When would you draw if you CCW?

[Eggysrun]

So today I witnessed a crime and had the opertunity to stop the person from getting away, as i was walking into king soopers a lady was leaving and a man was chasing after her to get her attention, i saw him show her a badge and he escorted her back inside. She went with him and then noticed her fleeing for the door. The security guy kinda put his hands up and didn't make a physical attempt to stop her (maybe company policy so dude doesn't get hurt) but it was obvious to me what was going on and I asked the guy twice

"I have a gun, do you want me to stop her?"

I had to ask the second time because I think he was caught off guard, I had my gun in my backpack so it wasn't aparent I was armed. He declined, let her go he said and I went on my business.

I'm just wondering what standards the guys who CCW/OC have for drawing their weapon especially in a public place. My rule of thumb is protect myself from danger, and if a crime is occuring if someone needs help or is being injured it's fair game to stop what's happening.

[Great-Kazoo]

Were you personally or someone else in imminent danger, fear for your life, no other means of escape. Flight or flight ?????????
If none of the above, your even suggesting to someone else.
"I have a gun, do you want me to stop her?"
Is IMHO foolish and irresponsible.
That is my opinion anyone wants to correct or debate what i wrote, go ahead.
In the mean time i cannot suggest strongly enough you READ THEN READ AGAIN
CRS statues regarding use of deadly force.

here is part of it. The rest is up to you to research.

18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person.


Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use of imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:





The actor has reasonable ground to believe and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or
The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203.

[dan512]

Yeah, I have to say the only time the gun is coming out is under threat of great physical harm or death to me or someone close by. No money or property is worth enough to end a life, and then finish mine out in jail.

[jslo]

Pretty sure LE wouldn't draw in that situation either.

[beast556]

OP I hope you have a good attorney on speed dial. Only time my weapon is getting pulled is if my kids,wife,or my life is threatened. I cant believe you were going to pull your gun over a shoplifting incident, not smart at all.

[spqrzilla]

So today I witnessed a crime and had the opertunity to stop the person from getting away, as i was walking into king soopers a lady was leaving and a man was chasing after her to get her attention, i saw him show her a badge and he escorted her back inside. She went with him and then noticed her fleeing for the door. The security guy kinda put his hands up and didn't make a physical attempt to stop her (maybe company policy so dude doesn't get hurt) but it was obvious to me what was going on and I asked the guy twice

"I have a gun, do you want me to stop her?"

I had to ask the second time because I think he was caught off guard, I had my gun in my backpack so it wasn't aparent I was armed. He declined, let her go he said and I went on my business.

I'm just wondering what standards the guys who CCW/OC have for drawing their weapon especially in a public place. My rule of thumb is protect myself from danger, and if a crime is occuring if someone needs help or is being injured it's fair game to stop what's happening.

You simply have zero business volunteering to help a private security guard detain a shoplifter.

Zero. Nada. None. Not merely don't draw, don't help. And certainly don't offer deadly force. If the shoplifter was beating the crap out of the security guard, we'd have a different discussion.

You are not paid to decide whether to detain a shoplifter, you don't have liability insurance covering you if the shoplifter sues you for assault and/or unlawful arrest/imprisonment.

[Tinelement]

This.....


Yeah, I have to say the only time the gun is coming out is under threat of great physical harm or death to me or someone close by. No money or property is worth enough to end a life, and then finish mine out in jail.

And more importantly this..


OP I hope you have a good attorney on speed dial. Only time my weapon is getting pulled is if my kids,wife,or my life is threatened. I cant believe you were going to pull your gun over a shoplifting incident, not smart at all.

[bigun1962]

jim sums it up. Nice job with your explanation.

[kwando]

Hope this is a joke!

Where did you take your class or your CCW??

[TEAMRICO]

D: All of the above!

Now a nice CLOTHESLINE woulda been good!

[Great-Kazoo]

Hope this is a joke!

Where did you take your class or your CCW??

Most definitely not from me, or anyone else here, Hopefully.

[10mm-man]

Hope this is a joke!

Where did you take your class or your CCW??

I would assume he does not have one; hence carrying in a back back, so he can say he was transporting...... My $.02

If by chance you do have one, please give it up until you read the CRS over and over again....[Bang]

[Adawg38]

In a shop lifting incident....let the security guard or police handle it. If my girl, daughter or myself life's in danger or possible bodily harm I will not hesitate to draw my gun and stop the pos threat.

[Bailey Guns]

"I have a gun, do you want me to stop her?"

Just curious... How were you going to stop this person by using your gun?

[Bailey Guns]

I would assume he does not have one; hence carrying in a back back, so he can say he was transporting...... My $.02


Not sure I understand this. Without a permit, how is this not "carrying a firearm concealed on or about his or her person"?

[10mm-man]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mm-man
I would assume he does not have one; hence carrying in a back back, so he can say he was transporting......


Not sure I understand this. Without a permit, how is this not "carrying a firearm concealed on or about his or her person"?


09-25-2011, 12:07 AM

BushMasterBoy
Varmiteer

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Pueblo
Posts: 573
Colorado Law
The law states "on or about your person". Such law means stashed in your belt, hidden under a jacket, or even strapped to your ankle. The weapon is readily available for you to use. If it is difficult to get the firearm out of the backpack " it is not readily available! In otherwords, if you have to take the backpack off your back, unzip the backpack, take the container out of the backpack, and then remove the firearm from the container, it is LEGAL. If you can reach around , retrieve the firearm readily and have it in your hand it is ILLEGAL, unless you have a permit from the State of Colorado for concealed carry. See below for actual legislated law and court decisions:

Title 18 Criminal Code (Colorado Revised Statutes)

Article 12

18-12-105

1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:


(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or

(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or

(c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.

(d) (Deleted by amendment, L. 93, p. 964, § 1, effective July 1, 1993.)

(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:

(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or

(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or

(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or

(d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or

(e) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1624, § 46, effective August 6, 2003.)

(f) A United States probation officer or a United States pretrial services officer while on duty and serving in the state of Colorado under the authority of rules and regulations promulgated by the judicial conference of the United States

Recognition of § 13 of art. II, Colo. Const. Section 13 of art. II, Colo. Const., has limiting language dealing with defense of home, person, and property. These limitations have been recognized by the general assembly in the enactment of this section, which restricts the right to bear arms in certain circumstances, while permitting in other circumstances the carrying of a concealed weapon in defense of home, person, and property, and also when specifically authorized by written permit. People v. Blue, 190 Colo. 95, 544 P.2d 385 (1975).


The words "about the person" means sufficiently close to the person to be readily accessible for immediate use. People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).

"Concealed" means placed out of sight so as not to be discernible or apparent by ordinary observation. People ex rel. O.R., 220 P.3d 949 (Colo. App. 2008).

The scope of subsection (2)(b) is clarified in § 18-12-105.6, which indicates the general assembly's intent that local ordinances on carrying weapons in private vehicles be preempted only insofar as they conflict with the provisions of § 18-12-105.6. Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).

The local ordinance concerning carrying a weapon in a private vehicle is not preempted since it can be harmonized with subsection (2)(b). Trinen v. City & County of Denver, 53 P.3d 754 (Colo. App. 2002).

Pistol tucked under edge of car seat. Where uncontested evidence established that pistol was tucked under the edge of a car seat on which petitioner was sitting, where it was within his easy reach, these circumstances constitute carrying a "firearm concealed on or about his person". People in Interest of R.J.A., 38 Colo. App. 346, 556 P.2d 491 (1976).

Question of whether weapon is concealed is question of fact for the jury which should not be summarily determined by the trial judge at the time that he rules on the defendant's motion to suppress. People v. Vincent, 628 P.2d 107 (Colo. 1981).

Former subsection (2)(c) did not confer power to issue permits for carrying concealed weapons to police chiefs and sheriffs. Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).

Person receiving permit to carry concealed weapon cannot be convicted. Once a person receives a permit to carry a concealed weapon in a county or city, he may not be convicted under subsection (2)(c). Douglass v. Kelton, 199 Colo. 446, 610 P.2d 1067 (1980).

Statute as basis for jurisdiction. See People v. Pickett, 194 Colo. 178, 571 P.2d 1078 (1977).

Defendant could not be convicted of carrying a concealed weapon without the prosecution proving that defendant intended to use this short-bladed knife as a weapon. While the characteristics of an instrument may be an important factor in determining the intended purpose of an instrument, the language of the concealed weapons statute and established precedent establishes that a knife's design does not, by itself, prove that the person carrying it intended to use it as a weapon. A.P.E. v. People, 20 P.3d 1179 (Colo. 2001).

Applied in People v. Velasquez, 641 P.2d 943 (Colo. 1982); People v. Deschamp, 662 P.2d 171 (Colo. 1983).
Last edited by BushMasterBoy; 09-25-2011 at 12:14 AM. Reason: formatting

[275RLTW]

If you are carrying the backpack and have a firearm that is ready, it is "on or about your person." If this were not true, then every woman carrying a firearm in a purse wouldn't need a permit, not would anyone with a fanny pack. Hell, I would probably wrap a Walmart plastic bag around it in my holster and say it was in a bag but your logic. If you are carrying it...it is on or about your person; it is in your posession. This should have been covered in your CCW class.

[lead_magnet]

Pretty sure LE wouldn't draw in that situation either.

Correctomundo, maybe a Tazer but even that is pushing it in my book.

AT the very very very MOST, you might stick around the parking lot to get a plate number as she drives off, but then you run the risk of having the 3 crack heads that convinced her to go into the store to steal something coming out of the car to shoot/stab/beat the living hell out of you. Thats what the security guard is geting paid for.

Perhaps a more reasonable approach would have been to quick draw your samsung cell phone and dial 911 and tell them "I'm at such and such store and there is a lady running from the store being chased by security, she is wearing blah blah blah, adios muchachos!" then continue to pick up your center cut bacon, because it's on sale baby!

(went a little to far with that one, sorry :p )

[Bailey Guns]

If you are carrying the backpack and have a firearm that is ready, it is "on or about your person." If this were not true, then every woman carrying a firearm in a purse wouldn't need a permit, not would anyone with a fanny pack. Hell, I would probably wrap a Walmart plastic bag around it in my holster and say it was in a bag but your logic. If you are carrying it...it is on or about your person; it is in your posession. This should have been covered in your CCW class.

Exactly.

I think the key here is totality of circumstances. If you're carrying the firearm in a manner in which it can readily be used and you're in a public place it's carrying unlawfully if concealed in a backpack or similar means. If you just bought the gun from your LGS, it's in the original box, unloaded and you're walking home with the gun in your backpack, might be a different story as it would make for a stronger argument the gun was not available for immediate use. But ready to go in a purse, fanny pack, backpack, etc...is definitely on/about the person.

[Great-Kazoo]

Aside from the legalities of they way he was carrying, transporting, etc. Lets remember the OP offered to use his gun.
This is not only totally wrong, it shows once again how many gun owners have no clue.
I have meet and bs'd with the op a few times and he does not seem to be a less than honorable person. Obviously he is uneducated about CCW in CO. Hopefully he will reach out to some of the ccw instructors here or if he does have a CCW. Reconsider having it in his possession until he can become more versed with the law, including talking to a ccw attorney.


Slightly OT:
His willingness to use a gun in public or brandish a weapon as that would be one of the charges against him, is something to consider as gun owners. We have had 2-3?? threads where a few would be willing to engage a threat from 20-30-40-50 + yards, just because their manhood may have been in question [for lack of a better phrase]
Those who know me and or of the post about my brother, is a classic, text book example of someone with a gun [my brothers shooter] engaging another person with a gun [my brother] during a crime, WITHOUT a CLEAR UNDERSTANDING of who is the good guy and the bad guy.
Gun was visible, shot was fired, retired cop with gun shoots, feeling his life is in danger. As would many others.
BECAUSE he did not know my brother was LE. He presumed at that time, a threat to his life was there.

For whoever's sake be a good witness, CCW carrier or not.UNLESS the threat is a clear and present one, again reread 18-1-704

[Trigger Time 23]

Wow. That is some crazy scary stuff. Shoot to stop a shoplifter?????? Is this actually a question?

[SuperiorDG]

I can't believe you even opened you mouth. Kings has a police for their guards that they are not to used physical force to stop a shoplifter. So let them deal with the problem as they see fit.

YOUR GUN SHOULD ONLY BE USED TO PROTECT YOURS AND YOUR OWN, F EVERYBODY ELSE. YOU ARE NOT A COP. OTHERS CHOSE TO NOT CARRY, THEY ARE ON THEIR OWN AND LIVE AND DIE BY CHOICE.

[Teufelhund]

I'll agree with the majority of sentiment here and hope the OP was just trolling. Deadly force is only legally authorized in very specific defense-related scenarios. Stopping a non-violent crime is not one of those scenarios. If you had pulled your weapon on a shoplifter, you would be wearing an orange jumpsuit by the end of the day.

Never brandish, threaten, or fire warning shots. Treat your CCW like a samurai sword: do not unsheathe it unless you intend to draw blood.

[00tec]

Unless someone stealing a burrito is about to rape and murder you family. Just watch.

But I have to wonder, is this a way of obtaining a "super rent-a-cop" title?

[NightCat]

If its a crime that is either Insured or a petty loss....to hell with it.

Unless someone's life is being endangered and you have the ability to save human life...then draw.

Otherwise....keep your shit concealed and let the cops deal with it...


Unless it's someone breaking into your home....then "make my day" :D

[Great-Kazoo]

If its a crime that is either Insured or a petty loss....to hell with it.

Unless someone's life is being endangered and you have the ability to save human life...then draw.

Otherwise....keep your shit concealed and let the cops deal with it...


Unless it's someone breaking into your home....then "make my day" :D


Only if imminent threat. Deadly force to keep them from boosting your tv is another.
REMEMBER No One can beat forensic science.

[NightCat]

Only if imminent threat. Deadly force to keep them from boosting your tv is another.
REMEMBER No One can beat forensic science.

Dont give a fuck for the TV.....take my car and it's game over.

Or....I see you go towards my daughters room....

Forensics can ask me why the guy has 7 holes in his chest and the answer will be "do you have kids?"

[Great-Kazoo]

Dont give a fuck for the TV.....take my car and it's game over.

Or....I see you go towards my daughters room....

Forensics can ask me why the guy has 7 holes in his chest and the answer will be "do you have kids?"

Once again not a fear for life issue, Unless you or family member are sitting in it.

There should be no answer , dialogue, With Out an Attorney present.
All joking aside. The Anything you say can and will be used against you Can & Will.

[NightCat]

All Joking aside, I know.... but man...it be nice if we could...I hate thieves

[Great-Kazoo]

All Joking aside, I know.... but man...it be nice if we could...I hate thieves


Hate is such a harsh word.
Having a strong dislike for some piece of shit who is breathing your air, rolls off the tongue so much more eloquently.

[SouthPaw]

You should have took some cover and laid down suppresive fire.

That is a REALLY scary thought you had. What were you going to do? Point a gun at and her and tell her to stop? At no point was your life in danger or anyone else's. Even the secruity guard knew it was a bad idea...

[Eggysrun]

I'll keep my replies short and to the point.

1. I'm riding a motorcycle and for safety reasons my firearm is in my backpack in case I take a spill so I don't injure myself or others.

2. I was wrong, got it.

3. It's been 4 years since I took a class, I should do a refresher.

4. Hey did I mention I was wrong? People make mistakes.

[SouthPaw]

I'll keep my replies short and to the point.

1. I'm riding a motorcycle and for safety reasons my firearm is in my backpack in case I take a spill so I don't injure myself or others.

2. I was wrong, got it.

3. It's been 4 years since I took a class, I should do a refresher.

4. Hey did I mention I was wrong? People make mistakes.

What kind of bike do you have?

People make mistakes and this one could of ended very badly for YOU. Do yourself a favor and get in contact with Jim. He offers a good class and is local to you.

[Ronin13]

Treat your CCW like a samurai sword: do not unsheathe it unless you intend to draw blood.

Get out of my head! [LOL] This is how I have always treated my weapon and I've used this almost exact same line several times before... that really is the best advice EVER! [Beer]


Only if imminent threat. Deadly force to keep them from boosting your tv is another.
REMEMBER No One can beat forensic science.
If I perceive it to be a threat then I'll fire at will. For me, anyone who illegally enters my home I will perceive as an imminent threat and handle accordingly. I don't care if they only intend to take my TV and then go with no harm to me, I don't know what an intruder is going to do, it's not like they're predictable and I don't want to take the chance that they're lying if they were to say "I'm not here to harm you, I only came for your stuff." Nope... Don't believe you, I've seen too many instances where BGs change their mind and think "No witnesses." YMMV.

[MCarp71]

What Jim said! If anything, if she runs past you. Trip her and keep walking.[Coffee]


Were you personally or someone else in imminent danger, fear for your life, no other means of escape. Flight or flight ?????????
If none of the above, your even suggesting to someone else.
"I have a gun, do you want me to stop her?"
Is IMHO foolish and irresponsible.
That is my opinion anyone wants to correct or debate what i wrote, go ahead.
In the mean time i cannot suggest strongly enough you READ THEN READ AGAIN
CRS statues regarding use of deadly force.

here is part of it. The rest is up to you to research.

18-1-704. Use of physical force in defense of a person.


Except as provided in subsections (2) and (3) of this section, a person is justified in using physical force upon another person in order to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use of imminent use of unlawful physical force by that other person, and he may use a degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for that purpose.
Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:




The actor has reasonable ground to believe and does believe, that he or another person is in imminent danger of being killed or of receiving great bodily injury; or
The other person is using or reasonably appears about to use physical force against an occupant of a dwelling or business establishment while committing or attempting to commit burglary as defined in sections 18-4-202 to 18-4-204; or
The other person is committing or reasonably appears about to commit kidnapping as defined in section 18-3-301 or 18-3-302, robbery as defined in section 18-4-301 or 18-4-302, sexual assault as set forth in section 18-3-402 or in section 18-3-403 as it existed prior to July 1, 2000, or assault as defined in sections 18-3-202 and 18-3-203.

[Great-Kazoo]

If I perceive it to be a threat then I'll fire at will.[/B] For me, anyone who illegally enters my home I will perceive as an imminent threat and handle accordingly. I don't care if they only intend to take my TV and then go with no harm to me, I don't know what an intruder is going to do, it's not like they're predictable and I don't want to take the chance that they're lying if they were to say "I'm not here to harm you, I only came for your stuff." Nope... Don't believe you, I've seen too many instances where BGs change their mind and think "No witnesses." YMMV.

That sentence and your whole quote, when dug up by prosecuting attorneys if you actually needed to use lethal force, will have you doing an easy 3-5, no if's, ands or buts.
Your first duty is to family, safe & secure, while if possible dialing 911. next is to stay where you are until police arrive.
You going in search (room clearing) shows you were not in fear but rather looking for trouble/ confrontation.

REMEMBER Fight or Flight.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. The defendant had the opportunity to flee the scene BUT instead choose to attack, Yes ATTACK the deceased with his gun. To show how heartless the defendant is let me present parts of a statement from August 2012 taken from, you guessed it, a gun board!.
If I perceive it to be a threat then I'll fire at will.
I don't care if they only intend to take my TV
"No witnesses" Yes this is presented out of context however the rest has already convicted you. this is the icing on the cake.

Don't take what i write as a personal attack. Just remember in today's society anything the media can do to present gun owners in a negative light they will. The court of public opinion has you tried, convicted and hung, before you can make bail.

Zimmerman is an extreme example, but an example non the less.


You can take what i am saying with a grain of salt, or file it away in your memory bank, for a rainy day.

[Teufelhund]

I'll keep my replies short and to the point.

1. I'm riding a motorcycle and for safety reasons my firearm is in my backpack in case I take a spill so I don't injure myself or others.

2. I was wrong, got it.

3. It's been 4 years since I took a class, I should do a refresher.

4. Hey did I mention I was wrong? People make mistakes.

[Beer] No harm, no foul, man. Let's call it a learning experience for everyone. I am sure you're not the only one who has thought this, and I am certain there are members/lurkers here who benefited from you posting this. Thanks!

[Monky]

That sentence and your whole quote, when dug up by prosecuting attorneys if you actually needed to use lethal force, will have you doing an easy 3-5, no if's, ands or buts.
Your first duty is to family, safe & secure, while if possible dialing 911. next is to stay where you are until police arrive.
You going in search (room clearing) shows you were not in fear but rather looking for trouble/ confrontation.

REMEMBER Fight or Flight.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. The defendant had the opportunity to flee the scene BUT instead choose to attack, Yes ATTACK the deceased with his gun. To show how heartless the defendant is let me present parts of a statement from August 2012 taken from, you guessed it, a gun board!.
If I perceive it to be a threat then I'll fire at will.
I don't care if they only intend to take my TV
"No witnesses" Yes this is presented out of context however the rest has already convicted you. this is the icing on the cake.

Don't take what i write as a personal attack. Just remember in today's society anything the media can do to present gun owners in a negative light they will. The court of public opinion has you tried, convicted and hung, before you can make bail.

Zimmerman is an extreme example, but an example non the less.


You can take what i am saying with a grain of salt, or file it away in your memory bank, for a rainy day.

Uhh.. Jim.. Castle Law defeats your entire argument in the state of CO. It has been proven, regardless of intent of the intruder.

If someone is in your home, illegally and you have a fear for your life, or that they may commit a lesser crime then you are able to use any force necessary to defend your home.

There is no duty to retreat in your home, the castle laws remove this. So clearing rooms is allowed.

There are guards against you inviting someone you don't 'like' in and then killing them.. but the burden rests on the DA to prove that.

There was an instance years ago.. I think in Parker? Someone might remember better, but basically a teenager was shot and killed while breaking into a mans house.. Homeowner was never charged. Kid was drunk or something, but I think still only 15 or so..

http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/5391211.html

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31103957/detail.html

[Eggysrun]

What kind of bike do you have?


2005 Triumph Bonneville

[Great-Kazoo]

Uhh.. Jim.. Castle Law defeats your entire argument in the state of CO. It has been proven, regardless of intent of the intruder.

If someone is in your home, illegally and you have a fear for your life, or that they may commit a lesser crime then you are able to use any force necessary to defend your home.

There is no duty to retreat in your home, the castle laws remove this. So clearing rooms is allowed.

There are guards against you inviting someone you don't 'like' in and then killing them.. but the burden rests on the DA to prove that.

There was an instance years ago.. I think in Parker? Someone might remember better, but basically a teenager was shot and killed while breaking into a mans house.. Homeowner was never charged. Kid was drunk or something, but I think still only 15 or so..


Good Point.
Make my Day covers your butt.

[SA Friday]

[mod]The OP question on this one has been answered. I'm gonna shut this one down.