTF
I'd say I'm sorry now, but this is disgusting.
I've been reading this and thought I would say my peace, and to the OP, good thing nothing bad happened to you or you didn't have to use your weapon. All the LEOs I know advise against flipping anyone off. In a driving situation, depending on the cop stopping you, you can be cited for instigation. It doesn't matter what the other guy did, if you get spotted flipping the bird to another driver and stopped that's what can possibly happen. I know I've done some single digit communication in some instances, but I mostly now refrain from it and just curse them vocally in my car. YMMV.
Birddog1911
08-13-2012, 16:20
To add a little more to the story. The 3 officers that I had interaction with said yes, I shouldn't have flipped him off; I told them that I was stupid for doing it. The officers also all said that they would have responded precisely as I did. He was in no way justified for what he did afterwards. Remember; he gave at least two false statements to the police in the investigation.
Yes, I have kept a tight clamp on my middle finger since then.
To add a little more to the story. The 3 officers that I had interaction with said yes, I shouldn't have flipped him off; I told them that I was stupid for doing it. The officers also all said that they would have responded precisely as I did. He was in no way justified for what he did afterwards. Remember; he gave at least two false statements to the police in the investigation.
Yes, I have kept a tight clamp on my middle finger since then.
I'm willing to bet, had things gone really south for this situation, they would have said you pulling the trigger was justified as well. Seriously, I don't understand why people lose control so quickly these days and get their panties in a twist. It's a middle finger! I guess the other guy was thinking "Him flip me off!? How dare he!" [Shake]
Glad everything didn't spiral out of control for you!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.