View Full Version : NYPD cant shoot
patrick0685
08-25-2012, 17:06
I know its a amazing to think but all 9 of the injured people in the Empire State building shooting were shot by 2 cops...simply amazing
HERE (http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-180844387.html) is the story
Doesn't come as new to me.
For them its all how you look in sunglasses....
10mm-man
08-25-2012, 17:15
While "those two" dummies enjoy their paid time off(while grand jury investigates), they should go to the range!
" " = specif and not generalized.....
I had heard about the shooting in class yesterday, but didn't know what had happened. That is just.... I don't know what to say.........
The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-clad gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled around and pointed a .45-caliber pistol at them as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk.
Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times, and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol.
If you're coming up on the gunman from behind, wouldn't you already have your gun aimed and ready? Or was the gunman like Neo for a second?
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2012, 17:24
On the flip side. If the general public was more concerned about their safety than being on leno, for their million hit shooting you tube video. perhaps less folks would be hurt. A family member on nypd was on scene for the times square knife waving guy who ended up DRT tells me a somewhat different version of what transpired then media or first person reports.
Not_A_Llama
08-25-2012, 17:27
You're responsible for the rounds coming out of your gun.
Applies to everyone.
(Except anyone affiliated with Michael Bloomberg and his empire.)
speedysst
08-25-2012, 17:40
Why does the term "armchair quarterbacking" keep coming to mind as I read this thread?
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2012, 17:42
You're responsible for the rounds coming out of your gun.
Applies to everyone.
(Except anyone affiliated with Michael Bloomberg and his empire.)
Absolutely which makes this story even more disgusting.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/family-navy-vet-shot-startled-deputy-seeks-answers-193729306.html
NYPD officers not being able to shoot is nothing new. I've wondered if "spray and pray" is preached somewhere in their firearms policy.
Stress-induced firearms training should be mandatory for ALL police agencies, unfortunately not all agencies care to fit it into their budget. Now NYPD will have to foot the bill for the upcoming lawsuits that will be generated from this incident.
argonstrom
08-25-2012, 18:48
And it was reported as another "mass shooting" initially...
And Bloomberg made sure to mention "gun violence" in his first speech after this "mass shooting"...
Too bad there are no anti-gun laws in NYC - This whole tragedy could have been prevented.
I know this was no mass shooting, no use of assault weapons as they say or high cap mags. It was just 1 guy wanting to end anothers life and officers trying to stop him injuring others. My point is most damage was from the officers and New York having pretty high gun control just goes to show that gun control doesn't stop violence.
Oh yeah, I understand bullets are hard to control in high stress situations but that is what police are trained for right? To control their shooting in those situations? I think they need to head back to school.
Mick-Boy
08-25-2012, 19:16
Before you guys go getting out the torches and pitch forks maybe we should wait and see what happened.
Bullets do funny things when hitting meat and bone. Some people might have been struck by through and throughs, some people might have been hit by fragments of bullets that came apart after contact with bone. Right now, and until the investigation is complete, no one knows. Maybe we should save the armchair quarterbacking until after we actually know how things went down.
16 rounds fired by 2 cops = 1 bad guy hit 10 times and 9 bystanders injured. 3 of the hits on the 9 bystanders were full diameter hits, the rest were shrapnel type injuries. The is the most recent information...just so the facts are out there.
jerrymrc
08-25-2012, 20:37
And it was reported as another "mass shooting" initially...
And Bloomberg made sure to mention "gun violence" in his first speech after this "mass shooting"...
Too bad there are no anti-gun laws in NYC - This whole tragedy could have been prevented.
They never miss a chance to exploit but what are the odds he will make a retraction? Not going to happen because that would require him to claim something like "After the mass shooting by the NYPD" [Coffee]
Like I have tried to explain gang posting these up is no problem. It is what happens after that gives us heartburn.
As a thought just for fun....... With all the laws and restrictions that NY has do they have to bus them somewhere else to practice?[Beer]
maybe bloomberg has a reason now to buy a large quantity of ammo for his police force...they need some fucking training....
hollohas
08-25-2012, 21:16
maybe bloomberg has a reason now to buy a large quantity of ammo for his police force...they need some fucking training....
The antis just got pissed at their leader Bloomberg because he just sold hundreds of thousands of once fired police brass to the public. I'll try to find the story. But in short, they are training and Bloomberg is a moron.
But one thing you can obsoletely count on is nothing will come of this. However, if a CCW holder killed a gunman in self defense and also shot 9 others in the process, that CCW holder would be going to jail and Bloomberg would be leading the charge using it as the reason he thinks CCW should be illegal.
Story about brass sale here (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/08/city-sells-spent-nypd-gun-shells.html)
BushMasterBoy
08-25-2012, 21:22
Tony Soprano would say "fuhgeddaboudit"...
Why does the term "armchair quarterbacking" keep coming to mind as I read this thread?
Same here.
Great-Kazoo
08-25-2012, 21:41
They never miss a chance to exploit but what are the odds he will make a retraction? Not going to happen because that would require him to claim something like "After the mass shooting by the NYPD" [Coffee]
Like I have tried to explain gang posting these up is no problem. It is what happens after that gives us heartburn.
As a thought just for fun....... With all the laws and restrictions that NY has do they have to bus them somewhere else to practice?[Beer]
Oh yeah.[ROFL1] actually a few indoor & outdoor ranges on the island. Suppose to get to tour 1 or 2 next month.
In keeping with the bus them elsewhere. Took a carbine / adv pistol course with John Farnham years back. 1/2 doz shooters from England in attendance. The horror stories, then, were insane.
Bailey Guns
08-25-2012, 21:46
Took a carbine / adv pistol course with John Farnham years back. 1/2 doz shooters from England in attendance. The horror stories, then, were insane.
Was that in Fairplay? If so, I know those guys. One of them, Brian, has immigrated and lives here in Bailey now.
jerrymrc
08-25-2012, 21:57
Was that in Fairplay? If so, I know those guys. One of them, Brian, has immigrated and lives here in Bailey now.
I know a few from the Falfiles. One has a bunch of stuff here that he comes over twice a year to play with. Not everyone in Jolly old England wants to stay. [Coffee]
I've read that NYPD put 11 lb triggers in all their glocks after a few accidental discharges. That wouldn't help you hit shit in a high stress situation I wouldn't think.
If this happened in Afghanistan or Iraq these guys would be jailed forever. Since it happened here they will get paid time off. In a war zone it's not ok to accidentally shoot innocents, but here it's just a mistake.
Mick-Boy
08-25-2012, 23:09
Let's not get too crazy now. There have been one or two non-threats shot in OIF/OEF that didn't result in courts martial. Hyperbole rarely helps intelligent discussion.
I've read that NYPD put 11 lb triggers in all their glocks after a few accidental discharges. That wouldn't help you hit shit in a high stress situation I wouldn't think.
+1
cpapastr
08-26-2012, 08:11
I find it interesting as to how quickly we rise to judge those charged with defending our peace. Had someone been armed near the shooter in the Aurora theater, I wonder how many would have been hit with friendly fire while, at the same time, saving the lives of dozens. Before we criticize others, we should be honest with ourselves about our accuracy running down that NY sidewalk after the shooter in fear for or lives and the lives of the hundreds in the line of fire.
daknee_k
08-26-2012, 09:06
There's video of how it went down.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/shot_at_empire_state_building_Ycd08ZMPwDQf7r8qSKX3 yO
There's video of how it went down.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/shot_at_empire_state_building_Ycd08ZMPwDQf7r8qSKX3 yO
Was officer #2 one handing his gun? His hands never come together?
Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times, and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said.
Armchair quaterbacking or not, that guy (if he's one handing it), is a fucking moron.
So, they approach a suspect that has already killed someone, and officer #1 approaches without his gun out.... #2 has it out, but is weilding it with only one hand.... Yep, they are a perfect example of why everyone argues about training....
daknee_k
08-26-2012, 10:13
I thought it was interesting that the officer on the right, mr. one hand, had his weapon out and somewhat pointed at his partner until he moved away from the street. Totally agree on the training part. Hard to imagine what will go through your head if you are in that position.
SuperiorDG
08-26-2012, 10:20
Was officer #2 one handing his gun? His hands never come together?
Armchair quaterbacking or not, that guy (if he's one handing it), is a fucking moron.
So, they approach a suspect that has already killed someone, and officer #1 approaches without his gun out.... #2 has it out, but is weilding it with only one hand.... Yep, they are a perfect example of why everyone argues about training....
It's funny what one does when a gun is pointed at you. The only way to over come this is training, training, training.
I think officer #2 did a tac-reload when he stops shooting.
Not everyone is a bad shot with only one hand.
EDIT: After watching the video, I'd like to comment on the lack of running down any sidewalks.
Not everyone is a bad shot with only one hand.
that cop sure seemed to be....
It's funny what one does when a gun is pointed at you. The only way to over come this is training, training, training.
I think officer #2 did a tac-reload when he stops shooting.
The lead cop came upon the suspect which had already shot someone, with his gun unholstered..... Is that a good idea? The second cop already had his gun drawn, so apparently, he knew what was up.
Not everyone is a bad shot with only one hand.
EDIT: After watching the video, I'd like to comment on the lack of running down any sidewalks.
Is anyone on this site a better shot with one hand than two? < Not trying to be a smart ass, would be interesting if there were. I don't think anyone is though... especially when there are fast follow up shots..... The officer should know what he is doing, especially when opening fire on a crowded street.
I am much more comfortable using two hands than one, but I often am surprised at my accuracy at matches with only one hand.
The reason I made that comment, is that sometimes people train a certain way that makes them very proficient with only one hand. Bullseye shooters are an example.
KestrelBike
08-26-2012, 12:05
You're responsible for the rounds coming out of your gun.
Applies to everyone.
(Except anyone affiliated with Michael Bloomberg and his empire.)
I looked all over bloomberg.com yesterday for any store detailing that the 9 injured were hit by the cops, needless to say I came up short. I also loved how up until that part of the story came out, the news headlines really painted a picture that there was another mass-shooter who was out to shoot anyone they could ala aurora. "Journalism" is dead in the f'ing water.
KestrelBike
08-26-2012, 12:09
In keeping with the bus them elsewhere. Took a carbine / adv pistol course with John Farnham years back. 1/2 doz shooters from England in attendance. The horror stories, then, were insane.
Can you give any stories?
Everyone here who has had a nutcase point a gun at them from five feet away, raise your hands.
Training is good. Reality is the test. I pray that everyone here never has to take that test.
Be safe.
HBARleatherneck
08-26-2012, 13:09
i couldnt find the button for that.
Everyone here who has had a nutcase point a gun at them from five feet away, raise your hands.
Training is good. Reality is the test. I pray that everyone here never has to take that test.
Be safe.
Just my brother right after I punched him.
eneranch
08-26-2012, 13:24
Everyone here who has had a nutcase point a gun at them from five feet away, raise your hands.
Training is good. Reality is the test. I pray that everyone here never has to take that test.
Be safe.
^^ Amen to that !!!
Can't imagine the million or so things going through the minds of those Officers in THAT MOMENT. I probably would have soiled myself.
I'll wait until the facts are disclosed before I make a judgement on how well they performed
http://i.imgur.com/hwECrl.jpg
buffalobo
08-26-2012, 20:24
http://i.imgur.com/hwECrl.jpg
And alot of other agencies too.
alan0269
08-27-2012, 09:40
The thing that bothers me about the way this was reported is that they are still calling it a mass shooting and saying that the police kept the gunman from injuring other people on the street. Watching the video will show that he had his firearm put away until he was approached by the two officers, at which time he produced it from the bag he was carrying. To me that doesn't show any intent on his part to do harm to any random people that were out there - he went there to kill the former co-worker, did so, and was leaving the scene. We'll never know (unless he left a letter somewhere) if he intended on having a confrontation with the police and "committing suicide by cop" or if he had intended on killing the one person and going on with his life as if nothing had happened unless the evidence sent the police knocking on his door.
As far as the report on NYPD's casings being sold to an ammunition store, I found the following quote on Bloomberg a little hard to read:
“He believes, as do all members of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, that our purpose is to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, not keep guns or ammunition away from law-abiding citizens ... There’s a big distinction between legal dealers and illegal dealers and criminals and law-abiding citizens."
When did he change his stance? Since when does he only want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals?
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