View Full Version : cu boulder get another smackdown at a town meeting
Punkface
09-05-2012, 09:09
www.colorado.edu/node/1551305
Here's another link www.denverpost.com/nationalpolitics/ci_21467463/cu-boulder-faculty-expresses-fear-over-lifting-campus
Gaaaaahh...can these idiots not accept that they must comply with the law, as well as numerous court rulings, including the Colorado Supreme Court?
Seriously, what part of "NO"is so hard for these overeducated buffoons to understand? It seems like a fairly concise word to me.
Just incase you can't use the link...
For being "Educated" this is the most moronic thing I have read today, I know its still early.
Provost’s Report: Campus Town Hall on Concealed Carry issues
September 4, 2012
By RUSSELL L. MOORE
On Tuesday, Sept. 4, my office sponsored a campus town hall meeting at the University Memorial Center on issues related to concealed carry at CU-Boulder. I want to thank the 100 or so faculty, staff, students and community members who attended the meeting and shared their concerns and observations on implementing the law at CU-Boulder.
For those of you who could not attend, I wanted to share with you the issues that were raised and some of the responses offered by the panel, which included Chancellor DiStefano, me, Senior Managing Associate Legal Counsel John Sleeman, and Commander Robert Axmacher of the CU Police Department.
The overwhelming majority of participants in the forum made it clear to us that they don’t want concealed carry handguns in the classroom and they would either like to be empowered to remove them from the classroom and laboratory, or for the campus to take actions to get CU-Boulder exempted from Colorado’s concealed carry law, as are K-12 institutions.
Chancellor DiStefano, Counsel Sleeman and I all acknowledged these concerns. We reiterated that the university had made strong arguments in court on the right of the Board of Regents to regulate concealed carry on the campus, and that the Colorado Supreme Court disagreed with us and ruled that the law applies to the campus. We also explained in the forum the process by which we arrived at exceptions to concealed carry involving contractual arrangements for housing and the purchase of tickets at public performance venues on the campus.
We further clarified that there are no legal options for faculty to nullify the law by individual actions in the classroom: the mere presence of a concealed handgun – carried by a concealed carry permit holder in accordance with the law – is not a disruption or threat sufficient to justify cancelling classes. However, a concealed carry permit does not allow the holder to display the handgun openly or to act in a fashion to intimidate or threaten others in class. The chancellor also explained that individual faculty cannot create a special “event” fee for students applied to their classroom experience, as was suggested by one faculty member at the meeting, without going through the campus’s processes to determine if such a fee is appropriate or not.
On a similar point, I clarified that the university is required by state law to admit students to the university who meet admissions criteria and further, to admit them into classrooms. There is no similar obligation to admit people into football games or campus performances. I join the chancellor in the sentiment that it is not possible or desirable for faculty to charge class or “performance” fees on top of tuition simply to limit concealed carry permit holders from the classroom. The chancellor also pledged to continue to listen to campus constituents such as the CU Student Government and other groups who desire a legislative approach on the issue from now until the legislative session, and to facilitate a conversation with Boulder and other state lawmakers following the elections in November.
Other issues raised in the town hall meeting:
Is there a way for faculty to find out who has a concealed carry permit?
No. Each Colorado sheriff maintains a list of permit holders. Information about the list may only be shared with other law enforcement agencies for law enforcement purposes. There is no publicly available list of permit holders. A permit holder is required to produce his/her permit for inspection to a law enforcement official but the law does not require him/her to show the permit to others.
Can’t someone under 21 have a concealed carry permit if they’re granted one by the local sheriff?
The law allows a person between 18 and 20 to apply to receive a temporary 90-day permit, and can have that 90-day period renewed for additional successive 90-day periods until the person turns 21, if they can prove to the local sheriff that they are in imminent physical danger and need to protect themselves. However, the Boulder County Sheriff’s office has confirmed to the University of Colorado Police that they have never granted such a temporary permit
Since certain kinds of clothing are forbidden in laboratories due to safety and flammability issues, why can’t safety be a reason to ban concealed carry firearms from lab environments?
Unfortunately, as Counsel Sleeman reminded, the law does not contain exceptions for situations like this and the university cannot enact such a provision.
What about simply refusing to comply with the law? Doesn’t the flexibility granted to the institution legislatively over the past several years allow us the flexibility to do this?
The chancellor was clear that this is not an option. To nullify a state law we would have to become private, and to do this would require a constitutional vote by the people of Colorado to remove us from the state’s charter. Further, such an action would probably prompt a lawsuit and, potentially, a preliminary injunction prohibiting the university from enforcing any rules against concealed-carry. Again, we all emphasized that we are obligated to follow the law, and that if people don’t like the law, the thing to do is to work to change it legislatively.
What should faculty and instructors do if they see a concealed weapon in their classroom?
They can call 9-1-1 if they choose, but should be detailed in what they report. Commander Axmacher of the CU Police advised that callers take great care in describing whether a gun has merely been seen, or whether it is being actively brandished or fired. CU police will respond as quickly as possible, but how quickly depends upon the nature of the threat described.
In closing, we know our faculty, staff and students have concerns about concealed carry, and today’s town hall meeting gives us a more precise sense of what those concerns are. You have my pledge that we will continue to communicate to faculty, staff and students on the issue of concealed carry and on issues of maintaining safety and security in our teaching and learning environments – which is our top priority.
68Charger
09-05-2012, 11:10
The overwhelming majority of participants in the forum made it clear to us that they don’t want concealed carry handguns in the classroom and they would either like to be empowered to remove them from the classroom and laboratory, or for the campus to take actions to get CU-Boulder exempted from Colorado’s concealed carry law, as are K-12 institutions.
I guess these are the people that are just not good enough to make it at a California university?
This IS THE LAW in Colorado- if you don't like it, leave!
SuperiorDG
09-05-2012, 11:40
Most don't understand the personal responsibility that comes with a CHP, especially those outside the gun community. After I started carrying everyday I started to look at the world differently. I became a much nicer and respectful person. No more flipping the bird for me. I guess the reason why was not just because of my new responsibility, but also it occurred to me that I might not be the only one with a gun. This professor that is so afraid of pissing his students off should probably be a little more respectful to his students. Some professors are so full of themselves that they think they can treat their students however they feel. "I am in charge of this class, you will summit."
These professors need to grow up and follow the damn law.
The last two questions piss me off:
What about simply refusing to comply with the law? Doesn’t the flexibility granted to the institution legislatively over the past several years allow us the flexibility to do this?
The chancellor was clear that this is not an option. To nullify a state law we would have to become private, and to do this would require a constitutional vote by the people of Colorado to remove us from the state’s charter. Further, such an action would probably prompt a lawsuit and, potentially, a preliminary injunction prohibiting the university from enforcing any rules against concealed-carry. Again, we all emphasized that we are obligated to follow the law, and that if people don’t like the law, the thing to do is to work to change it legislatively.
What should faculty and instructors do if they see a concealed weapon in their classroom?
They can call 9-1-1 if they choose, but should be detailed in what they report. Commander Axmacher of the CU Police advised that callers take great care in describing whether a gun has merely been seen, or whether it is being actively brandished or fired. CU police will respond as quickly as possible, but how quickly depends upon the nature of the threat described.
I wouldn't be surprised if CU PD gets a lot more calls about "person with gun" and someone is less than honest about what's going on... Liberals, especially young ones in college, are by far the dumbest breed on Earth when it comes to law and 2A. I would love for CU to just "not adhere to the law" then when they're shut down we don't have to hear about their stupid asses making the news anymore. I'm very glad CSU beat them this weekend. [Beer]
I guess these are the people that are just not good enough to make it at a California university?
This IS THE LAW in Colorado- if you don't like it, leave!
I agree 110%
johngraves2
09-05-2012, 16:46
The thing i dont get is this: there are what 30,00 students at cu? freshman are 18 years old so in general seniors are just turning 21 (i know there are older students but in general) so only a quarter of the student population are eligible for a CCW, or 7,500. Then how many actually have a permit?? add in any staff to that number that has one, how many is that??
I feel like a read something a few months back that said CU PD estimated only 250 people associated with the university has a permit. they are so upset about 250 people?
...they are so upset about 250 people?
They're liberal and the number of people with guns is greater than zero. Of course they're upset.
O2
FlexBravo
09-05-2012, 20:48
Wasn't there a guy on a bicycle robbing people at gun point near the creek a while back? Would the likely hood of this go down if the robber knew he may encounter responsible arms citizens?
I just hope there is never an accidental discharge by a CCW holder on campus. I also feel sorry for CCW holders on that campus. I would think that every student and professor there is looking everybody else up and down for that tell-tale bulge. I have seen comments in the paper by students that if they even suspect a fellow student is carrying they will call 911 and have their permit checked to see if it's "legit". Must be hell to attend that university!
johngraves2
09-05-2012, 20:51
my wife works for CU (i do to but in athletics) and she said that Bronsard hillard said CU will not be the school to challenge the law. some other state school will have to do that he said. she didn't have the press release but maybe someone else has it.
Edit: FOund it: http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_21469494?source=pkg
Also it says less than 1% of all students, staff, and faculty have a CCW.
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_21469494/boulder-wont-lobby-change-campus-gun-law
Just found this. At least they have priorities.
I have to get out of this city. I love Boulder I just can't stand the people.
Great-Kazoo
09-05-2012, 21:22
my wife works for CU (i do to but in athletics) and she said that Bronsard hillard said CU will not be the school to challenge the law. some other state school will have to do that he said. she didn't have the press release but maybe someone else has it.
Edit: FOund it: http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_21469494?source=pkg
Also it says less than 1% of all students, staff, and faculty have a CCW.
They will not challenge the law for the same reason CSU didn't. MONEY
You cannot complain about funds while you are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars going against a loosing outcome. When you tell employees Sorry no money for COL and raises, then spend untold amount on a lawsuit, yeah there's the door MF%^&*
Oh yeah, they have no clue because they are LIBERAL. Tolerance & Diversity only apply to their way of thinking NOT YOURS.
Economics 100, last year HS.
SA Friday
09-05-2012, 22:17
I'm more concerned by the origin of these professor's thought processes driving them to question and dislike the law more than anything. It's from fear and ignorance. These are NOT qualities that make decent professors, nor decent citizens. By their logic, a student with a concealed carry permit and carrying can simply pop off at any moment. Not only is this an assumption, it's completely contrary to any peer reviewed study on the matter. They are making plea's for change based on emotion and personal beliefs. Well, hell. If that's the case, lets just disregard the scientific process and while we're at it blow off the theory of evolution...
I know more than a few students carry at Auraria campus, know of at least a half dozen more in the process of getting a permit, and have seen more than a few others carrying (I suspected it at least). I know the amount is higher than 1% on that campus.
Flatline
09-06-2012, 00:33
I don't get it, I am a student at UCCS and while I know that there are some students and faculty who don't like the idea of people carrying on campus, I have yet to hear anyone suggest that the school break the law or call 911 every time they see a bulge under someone's shirt.
I know that we are the little conservative step child of the rest of the CU system (though iirc UCCS was fighting the ccw on campus thing for a while to), but what the hell is going on up there. Its the law, its been up held in court, and now it's time to get over it and move on.
I have a feeling that the only time students hear about CCW stuff is in the news, and hardly ever in the classroom.
They want to be treated the same as a public elementary school. Oh the irony.
Electromagic
09-06-2012, 07:56
Skipping the emotional arguments pro and con, I wonder why CU or other research universities don't make more of a screen and discuss the danger of having a firearm in some labs. Even non-discharged, a handgun would contaminate a clean room and set off the detectors. Discharged, beside the financial damage to equipment ($M) there could be death even if no one were hit by a bullet. This includes medical, pharma, bio, electronics and semiconductor labs. Most research in US is now Federal sponsored so a screen similar to entering a courtroom might be done.
They want to be treated the same as a public elementary school. Oh the irony.
Since the Board of Regents, et al, are acting like a bunch of spoiled 8 year olds? [ROFL1]
Discharged, beside the financial damage to equipment ($M) there could be death even if no one were hit by a bullet. This includes medical, pharma, bio, electronics and semiconductor labs. Most research in US is now Federal sponsored so a screen similar to entering a courtroom might be done.
How many CCW holders do you know who have had an ND? I can think of one- and that was horrible, but luckily no one was hurt. What's the difference between an ND on a college campus and anywhere else? What's the difference between carrying in class and at your local King Soopers? Exactly nothing. I personally don't want- when the time comes- my kids going to colleges where there is a metal detector at every door, that's more of that guilty until proven innocent crap. I understand court houses or even hospitals, unstable folks abound. But for crying out loud, let's just put a metal detector anywhere people go... [Bang] How about while we're at it, you're not allowed to have the means of defending yourself anywhere in public? Like Ben Franklin said "He who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither."
buckshotbarlow
09-06-2012, 13:57
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_21469494/boulder-wont-lobby-change-campus-gun-law
Just found this. At least they have priorities.
I have to get out of this city. I love Boulder I just can't stand the people.
An island of dreamers surrounded by a sea of reality. I lived in Hygiene for 12 years of my life, then moved to Greality. What a frig'n relief to get the hell out of boulder county. For some reason, 12 years ago i said i'll get my masters at cu, glad i did 1 semester and said the hell with this...
Great-Kazoo
09-06-2012, 16:17
Skipping the emotional arguments pro and con, I wonder why CU or other research universities don't make more of a screen and discuss the danger of having a firearm in some labs. Even non-discharged, a handgun would contaminate a clean room and set off the detectors. Discharged, beside the financial damage to equipment ($M) there could be death even if no one were hit by a bullet. This includes medical, pharma, bio, electronics and semiconductor labs. Most research in US is now Federal sponsored so a screen similar to entering a courtroom might be done.
WTF: Metal detectors i'm not sure about you new guys. ???????
Clean rooms require changing in to or wearing over clothes gowns, depending on the kind of research being done.
Level 2-4 requires changing in to scrubs, hair net, gloves and shoes or in generic terms PPE.
METAL Screening ????
FWIW: I worked in a level 3 research facility AND had a firearm in close proximity. There were a few others incl the supervisor that were armed too.
Boulder 50 SQ miles surrounded by reality.
tom
LongArmoftheLaw
09-12-2012, 10:59
Never could quite get my head around the "logic" behind the liberal-pansy ass thinking that goes through those damn hippies heads. Those who have a problem with concealed carry need to be shown how big of a responsibility it really is to carry. Their perspective will change immediately.
Never could quite get my head around the "logic" behind the liberal-pansy ass thinking that goes through those damn hippies heads. Those who have a problem with concealed carry need to be shown how big of a responsibility it really is to carry. Their perspective will change immediately.
LATL
I think in the alternate universe they exist in that they believe that gun control really works. Of course the idea of someone other than a LE carrying a gun scares the crap out them.
lol tom
LongArmoftheLaw
09-12-2012, 22:53
Poor souls haha may God have mercy on them
claimbuster
09-14-2012, 21:15
Ahhhh, the mentality of academia!
What's the old saying? Those that can, do and those that can't, teach.
The thing i dont get is this: there are what 30,00 students at cu? freshman are 18 years old so in general seniors are just turning 21 (i know there are older students but in general) so only a quarter of the student population are eligible for a CCW, or 7,500. Then how many actually have a permit?? add in any staff to that number that has one, how many is that??
I feel like a read something a few months back that said CU PD estimated only 250 people associated with the university has a permit. they are so upset about 250 people?
my wife works for CU (i do to but in athletics) and she said that Bronsard hillard said CU will not be the school to challenge the law. some other state school will have to do that he said. she didn't have the press release but maybe someone else has it.
Edit: FOund it: http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_21469494?source=pkg
Also it says less than 1% of all students, staff, and faculty have a CCW.
All, no doubt, law abiding, responsible citizens, which just makes their assumptions ridiculous.
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