View Full Version : Spring assisted knives
bside303
09-03-2012, 19:34
Can anybody confirm that all spring assisted knives are illegal in Colorado?
I hope not. I carry one every day.
Only out the front knives are illegal
Standard spring "assist" side swing knives are legal
bside303
09-03-2012, 19:48
Yeah, wasnt sure if they considered "spring swings" as a ballistic knife. I've heard, yes they are legal as long as they are 3". Then the guys at MGT told me that all spring assisted knives are illegal.
Teufelhund
09-03-2012, 20:33
I hope not. I carry one every day.
^This. I asked the same question when I bought the knife I currently carry (CRKT Ignitor) and was told as long as you have to open it manually a little bit before the spring takes over (about 1/4" in the case of this knife), it's legal. Maybe one of our resident LEOs will chime in. [Beer]
bside303
09-03-2012, 20:48
It is whomever can define Criminal Code Section 18-12-101 and how spring assisted knives fit in. Anybody know a laywer they can call?
Colorado - Criminal Code Section 18-12-101. Definitions...
(e) "Gravity knife" means any knife that has a blade
released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of
gravity or the application of centrifugal force, that when
released is locked into place by means of a button,
spring, lever, or other device... (f) "Knife" means any
dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2
inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument
capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing
wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife
carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a
hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative
defense. (j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the
blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure
applied to a button, spring, or other device in its
handle... (a.3) "Ballistic knife" means any knife that has
a blade which is forcefully projected from the handle by
means of a spring-loaded device or explosive charge.
That defination is for OTF knives. You should be good
bside303
09-03-2012, 22:12
I will ask a DPO and post his reply.
bside303
09-04-2012, 10:25
The Denver police officer i talked to, said yes they are illegal. Spyderco factory outlet in Golden, said it depends on interpetation and would say yes illegal to carry.
I called criminal laywers and they never had a case with a spring assisted knife.
The "End All" call, which i just made but got hung up on would be a call to your local police dept and talk to the Watch Commander in charge. I was just about to talk to him when he put me on hold. Sounded like he was in the bathroom peeing and the phone disconnected. I will call again later.
Teufelhund
09-04-2012, 11:06
I suppose if you have to open your knife in front of a cop, do it with two hands.
bside303
09-04-2012, 11:47
no - it is a ballistic knife according to colorado revised statutes and it is an illegal weapon
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StagLefty
09-04-2012, 11:56
^This. I asked the same question when I bought the knife I currently carry (CRKT Ignitor) and was told as long as you have to open it manually a little bit before the spring takes over (about 1/4" in the case of this knife), it's legal. Maybe one of our resident LEOs will chime in. [Beer]
That's my understanding also [Coffee]
A ballistic knife shoots the blade out. You hold the handle, and the blade shoots towards the target, through the air.
Not sure how that could be considered a ballistic knife.
bside303
09-04-2012, 11:59
So, I would say NO spring assisted knives are NOT LEGAL in the state of Colorado. If prosecuted, you would have to defend your case with the knife not being ballistic.
California State Senator Betty Karnette of the 27th District is the author and who is responsible for Bill SB 274 and the legalization of Spring Assist Knives.
Senator Karnette realized that Spring Assist Knives are extremely functional tools by law-abiding citizens and that these knives serve an important utility to many knife users, as well as firefighters, EMT personnel, hunters, fishermen, and others who utilize one-handed opening knives.
We should ask one of our Colorado Senators to do the same.
Is my spring assisted "spork" camping tool illegal then since one side is factory sharpened to a knife?...
i'll stick with my ghetto zip tie on my spyder co that allows it to catch my pants like the emerson hook. work great! I also have a spyder co endura that has the hook built in, but don't carry that daily (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=226)
UncleDave
09-04-2012, 13:02
[QUOTE=bside303;612662]no - it is a ballistic knife according to colorado revised statutes and it is an illegal weapon
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That lawyer is very mistaken, and from his answer I would say bordering on retardation. A ballistic knife shoots a blade out like a bullet by use of spring or explosive charge. They were used by the Soviet secret police and Spetsnaz. A spring assist knife fails to meet the standard for a switch blade, a gravity knife, or a ballistic knife in all 50 states too my knowledge. That was the reason for their invention.
no - it is a ballistic knife according to colorado revised statutes and it is an illegal weapon
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The Savela Law Firm, PC 250 Arapahoe Avenue, Suite 301 Boulder, CO 80302
I would get a second opinion. I just can't possibly imagine how a spring assisted opener, where the blade never disconnects from the handle, can be considered "ballistic."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife
BTW, when discussing the legality of certain items, "switchblades" included, one must clearly differentiate between simple ownership, and carry - both open and concealed. [EDIT] One must also consider any local regulations, excepting state mandated CHP rights. I don't believe knives fall under the same umbrella and local jurisdictions can impose stricter rules.
StagLefty
09-04-2012, 13:39
Is my spring assisted "spork" camping tool illegal then since one side is factory sharpened to a knife?...
Only if your sharing a meal with terrorists and waving [ROFL1]
bside303
09-05-2012, 19:30
I am still trying to get a hold of the Day Commander of the Aurora police dept.
I will let you guys know what he says.
I was at a 7-11 and I work for Century Link so I am automatically un-suspecting so I casually asked a DPD officer who was there what the law says. I opened the knife to show him and he was fine with that but to show me his rule of thumb I had to give him the knife which I attempted to do open. He was kind of uncomfortable with that (understandable, does not know me) and just asked me to put it on the dash. Then he picked it up. I was embarrassed by my stupidity. Next time leave the blade closed and let him open it. Although I knew that as a Qwest (still Qwest at the time) he would trust me and not wig out. I probably would not do that if I was just at 7-11 looking like any other dude....You SHOULD be able to casually ask a cop that but you never know the mind set of the cop you are asking either. I got a cool one.
newracer
09-30-2012, 23:05
A police officer is not the person to ask if something is legal or not.
Great-Kazoo
10-01-2012, 08:08
I was at a 7-11 and I work for Century Link so I am automatically un-suspecting so I casually asked a DPD officer who was there what the law says. I opened the knife to show him and he was fine with that but to show me his rule of thumb I had to give him the knife which I attempted to do open. He was kind of uncomfortable with that (understandable, does not know me) and just asked me to put it on the dash. Then he picked it up. I was embarrassed by my stupidity. Next time leave the blade closed and let him open it. Although I knew that as a Qwest (still Qwest at the time) he would trust me and not wig out. I probably would not do that if I was just at 7-11 looking like any other dude....You SHOULD be able to casually ask a cop that but you never know the mind set of the cop you are asking either. I got a cool one.
Because you are wearing a "Century Link" Uniform that's to be considered 'trust worthy" ???
I don't care what uniform anyone wears, an open knife is a potential threat. Would you point a gun at a cop, because you were wearing a "trust worthy uniform " to see if it was legal???
EVERYONE IS A SUSPECTED THREAT, UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE, ESPECIALLY WITH A WEAPON IN THEIR HAND.
Chase723
10-01-2012, 17:50
They are 100% legal, per the letter of the law. They meet no criteria for gravity knives, switch blades, or ballistic knives. Specifically, spring assisted knives open via manual pressure applied to a tab connected to the blade. Whereby, at a specific point the spring helps fully deploy the blade. In no way, however, does the spring or tab singularly open the knife or allow for the blade of the knife to become a ballistic projectile. The only thing you might run into is the 3.5" blade rule, which is ridiculous in its own right.
The statute is vague and confusing, and will be interpreted differently by different people, including police and prosecutors. Denver, especially, is very Draconian when it comes to enforcing knife statutes. People have been arrested for carrying lockblades that were 1/4" over legal length, although the prosecutor usually tosses out the case before it goes to court. Those knives were also Spydercos made in Golden, and even though they were clipped to pockets and clearly visible the arresting officers both claimed they were "concealed."
Chase723
10-03-2012, 17:03
Yet another reason for a CCW
StagLefty
10-03-2012, 18:54
Yet another reason for a CCW
?????? What's a CCW got to do with spring assisted knives ?
Yet another reason for a CCW
?????? What's a CCW got to do with spring assisted knives ?
Right. CO issues CHP. There are no more "concealed weapon permits." Get busted with an illegal knife and you risk losing your chp. I quit carrying my Gerber auto when I got my chp.
At one time I thought it was legal to own a switchblade or butterfly knife but not to carry one. Which makes no sense of course. There are several places that sell both butterfly and autofolder knifes in Colorado, wouldn't they be committing a crime by doing so, if they are illegal?
At one time I thought it was legal to own a switchblade or butterfly knife but not to carry one. Which makes no sense of course. There are several places that sell both butterfly and autofolder knifes in Colorado, wouldn't they be committing a crime by doing so, if they are illegal?
Not illegal to own. Illegal to carry.
Not illegal to own. Illegal to carry.
But you have to get it from the place you buy it, back to your home. I guess you just hope you dont get stopped on your way.
Frick people just buy an Emerson with a "wave" and be fricking happy. Faster than any auto knife and totally legal - no springs or gimmickry. Besides Emerson makes some damn fine knifes.
Rapid Fire Bunker
10-05-2012, 12:22
I have always been impressed with CRKT non-assist knives with how fast I can open them. I am also pretty damn fast with Spyderco non-assist. No questions of legality ever.
But there is no auto or assist knife faster than my fixed blade ESEE 3 :)
StagLefty
10-05-2012, 15:02
I have always been impressed with CRKT non-assist knives with how fast I can open them. I am also pretty damn fast with Spyderco non-assist. No questions of legality ever.
But there is no auto or assist knife faster than my fixed blade ESEE 3 :)
[ROFL1][ROFL2] Ain't that the truth [Beer]
Singlestack
10-06-2012, 16:05
[ROFL1][ROFL2] Ain't that the truth [Beer]
...or my Spyderco Fred Perrin Street Beat!
Great discussion, and I agree with others that asking a cop is pointless. Cops get laws like this wrong all the time. The only opinion that really matters is your DA or prosecutor.
Singlestack
Chase723
10-10-2012, 08:14
I'd have to check further into it, but my CCW states plainly on the front of it "CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT" it doesn't say concealed handgun permit. Also, I found this while digging around.
"Knife": means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over three and one-half inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense.
18-12-105. Unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon - unlawful possession of weapons.
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
<snip>
(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214
My understanding is if you have to touch the blade/lug attached to the blade to open it's "assisted" and legal to carry, if the opening mechanism is in the handle (button or switch) then it is an automatic and illegal to carry.
...(j) "Switchblade knife" means any knife, the blade of which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in its handle...
Frick people just buy an Emerson with a "wave" and be fricking happy. Faster than any auto knife and totally legal - no springs or gimmickry. Besides Emerson makes some damn fine knifes.
+1 on the Emerson.
I carry a utility knife, in the pocket, all the time. One of my requisites for a carry knife is that it can be opened and closed with one hand. Autos and spring assist don't fit the bill there. Don't get me wrong, I like to play with sharp pointy things too. Daily use is a different story.
A knife an "axis lock" can be set-up and maintained to operate one handed. My preferred carry is a Benchmade Griptilian.
+1 on the Emerson.
I carry a utility knife, in the pocket, all the time. One of my requisites for a carry knife is that it can be opened and closed with one hand. Autos and spring assist don't fit the bill there. Don't get me wrong, I like to play with sharp pointy things too. Daily use is a different story.
A knife an "axis lock" can be set-up and maintained to operate one handed. My preferred carry is a Benchmade Griptilian.
Hmm, I can open and close any of my SOG or Kershaw spring assist knives single handed, even off hand as that's where I learned to carry them. The SOG lock is easier to disengage than the liner locks, but they're still workable.
Not illegal to own. Illegal to carry.
I may be wrong on this, but I thought it was legal to carry as long as it was: single-edged, under 3.5" in length, and not concealed.
Of course, "concealed" seems ill-defined, and a knife clipped to your pocket and visible or carried in a leather pouch sheath may be considered "concealed" by a LEO. Here in Denver, I see a lot of people carrying 4" pocketknives clipped to their belt, and if the switchblade or butterfly knife had a clip you could conceivably carry it like that, or you could just leave it in your car.
I may be wrong on this, but I thought it was legal to carry as long as it was: single-edged, under 3.5" in length, and not concealed.
Of course, "concealed" seems ill-defined, and a knife clipped to your pocket and visible or carried in a leather pouch sheath may be considered "concealed" by a LEO. Here in Denver, I see a lot of people carrying 4" pocketknives clipped to their belt, and if the switchblade or butterfly knife had a clip you could conceivably carry it like that, or you could just leave it in your car.
Auto's are legal to carry if you're LEO, MIL, or EMTP.
Auto's are legal to carry if you're LEO, MIL, or EMTP.
Is that state law? I know different PDs and military bases have their own rules restricting what employees can carry.
agentutah
11-23-2012, 23:07
In genreal concealed knifes are illegal to carry. Correct?
ldmaster
04-11-2013, 02:53
It depends on where you live, and has to do with the "Home Rule" thing...
go to www.municode.com and see if your city has a municipal code - if it does then it MIGHT have further restrictions on what kind of knife you can carry. Denver is the most restrictive in their municipal code, IIRC any knife that can be opened with one hand by any device is illegal. I could be wrong and please, for God's sake don't cut and paste sections of code. Point is check your municipality for legality. by state code the definition of a "switchblade" is any blade released by a lever on the HANDLE (how spring assist gets around this definition that has been around since 1968).
yes, if you drive INTO a municipality with an illegal knife, you will get cited for it if caught.
California has even gone so far as to ban any knife over 1.5 inches that LOCKS into position. Clearly California is a safe place to be with such enilightened law protecting them.
But don't depend on state law to protect you, municipal code usually goes a lot farther and is generally a lot looser with definitions.
check you municipal code!!!!
lambert140
04-14-2013, 23:08
I never thought spring assist were, just out the front and anything that you can just push a button and it will open on it's own.
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