How bad is it?

[tmleadr03]

EW5IdwltaAc

[lifeon2]

I think his outlook is too simple you need to look at each expenditure in separate pieces rather than its lumped total. I would be willing to bet that there are more ways to cut spending than he has looked at. The pens used by the potus cost between 100 and 200 dollars. http://www.cross.com/catalog/collectionlanding.aspx?cat_name=Townsend_Pen_Colle ction&gclid=CIeM-JjghbICFeaDQgodBUkAXw&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Since he uses several pens per signature http://washingtonscene.thehill.com/in-the-know/36-news/2949-lawmakers-receive-20-pens-obama-used-to-sign-healthcare-

In this case 20 lets give it an average of 150 per pen that is 3000 dollars of tax money used to sign one bill. How often he signs is not something I care to look up but you can bet his pen spending is in the millions by the time he leaves office.

It is my opinion that the budget can be balanced but it would have to be pulled apart into each separate expense which would probably take several years.

[tmleadr03]

I think his outlook is too simple you need to look at each expenditure in separate pieces rather than its lumped total. I would be willing to bet that there are more ways to cut spending than he has looked at. The pens used by the potus cost between 100 and 200 dollars. http://www.cross.com/catalog/collectionlanding.aspx?cat_name=Townsend_Pen_Colle ction&gclid=CIeM-JjghbICFeaDQgodBUkAXw&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Since he uses several pens per signature http://washingtonscene.thehill.com/in-the-know/36-news/2949-lawmakers-receive-20-pens-obama-used-to-sign-healthcare-

In this case 20 lets give it an average of 150 per pen that is 3000 dollars of tax money used to sign one bill. How often he signs is not something I care to look up but you can bet his pen spending is in the millions by the time he leaves office.

It is my opinion that the budget can be balanced but it would have to be pulled apart into each separate expense which would probably take several years.

3000 dollars is 1.875 x10 to -10 of the debt. Unless you are talking about the unfunded liabilities then it is an even smaller number.

[cstone]

This video presents a very simple explanation. Here is an even simpler solution: When you find yourself in a hole, and you do not wish to go deeper, the first action must be to stop digging.

I will never be happy about paying higher taxes. I will never be willing to pay higher taxes to support more spending and borrowing.

Stop spending what we don't have. This should stop borrowing. Once this happens, then talk to me about what I need to pay to make things right for my children.

Be safe.

[lifeon2]

I was actually using that as an example of making small cuts add up to larger cuts. I am sure there are much better examples of flat out waste spending.

[cstone]

I was actually using that as an example of making small cuts add up to larger cuts. I am sure there are much better examples of flat out waste spending.

I believe the point is that we cannot cut discretionary spending enough to fix the problem. The interest on the debt, which most of us look at as a mandatory expense, takes almost a third of our annual revenue. Without looking at operating expenses, which is where everyone agrees there is some waste and redundancy, we must look at the other mandatory expenses. The principal categories are Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and pensions for retired federal employees. If we can't agree to cut one of these three "sacred cows" then we will NEVER be able to restore fiscal solvency in this nation.

The fate of Greece will make our future look like a match next to a bonfire.

In the words of the dolphins; "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish."

[tmleadr03]

I believe the point is that we cannot cut discretionary spending enough to fix the problem. The interest on the debt, which most of us look at as a mandatory expense, takes almost a third of our annual revenue. Without looking at operating expenses, which is where everyone agrees there is some waste and redundancy, we must look at the other mandatory expenses. The principal categories are Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and pensions for retired federal employees. If we can't agree to cut one of these three "sacred cows" then we will NEVER be able to restore fiscal solvency in this nation.

The fate of Greece will make our future look like a match next to a bonfire.

In the words of the dolphins; "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish."

The answer to our problems is 42.

[spqrzilla]

The mantra "cut waste" is all well and good and there is plenty of waste. But the government is currently spending such immense amounts of money in excess of tax revenue that you could zero out the defense budget and still not be in "balance".

Large amounts of social spending will need to be dealt with by controlling its growth or outright cutting of benefits very soon.

The Democrats are hiding this fact from the American public by refusing to even pass a budget (because part of the overall budget process includes 10 year window deficit projections).

[Zundfolge]

Lets not forget the Laffer Curve.

Cut out wasteful spending AND lower tax rates and we can conceivably get back in the black.

People often confuse "increase taxes" and "increase income to the treasury". Increasing taxes will actually cause MORE of a problem because the negative impact on the economy will cause less actual dollars to flow into the treasury (basically the government will be taking a larger chunk out of a shrinking economy).

[brutal]

Lets not forget the Laffer Curve.

Cut out wasteful spending AND lower tax rates and we can conceivably get back in the black.

People often confuse "increase taxes" and "increase income to the treasury". Increasing taxes will actually cause MORE of a problem because the negative impact on the economy will cause less actual dollars to flow into the treasury (basically the government will be taking a larger chunk out of a shrinking economy).

^^This^^

I am more apt to spend money that has already been taxed reasonably once, only to be taxed again (and again) as it moves through the economy if I have MORE OF IT.

I'm the 3rd dumbest dumbshit I know when it comes to economics, but I'm pretty sure that's part of the resolution. There are many others, but this one is mine. ;-)

[tmleadr03]

The mantra "cut waste" is all well and good and there is plenty of waste. But the government is currently spending such immense amounts of money in excess of tax revenue that you could zero out the defense budget and still not be in "balance".

Large amounts of social spending will need to be dealt with by controlling its growth or outright cutting of benefits very soon.

The Democrats are hiding this fact from the American public by refusing to even pass a budget (because part of the overall budget process includes 10 year window deficit projections).

According to the video the mandatory spending is larger then the entire revenue the federal .gov takes in.

I just went to the historical tables on Whitehouse.gov and it looks like for 2011 we are only overspending by 36%. So if EVERY department took a 30% cut this year and then held to a growth in spending of 3% for the next five years and we saw an increase of revenue by 5% each year in five years we would be over spending about 255 Billion each year and still in debt by over 120 Trillion in unfunded liabilities. Not to mention our regular debt of 16 Trillion would not have gone down either.

We have unfunded liabilities of 120 Trillion. To cover that we would need to see a cut in spending of 50% and a growth of 10% a year for the next 60 years. I am not actually going to work an excell spread sheet for the real numbers to be able to cover all the debt right now. But you get the idea. It isn't happening.

[cstone]

Our government has over promised and over obligated our economic future. We cannot pay everyone we have promised to pay. IMO we have to cut spending on one or more than one of the following:

Social Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Federal Pensions
Interest on our current debt

While we are trying to figure out the cuts we need to make, lets stop borrowing more for current spending. More borrowing only increases the interest on the debt. No more debt ceiling increases!

There are no good choices, only choices which hurt different people differently. The cows are coming home and it doesn't matter whether we want them or not. To do nothing is to admit defeat and invite destruction.

[brutal]

We just need an international credit counseling service. They can get us debt free in as little as three years. [ROFL1]

[cstone]

We just need an international credit counseling service. They can get us debt free in as little as three years. [ROFL1]

It sounds funny, but I'm thinking Dave Ramsey might be a decent choice for the next Secretary of the Treasury. First thing we do is cut up all the credit cards [Coffee]

[Irving]

It sounds funny, but I'm thinking Dave Ramsey might be a decent choice for the next Secretary of the Treasury. First thing we do is cut up all the credit cards [Coffee]

Except paying off consumer debt is a whole different ball game. I haven't looked into any of this, but does anyone know if any of this debt happens to be income producing debt? Income producing debt can hold out as long as it produces income, and it doesn't really matter. I know the United States is different than real estate investing, but surely the US has some income producing debt.

[Sharpienads]

I'd be more than happy to be taken out of the social security program and promise to never be on medicare/aid and do my part to reduce the unfunded liabilities.

[tmleadr03]

Except paying off consumer debt is a whole different ball game. I haven't looked into any of this, but does anyone know if any of this debt happens to be income producing debt? Income producing debt can hold out as long as it produces income, and it doesn't really matter. I know the United States is different than real estate investing, but surely the US has some income producing debt.

The US owns stock in GM... is that what you mean?

ETA: A lot of the debt is due to money spent to keep the states solvent. Many of which would be "bankrupt" if the federal government didn't prop them up with a flow of fresh of the printing press cash.

[revor]

Think about this, we're all to blame really..
In 1970 we saved for a $2500 car, if we needed to we got a loan, something we could afford. The car was nice and would last a long time.
Now 2013, we can't actually afford the car we want, so we lease it for three years, at the same time we pay $130 for a smartphone, $125 for cable/internet/land line we pay $60 per month for Starbucks, then there's the gym, the golfing... You see they have us where they want us, spending every $ on crap, nothing tangible.... for A few hundred bucks a month we get nothing really, nothing. Just distraction, distraction so that the pols and the corporations don't have to explain what it is they're up to..
We are still fat and happy enough as a population that we only care about how
it will effect ME...
Sorry guys but we are completely screwed, we as a population should have taken the Country back after Nixon...... Check out the market VS gold systems if you want to see how to make the rich richer by gutting a countries wealth.....

[sabot_round]

This video presents a very simple explanation. Here is an even simpler solution: When you find yourself in a hole, and you do not wish to go deeper, the first action must be to stop digging.

I will never be happy about paying higher taxes. I will never be willing to pay higher taxes to support more spending and borrowing.

Stop spending what we don't have. This should stop borrowing. Once this happens, then talk to me about what I need to pay to make things right for my children.

Be safe.


I believe the point is that we cannot cut discretionary spending enough to fix the problem. The interest on the debt, which most of us look at as a mandatory expense, takes almost a third of our annual revenue. Without looking at operating expenses, which is where everyone agrees there is some waste and redundancy, we must look at the other mandatory expenses. The principal categories are Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and pensions for retired federal employees. If we can't agree to cut one of these three "sacred cows" then we will NEVER be able to restore fiscal solvency in this nation.

The fate of Greece will make our future look like a match next to a bonfire.

In the words of the dolphins; "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish."

Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!

[Irving]

The US owns stock in GM... is that what you mean?



Not quite, but kind of. People talk about the US protecting its interests abroad, but those interests, wouldn't be of interest if they were not producing money.


Think about this, we're all to blame really..
In 1970 we saved for a $2500 car, if we needed to we got a loan, something we could afford. The car was nice and would last a long time.
Now 2013, we can't actually afford the car we want, so we lease it for three years, at the same time we pay $130 for a smartphone, $125 for cable/internet/land line we pay $60 per month for Starbucks, then there's the gym, the golfing... You see they have us where they want us, spending every $ on crap, nothing tangible.... for A few hundred bucks a month we get nothing really, nothing. Just distraction, distraction so that the pols and the corporations don't have to explain what it is they're up to..
We are still fat and happy enough as a population that we only care about how
it will effect ME...
Sorry guys but we are completely screwed, we as a population should have taken the Country back after Nixon...... Check out the market VS gold systems if you want to see how to make the rich richer by gutting a countries wealth.....

None of what you said has anything to do with government though. Also, please explain how corporations are tied in with government spending. Corporations are not nearly as evil, nor powerful as scared people make them out to be.

[tmleadr03]

Not quite, but kind of. People talk about the US protecting its interests abroad, but those interests, wouldn't be of interest if they were not producing money.



None of what you said has anything to do with government though. Also, please explain how corporations are tied in with government spending. Corporations are not nearly as evil, nor powerful as scared people make them out to be.

The thing about our interests overseas we are not getting money from them. The Iraq war was touted by the left as a war for oil, did the US get oil? Nope. Companies based in the US got some? Kinda. Most of the money stayed overseas. We do not create money producing interests overseas.

[Ronin13]

The thing about our interests overseas we are not getting money from them. The Iraq war was touted by the left as a war for oil, did the US get oil? Nope. Companies based in the US got some? Kinda. Most of the money stayed overseas. We do not create money producing interests overseas.

Nope. Look at Afghanistan... We have multiple "nation building" firms over there, KBR, Dynacorp Construction, but they're being paid by the US Gov. Then you have things like the Anyak Copper mine (Afghanistan's largest, and the 4th biggest copper deposit in Asia)- who got the contract to mine there? China.

Then don't get me started on all the "little guys" we and our allies have helped out over the years. We aren't exactly collecting on that debt. I'm with Sharpie, I'll opt out of Soc Sec and Medicaid/medicare too! [Beer]

ETA: On government programs, our buddy Ron said it best:
“No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth.” -Ronald Reagan, the last great president.