View Full Version : Diesel Auto Tech Assistance - F250
theGinsue
09-13-2012, 09:46
I'm looking for assistance from anyone "in the business" that can offer advice and assistance.
I purchased a 2005 Ford F250 6.0L Diesel truck a couple of years ago which requires an emmissions inspection. Prior to this purchase, I had no experience with diesel vehicles.
During the purchasing process I was informed that the truck had been "chipped" (whether reprogrammed via a tuner, or by replacing the factory "chip", I do not know). I didn't know how significant this was until AFTER teh purchase. I was told later by a coworker that the truck would require emissions inspections and that "chipped" vehicles more often than not fail. I was told that prior to emissions inspections I would need to re-program the vehicle back to factory settings. Problem is that the seller (now out of business company) didn't provide me with the programming unit. When I returned to them to get the unit they told me they just throw them away after programming the vehicle (any wonder why they're out of business?).
Here I am with no current registration because I need an emissions inspection. I need to get the vehicle reprogrammed to factory settings before the inspection (also worried about how the vehicle will run after that). I don't know if it's just a reprogram or also replacing the "chip" with a factory chip. I need to get this thing registered ASAP. I'm sure I could take this someplace and pay a lot of money to get this stuff fixed, but I don't have a lot of discretionary money.
Anyone here "in the business" able to help with advice or assistance?
ghettodub
09-13-2012, 09:52
Just because it's chipped doesn't mean it won't pass. It's all about how much the vehicle smokes. Does it smoke a lot under full throttle? I know plenty of guys who leave their trucks programmed and still pass emissions. Any idea of what programmer was used, or the brand of chip?
I drive a 6.0l too, btw
Have you tried to test it? It may be just fine. If properly (conservatively) tuned, most actually pass.
These days, its usually not actually a chip, but a plug in tuner.
There's your problem 6.0L and not the 7.3. Sorry i'm no help
whiskeyjack
09-13-2012, 09:54
Ginsue talk to redneck he knows everything to do with fords and diesels!
mcantar18c
09-13-2012, 10:15
Chances are its an Edge or SCT. Talk to redneck, he might know how to figure it out. DFbrews also knows his stuff but he works more with big rigs, he may know too though. One of my 7.3s had an Edge programmer and passed with it on the "level 2" setting cause I forgot to change it prior to the test. Unless it smokes a ton, I'd say go ahead and give it a shot. If redneck or brews don't know and it doesn't pass, post up on Powerstroke.org.
theGinsue
09-13-2012, 10:20
First, as I mentioned before, I knew *nothing* about diesel trucks, Ford trucks, etc. before I bought this thing and didn't know the 6.0L wasn't nearly as good as the 7.3L. I've had MANY folks tell me about the error of my ways since making this purchase. To be honest though, if I could just get it certified as passed, I wouldn't have any issues with this thing at all; it's done everything I've needed - and very well at that.
I see a fair amount of smoke during a cold start up, but otherwise, I've never noticed any smoke. I won't say it isn't there, but I haven't noticed any.
Don't know anything about how the reprogramming was done. Whether by tuner or actual chip replacement. Don't know enough about the vehicle be able to tell for myself either. (It took me 2 days to find the damned filter when I changed the oil the first time).
There is only 1 place in the Spirngs that does diesel inspections and they told me the same thing others had, chipped/programmed truck tend to fail. They charge $50 for an inspection and only discount $10 if you fail and need to get re-inspected ($40 for retest).
Again, the poor/cheap side of me feels I'm damned if I do & damned if I don't.
I'll check with redneck & dfbrews.
Don't worry about it too much. I have a 2007 Chevrolet Duramax that is chipped (actually, re-programmed) and it passes emissions just fine. Even if your 6.0L won't pass emissions, they give you 10 days (I think) to make repairs and retest for free. If your truck doesn't pass, make an appointment with a Ford dealership and have them reflash the ECM. This basically means they take a stock factory tune (software) and reinstall it on your truck ECM. Kind of like reloading Windows on a computer.
It might be a wise to have a factory tune reloaded anyway just so you know. It generally only takes about 20 minutes and costs about $100 (or whatever the hourly shop rate is). I have owned many diesel trucks and I usually will have a factory tune installed because I don't know what the previous owner has down to the tuning of the ECM. With software tunes, you can actually "stack" them and cause all I kinds of issues if it isn't done correctly.
mcantar18c
09-13-2012, 10:24
I'm gonna go ahead and make an educated guess here, "most" tunes (not chips... every diesel I've seen uses a plug-in programmer, either removable or hard mounted) are set to increase the fuel input with the goal of simply smoking a crapload or produce more power, which increases the smoke levels as its only upping the fuel input and not the air. If yours doesn't smoke much other than cold starts, try it out. A $50 test is cheaper than a $300+ programmer.
jerrymrc
09-13-2012, 10:56
Speaking of I need to make an appointment. Mine is due as well. [Rant1]
I didn't think that El Paso County had emissions testing requirements?
theGinsue
09-13-2012, 11:33
They do for diesel vehicles.
Lame. If you are driving the truck and stomp on it every so often and you aren't joining the Black Cloud Militia then you are probably okay for emissions. That emissions shop is a joke not hooking you up with a retest! I know up here the one I went to was free on the retest.
ghettodub
09-13-2012, 11:43
Lame. If you are driving the truck and stomp on it every so often and you aren't joining the Black Cloud Militia then you are probably okay for emissions. That emissions shop is a joke not hooking you up with a retest! I know up here the one I went to was free on the retest.
Yeah, the diesel world is a whole different banana. They're not state run like AirCare of Colorado; they're all independent, and a lot of them are worse than others.
tmleadr03
09-13-2012, 11:45
It is all about opacity of the smoke coming out of the tailpipe. I don't remember what the standards are but if you can romp on the go fast peddle and not see smoke, you will pass.
mcantar18c
09-13-2012, 11:47
I dunno if it's worth the drive but... the name escapes me... the shop by High Country Performance 4x4 off Santa Fe and 285 is a pretty good one, I used to use them.
Also a bit of a drive, Parker Branch automotive in Highlands Ranch does Good work. Reasonable pricing. He also does emissions
dwalker460
09-13-2012, 11:53
I had my Duramax tested with the Edge in it but on the "stock" setting and it passed no issues.
I just picked up an 06 F550 6.0 myself.
The 05/06 is one of the better trucks Ford has made recently IMHO, the 7.3 is awesome but a fuel whore, and the early 6.0 can have issues. The late 6.0 is pretty damned good as long as you dont idle the hell out of the thing. The later 6.4/6.7 trucks are not as good, again, IMHO.
IF it has been flashed via an OBD2 tune and it has the stock exhaust complete with cat etc then most likely it will pass emissions. You may want to have it tested here in Denver if possible. Any Ford dealer will be able to flash the ECU to the latest Ford tune, but it will cost you a few dollars unless you have some sort of "in" or (rare) they do it for free like they are supposed to do but dont. If you do have it flashed by the dealer you might have them reflash the trans if its an auto as the trans programming on many of these trucks flat sucks.
Hope that rambling helps.
Just got my 7.3l and did emissions before I got a tuner installed. However, I don't think you will have any problems passing. I would recommend just trying it out first and then going from there. Otherwise, you are just going to get yourself all worked up and stressed over something you may not even need to do. Let us know if it passes or not and we can go from there.
blackford76
09-13-2012, 12:38
Talk to your local Ford dealer and ask them what it would take to re flash your ecm. Talk to the testing facility and ask what a retest costs in the event your truck fails, hopefully it is a free retest if whithin a certain timeframe.
That way you can test it "chipped", and know what will happen if it fails. I'd bet it will pass, since you haven't noticed much smoke.
A good service writer at the Ford dealer may be able to get it flashed for free, as you weren't the one who programmed it.
Good luck.
p.s. make sure to put in a new air filter right before testing it, and run the hell out of it the day before.
tmleadr03
09-13-2012, 12:42
I dunno if it's worth the drive but... the name escapes me... the shop by High Country Performance 4x4 off Santa Fe and 285 is a pretty good one, I used to use them.
Progressive Diesel is the one you are thinking of.
ghettodub
09-13-2012, 12:44
Progressive Diesel is the one you are thinking of.
That's where I took mine for emissions, but a bunch of buddies of mine have some really bad things to say about that shop. Stating they will do more to get the truck to fail, to force repairs that they can do, etc, but I had a good experience there, so I dunno.
mcantar18c
09-13-2012, 13:05
That's where I took mine for emissions, but a bunch of buddies of mine have some really bad things to say about that shop. Stating they will do more to get the truck to fail, to force repairs that they can do, etc, but I had a good experience there, so I dunno.
Interesting. I never had a bad experience with them, things always went smoothly and they were all polite. It's been a while since I was there last though.
tmleadr03
09-13-2012, 13:13
Interesting. I never had a bad experience with them, things always went smoothly and they were all polite. It's been a while since I was there last though.
It's where I took my Jetta once and had no issues.
soldier-of-the-apocalypse
09-13-2012, 13:27
diesel emmisions is different than gasser its not a state ran program. its ran by privatly owned companys and is verry easy to pass. My truck is a 93 and has no mufflers or cats and it has injectors and smokes like a freight train and it was well with in legal limits. I take my truck to to rocky mountain diesel emmisions off of I 76 and 96th ave. just take it there and have it tested
Talk to your local Ford dealer and ask them what it would take to re flash your ecm. Talk to the testing facility and ask what a retest costs in the event your truck fails, hopefully it is a free retest if whithin a certain timeframe.
That way you can test it "chipped", and know what will happen if it fails. I'd bet it will pass, since you haven't noticed much smoke.
A good service writer at the Ford dealer may be able to get it flashed for free, as you weren't the one who programmed it.
Good luck.
p.s. make sure to put in a new air filter right before testing it, and run the hell out of it the day before.
^^ this, try it first if it fails have a ford dealer reflash it with a stock tune they usually will only charge 25-50 bucks if at all. or get ahold of h&s they can provide you with a tuner with a stock tune on it just reflash it yourself then put a tune in it from h&s after you drive off. h&s has top notch customer service and they can answer your questions and take care of your problem, or will know who can.
http://www.hsperformance.com/powerstroke-60/
divideman
09-13-2012, 20:13
Have had multiple diesels and have not had any major trouble with emissions testing. Used Douglas County Diesel in Castle Rock.
redneck122
09-13-2012, 22:39
I'd be happy to take a look at it for you. Not sure when i'll be able to get down your way though. Shoot me a PM and i can try to talk you through some checks you can do yourself.
As blackford said. Test it and if it fails, take to the dealer and have the ECM flashed....simple as that.
Btw if there is not any plug in module under the hood that's aftermarket then your truck was tuned with a programmer thru the OBDII port...a factory flash will reset everything[Beer]
I use the guys in Parker on Pine Lane. My neighbor also works there, so if you can't get a line on a good shop and want to come up, let me know.
I think I left my Edge on #1 last time and it still passed. However, they were probably smart enough to turn it down if needed and back up where it was when I left it. :D
As to the "smoke" issue. It's been quite a while since I researched them before installing the Edge "Juice" but all programmers and loaders are different. They all play with fueling, timing, duration, boost, etc. Some can be very bad for the longevity of stock fuel injector pumps, transmissions, etc.
On the Edge, not only can I adjust between 5 power levels, but can vary the "smoke" level within each of those 5. More throttle responsiveness means more smoke and more unburnt fuel out the tailpipe. It also sucks to be on the receiving end of all that smoke. Some clown that used to tool through town with an old 12-valve with what must have been giant injectors and a 5" exhaust sprayed the front of my car with half burned diesel. Very difficult to remove from the paint and I was pretty pissed at the time.
I have to admit to cranking up the smoke on occasion if some asshat is tailgating and can't be shook. [Muaha]
Diesel Repair & Performance
6250 East Pine Lane, Parker, CO 1.7 mi N (303) 841-6527
dieselrepairparker.com (https://maps.google.com/local_url?dq=diesel+emissions&q=http://www.dieselrepairparker.com/&ved=0CBUQ5AQ&sa=X&ei=xJtSUKX_MouywAGR1YDICg&s=ANYYN7kvVDkGSaAXg_K6J1PAbxnty4_RBQ)
How do you turn up the throttle response on the edge? That's what I have now and I am still learning with it...
A couple of guys on here have already said it, but test it first then if need be have it re-flashed at the dealer. I think that it is more than $25 to do that though if I remember correctly.
The 6.0 is not a bad engine, but it is much more maintenance intensive than the 7.3. You have to keep it running and blown out or expect it to plug up and parts will fail. I would also recommend that you get it good and warmed up then take it out and blow the cob webs out before you get it tested. Not necessarily right before, but just to make sure that the previous owner did not drive around town at 800 rpm for a month before he sold it. Give it some good healthy acceleration passes under load to blow out any additional carbon then take it in. People tend to idle around in them and they develop a lot of carbon buildup in them that leads to complications in the intrinsic burning of fuel and also forms hot spots. It causes them to smoke more, but is easily fixable if you get the volumetric flow through the engine up and the temps up to burn off the deposits.
How do you turn up the throttle response on the edge? That's what I have now and I am still learning with it...
Menu
Juice config, enter
Low boost fueling, enter
For each level,
Enter, select 1(lowest) to 5(highest), enter
Menu,
Repeat for each level
menu, menu, etc back out until done
I generally keep the lower levels lowest smoke, higher levels maxed as below
Mileage 1 - 1
Tow 2 - 1
Drive 3 - 2
Race 4 - 5
Extreme 5 - 5
Only 1-3 typically and never above from a dead stop. My trans isn't built to take it. Original juice from 2005, not the "hot-juice"
Really should go through and set all the alerts and safeties unless it was setup properly for you
Hey brutal it was nice meeting you the other day. If you're ever up my way I'll let you run my Smarty on your truck...my truck runs smoother with more linear power than the edge did for me.
Thanks,
Nice to meet you as well. Heard good things about the Smarty after they got some early bugs worked out. I don't hang out on the diesel boards anymore so I don't follow the latest tech much. The best thing about the edge is that it's paid for :D
Awesome thanks for the help. Looks I need to become friends with you lol! So two more questions for ya... 1) what values do you recommend putting in for my alerts? 2)I am trying to change my ambient air temp sensor today but I can't find it in the stock locations behind the grill (from what I have read). Any ideas where it could be? I know I could try and trace it from the overhead console but that seems like a pain in the ass
Awesome thanks for the help. Looks I need to become friends with you lol! So two more questions for ya... 1) what values do you recommend putting in for my alerts? 2)I am trying to change my ambient air temp sensor today but I can't find it in the stock locations behind the grill (from what I have read). Any ideas where it could be? I know I could try and trace it from the overhead console but that seems like a pain in the ass
I could tell you what I use for my 2004.5 Dodge/Cummins. Anything else is beyond my pay grade.
If not already equipped, do you have a pyro installed? That's key.
I use alerts for speed (85 cause I'm running 4.10:1), EGT @1450 (Yes, Virginia, the HP 5.9 Cummins easily runs to that stock with a pyro in the exhaust manifold behind the #3 cylinder), and backdown for trans slip. This keeps you from toasting the TC.
I also run a manual fuel pressure gauge, and trans temp gauge. The only thing I've really done besides the Edge is add a Magtech Trans pan (+.5qt capacity) to get the temp sensor bung.
Truthfully, I would go hang out and do some research on the respective brand forums for anything more.
OP, sorry for the threadjack.
Awesome, thanks again for all the help and sorry for the thread jack.
theGinsue
09-30-2012, 21:02
I went head and made an appointment to get the emissions tested without rue flashing the computer.
Note to other diesel owners: don't wait until the end of the month to get emissions checked - it's next to mpossible to get an appointment.
As the test was running, I watched the 2 displays through the window. The blocks in the bottom screen stayed green the entire time and in the upper display the animated needle only went about 1/3 of the way out of the far left green towards the red zone - I PASSED! All that worry for nothing.
Now, to take the emissions report to the DMV and get my truck re-registered. It's my free Disabled Vet plate registration so there won't be any penalty or other fees (I hope).
I went head and made an appointment to get the emissions tested without rue flashing the computer.
Note to other diesel owners: don't wait until the end of the month to get emissions checked - it's next to mpossible to get an appointment.
As the test was running, I watched the 2 displays through the window. The blocks in the bottom screen stayed green the entire time and in the upper display the animated needle only went about 1/3 of the way out of the far left green towards the red zone - I PASSED! All that worry for nothing.
Now, to take the emissions report to the DMV and get my truck re-registered. It's my free Disabled Vet plate registration so there won't be any penalty or other fees (I hope).
nice![Beer] it would take me two hours of work to get mine to pass, I'm glad we don't have that crap down here(yet).
theGinsue
09-30-2012, 21:23
nice![Beer] it would take me two hours of work to get mine to pass, I'm glad we don't have that crap down here(yet).
?? I thought emissions on diesels was required by the state, not counties. El Paso County doesn't require gas vehicles to get tested any more, but they're talking about bringing it back.
?? I thought emissions on diesels was required by the state, not counties. El Paso County doesn't require gas vehicles to get tested any more, but they're talking about bringing it back.
nope, just up there. I saved the dpf and cats just in case though.
From the CO Dept of Revenue website:
"Diesel Emissions Program Area -
The full counties of Boulder, Jefferson, Broomfield, Denver, and Douglas, and the partial counties of Adams and Arapahoe, Larimer, Weld, and El Paso."
http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/Revenue-MV/RMV/1186648384011
I've had my diesel truck since 2004. It's a pain in the ass to do the emissions test.
theGinsue
09-30-2012, 22:04
Just 1 more reason I need to move to Teller county or further West! Preferably at least Chaffee County.
Diesel24
09-30-2012, 23:21
Yeah I'm glad I don't have to do any emissions test, my truck to say the least wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of passing lol
I loved not having emissions when I lived down in the Springs (gas truck). Now that I've moved to the metro area I have to do them. I had no idea how big of a pain in the sack emissions is. What a joke!
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