US launches immigration reform

[Ed_S]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19271594
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18467759

Guess he does whatever he wants 'Prosecutorial discretion is the executive's prerogative to apply policies without a debate or approval from the legislative branch.'

[Ronin13]

He's trying to cut down on immigrant unemployment... What about citizen unemployment. I guess those of us here legally don't count. Fuck this guy. [Mad]

[Pancho Villa]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

You want to complain about the govt messing with the economy, that's great, I'm right there with you. If you then want the govt to go around...messing with the economy, by trying to keep the US out of the international labor market, and expect that to work out hunky dory? Please.

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? That'll work great! [Bang]

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.

[Ronin13]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally." [Bang]

[Sharpienads]

Whoever wrote that article spelled "program" and "favoring" wrong.

[Tooth]

[BPTactical]

[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19271594 'Prosecutorial discretion is the executive's prerogative to apply policies without a debate or approval from the legislative branch.'

Translation: "I AM the HNIC and will do whatever I want"



Jesus we need somebody to jerk the reins on this guy......

[Big Wall]

Is it just me, or do we hae to rely on the BBC more and more to hear these type stories?

[Sharpienads]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

There's a reason New York isn't the poorest place in the US.

You want to complain about the govt messing with the economy, that's great, I'm right there with you. If you then want the govt to go around...messing with the economy, by trying to keep the US out of the international labor market, and expect that to work out hunky dory? Please.

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? That'll work great! [Bang]

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.


I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally." [Bang]

You guys are both right, IMO. You shouldn't be afraid of more people (workers), and in a free market, more workers is a good thing. But that is with all else being equal, which all other things definitely are not equal. There's other factors at play besides just an influx of people.

[Irving]

Well, I can't really see this as being a hot topic issue, so I just wanted to get my name in here before this thread faded into obscurity.

[Sharpienads]

This actually irritates me because it's a bandaid on a very serious issue, which is the crappy US visa system inventivizing coming here illegally. Obvious political ploy and doesn't solve the core issue, but I guess better than nothing.

lol, I know it's just a typo, but you might be on to something here... Inventing an incentive = inventivizing! Brilliant!

[Teufelhund]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

[Sharpienads]

This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

Marx tried to scare people into being against immigration based on the idea that there are only a finite number of jobs. Thus, anybody that immigrated would take a job away from somebody else. This isn't true, because if you have more people, those people would require services (more food, more houses, etc) and new job opportunities are created.

Marx was also against emmigration, and wanted to confiscate all property from anybody that wanted to leave (kind of like how NY wants to tax people that move out of the state).

ETA: I guess the main fallacy is that, like money, the number of jobs is not finite. Money and jobs can both be created without taking away from somebody else.

[kanekutter05]

The economy, contrary to Marx, is not a big pie and adding more people do the mix does not "take away jobs" but adds value.


This concept escapes me. One of my smarter friends has said the same thing you did, and I would like to understand it. Care to explain?

It seems to me that if you have a finite number of job openings, adding more eligible job applicants to the pool simply increases the number of people out of work. There's obviously something I don't get about how it is a value-add.

If you are coming from the business side of the economy then the larger the workforce the better. More candidates for jobs means you can be more selective and get someone with the skills you really need/want, not just a body to fill a chair. This also can drive up wages because companies need to be competitive in pay in order to attract the best candidates.

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).


I'm sorry, I don't understand this logic. So if we have 100 job openings in one town, and there are 150 people out of work (logic assumes that 50 people will still be out of work) and then all of a sudden you add in 100 more people that are legally eligible to work, that someone adds value? So 100 jobs, 250 workers, somehow that's going to prompt people to all of a sudden go, yes, we have more workers! YAY! No. Wrong. Unless it is financially possible and beneficial, jobs won't be suddenly created because the work force grows. If people want to become legal citizens in this country, let them do it the right way, not weasel them in because "they've been here for a while illegally." [Bang]

+1 preach it Ronin! [Beer]

[Rucker61]

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).



Just what jobs to you think these folks going to be getting?

[BushMasterBoy]

I bet they just collect the fee of $465 then stamp "DENIED"...next!

[Sharpienads]

BUT, when you add hundreds of thousands of people who are in this country illegally into that pool it suddenly becomes very damaging to the whole situation. Instead of companies paying competitively in order to attract talent...workers begin negotiating a lower and lower pay in order to get the job over another in the out-of-work pool (which is now vastly bigger).

Right, immigration needs to flucuate with the economy. If you have a huge influx of people during a recession (like right now), it's only going to make things worse.


Just what jobs to you think these folks going to be getting?

Most likely low paying, low skilled jobs where employers can pay them under the table, possibly pay them less than what their labor is actually worth, and not have to pay taxes.

[Ed_S]

Why not just legislate that everyone make $100/hr? .

Be damned if I'm taking a salary cut!


I'm all for simplifying the immigration process, as long as you're here to pay taxes etc. But we make it so easy for illegals to come and stay here and bleed the economy dry.

[CapLock]

Being a brick mason I could tell you how I'm affected by illegal immigration.[Rant1]

I'm told wages have sky rocketed in Arizona for masons. I wonder why? [Bang]

[Sharpienads]

Being a brick mason I could tell you how I'm affected by illegal immigration.[Rant1]

I'm told wages have sky rocketed in Arizona for masons. I wonder why? [Bang]

You're just mad because you got flipped off today [Tooth]

[HoneyBadger]

You're just mad because you got flipped off today [Tooth]

Too soon! [ROFL1]

[ScooterCO]

I dont see haw we can loose... If there are 100 illegals here and they are will to spend $465 to become legale, those must be the ones already working... Duh... Then we can make them pay taxes as well!
I think that math works... as long as the $465 is required to come for their own pocket and not some dem (my money) slush fund.

[Irving]

This program does not help people become legal. It is only a deportation deferment for two years. It comes across to me as a pure political gesture just before the election.

[HoneyBadger]

I dont see haw we can loose... If there are 100 illegals here and they are will to spend $465 to become legale, those must be the ones already working... Duh... Then we can make them pay taxes as well!
I think that math works... as long as the $465 is required to come for their own pocket and not some dem (my money) slush fund.

Make them pay taxes? Are you out of your flipping mind?![ROFL1]



This program does not help people become legal. It is only a deportation deferment for two years. It comes across to me as a pure political gesture just before the election.

Ding ding ding! Winner!

[DSull]

hmmmm damn the Constitution and Bill of Rights full speed ahead.

[Rucker61]

This program does not help people become legal. It is only a deportation deferment for two years. It comes across to me as a pure political gesture just before the election.

Well, shah.

[Irving]

Now that I am not on my phone, let me elaborate on why this is purely a political nod and wink to Hispanics to increase votes.

We hardly deport anyone now. If we did, we wouldn't have stupid debates about building walls all the time. The risk of being deported when you are in school, law abiding, and have a job is next to nil. I believe that illegals take part in FAR less government benefits than people cry about. Taking part in benefits creates a paper trail and can get you noticed.

Illegals tend to be sensitive to documenting themselves for the government. Right now, with little to zero chance of deportation, why in the WORLD would an illegal fill out a whole form about themselves, send it directly to the government, AND pay $500 for it? The program has specifically said that it does not aid in getting citizenship, and is purely a deportation deferral for two years. A lot can happen in two years, especially when there is an election only a few months away. If illegals are afraid that a hard line Republican gets into office this term, there is no way in heck they are all going to line up and send in their personal information, AND PAY FOR IT, so the new guy has a neat little list of people to start deporting.

Someone made the comment about the gov. accepting checks and denying. Unlikely. I see them rubber stamping everything that comes through and cashing any checks, then just filing the info away in some basement. It is almost like it is a way to trick illegals into sending in money for Obama for the POTUS race.